Conversations: On groups, Druids, Dungeons, Lock Out

[FURY]

The 'Lock Out' system been a pain point with druid Events and organic grouping in dungeons for a while now. And this convo came up in Discord that I though really hit alot of the points that players are feeling about the Grouping changes and could be used as a conversation starting point. What do YOU think about groups/lock out/Druid events/Dungeon grouping.

I know its a bit of a large talking space for a single thread but they are all intertwined heavily with grouping mechanics itself, so lets just see where it takes us.

Yaffy
So does anyone else dislike the new limitations on groups and the new loot system
I really hate the new loot system for sure
My friends and I keep hoping everyone we meet in dungeons dies so they can't steal our stuff
Rather than us being able to team up on bosses spontaneously

Yaffy
Also I miss 20+ man raids


EasyLivin
steal what stuff?
i dont like the new group size or loot limits, kinda turned me off combat in general


fortior
I get why they did it (tagging along with lame skills to get a bag full of 60/60 epics probably wasn't intended) but it's too much man


Yaffy
Steal boss drops
Like if my group sees another group near a boss then everyone instantly bolts for the boss to try and tag it
I'm also not 100% sure, but I think the tagging system lets groups KS solo players too[COLOR=rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.2)](edited)
Before if you met another player you could gang up on it, which was great especially when fighting bosses too strong for both of you
Now you gotta tag the boss before the other guy does
And if you try to say, make a party with strangers so you can share, that gives them a free chance to tag the boss
It's like prisoner's dilemma
Where you can both get the loot but if the other guy tries to grab it first (Because he's worried you'll try to do the same) then only one person does

EasyLivin
in theory that shouldn't happen in GK


Yaffy
But trying to always steal the loot first is the most rational decision because it always has a good outcome for you


EasyLivin
groups should be far enough away from eachother that they cannot steal bosses

Yaffy
It has the biggest effect in the crypt for sure
Where there's a lot of low level players running around yet there are tough bosses in comparison to the enemies there

EasyLivin
yea. i havent been in there with a low level after the change

Yaffy
That's also where I made the most spontaneous friends too when I started
Where I would be farming spiders but the mega spider was too tough
But then any time you bumped into another player nearby you could silently agree to team up on the mega spider
Which was great
Same with Ursula too[COLOR=rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.2)](edited)


EasyLivin
yea

Yaffy
Most of the time when I bumped into other players in dungeons it was a good thing, so I felt like I was friendly with a lot of players
Now other players are like an obstacle that's there to steal my loot


EasyLivin
i agree
druid events are terrible


Yaffy
That's my biggest gripe with the whole thing
Oh yeah, Druid events are AWFUL
Especially the Kraken one where you have to be ranged


fortior
druid events suck now. they both nerfed the dropped loot and the looting system


EasyLivin
yep


Yaffy
Or else like half of the krakens you try to tag in the water get yoinked from you by ranged characters


fortior
If they're supposed to suck, okay. But just make them free-loot so I don't have to rush and tag a mob before killing it

Yaffy
I was the tank for my party and was purely melee
But I kept getting ks'd by ranged dudes who could shoot the Krakens in the water while I had to awkwardly swim to them
It was really annoying


fortior
I don't see why bosses can't be free-loot with better loot for the killing party or something, or some sort of rule that if you do 10% of the damage you're included in the looting group


Yaffy
So now I have to run something ranged just to prevent myself from getting ks'd

fortior
This tagging system sucks


Yaffy
I've found the best strategy for stuff like Krakens or Droaches is to run around with tons of movement speed buffs


Yaffy
And spam ranged AoEs just to tag everything
Then worry about the consequences later
Even if you die you'll get something
But of course that'll piss of everyone else

fortior
I just kill one and then go do something else for a while, there's always parties running around tagging and killing everything anyway
Maybe it's selfish but it's what the current system supports. The party GUI isn't nearly good enough for even overworld events to be constrained to the tagging rule


Yaffy
The tagging system is definitely selfish
For stuff like normal mobs it's ok (In fact it's more generous than other games since you can still get exp)
But for bosses or elite mobs people should definitely be able to all get loot
Like, I'm guessing the point of the tagging system is to... prevent too many people from getting items? Or is it to prevent people from getting freebies in fights they didn't even really help in?

fortior
yeah some sort of damage threshold maybe, like at least 5 or 10% damage done


Yaffy
Or maybe it's to try and limit people to parties of 6 to make things easier to balance


fortior
I think it's to prevent manticores and all being a huge item pinata
people used to bring alts to manticores to get more loot


Yaffy
I definitely think some sort of effort based loot reward system would be better
It probably shouldn't just be DPS just because that would be annoying to heavy healers/support
They can probably use the aggro system minus influence from taunt bonuses
...Although to be honest I still don't really understand exactly how aggro works in this game
Although mind you purely going off of aggro has problems too
My build has always been around pound to slag so I can do a huge burst AoE damage at the start of fights
It would be unfair if people were denied loot just because someone can insta kill mobs
It could be time based then maybe
Where as long as you were in combat for more than 20% of the fight then you get loot
So some guy doesn't run in at the end while the boss has 5hp and get everything
I'm pretty sure there's already some sort of anti-feeding mechanic in place anyways
Because I was helping my low level friends with bosses in the crypt
And the bosses would always lock on to the lowest level friend, even when I had like 250% taunt bonus and was obviously doing more damage
We've actually taken advantage of it sometimes
Where we get the weakest friend to just sit on top of a cliff where enemies can't hit him and then everyone else hits the enemies in the back until they die
Since they absolutely refuse to stop trying to kill the squishiest party member
It's funny more than anything


fortior
"So some guy doesn't run in at the end while the boss has 5hp and get everything" I mean, backspawns take care of that IMO, and should they really gimp normal players' experience just to prevent the leechiest leeches
You can feed people items anyway by just inviting them to party now. Hell, party members don't have to do anything to get loot, so it's even easier


Yaffy
Yeah, I agree
But I'm just guessing that might have been what they were going for


fortior
They should just have gibbed the alts of people bringing alts to manticores instead of coming up with this, haha



Yaffy
Should have given manticores an AoE attack
That cleans up the blatantly low level players pretty well
Or are you talking about logging in with alts and looting the bodies before they despawn
Without even entering combat

fortior
That's what people did


Yaffy
Yeah, sounds about right
I miss the days of having like 20 level 40-50 people running through lab
Those were so fun
And a good way to bring a community together


fortior
Yeah it was cool

PS: This is a conversation for all of us, so lets all get along eh? We all just want to have fun.

Edit: the text color hold no significance to relevancy/highlighting, its just the color scheme that the text already was when I copied it