Update Discussion: August 28, 2017

[Crissa]

I think one of the biggest problem I've found with tank builds is a lack of skills that control stun, and that you have to trade Taunt for Survivability. It's tough to get the right balance, and since most of that is gear, there's no way I can use an ability to change the mix based upon need.

[Malice00]

Friend Khaylara, my guild reference is beyond the Gorgon world. I have not tried a guild in this game, but I have probed them through boards and in-game. I might not be fair to all the peeps here. It is strickly my opinion, since my guild experience are mostly from other MMO's as a member and guild leader.

To my recollect, I think the largest amount of people I have seen at sign-in daily has been 127 total. While typical it is in the 90's and during the early morning it is around 30ish (eastern standard time). Truth be told, I do not have confidence in society that there will be a shift from the norm. The guilds I have known and some good, most marginal and some really horrid, have all had a common goal. That minimal goal was socializing with some effort to contribute to the guild. I fully agree with you there.

I will be the first to acknowledge and state I am wrong if people who play this game when it goes live are of different mind set or are more mature. But let's face a fact. Most people that will buy this game are gamers who have played AC, WOW, Rift, etc. Same people just a different venue.

[kazeandi]

Sword and Lyca are pretty tanky and don't exactly kill slowly. Fire kills in one big burst, but then you're empty and whatever survives your power bar will make quick work of you.

There's no healer/support template here anyway. Not enough power and cooldowns on heals make that impossible, more so than damage. Heal skills usually have at least 1 big nuke.

[Atis]

but if they soloed at the same rate, why would solo players not all spec this?). It's not the same magnitude of problem as the fact that they have a dedicated role in group play, which does not currently function.

Tanks and healers in PG are hybrids, all their skill lines have plenty damage abilities, many monsters are vulnerable to damage types from those lines. But in other classic MMOs solo tanks and healers and their hybrid versions would at least have better sustain than DPSers. Here being solo DPSer has no drawbacks - first aid and armor patching costs are low and you cant have high DPS skill on sidebar anyway, recovery between fights is fast even with lvl5 food. Changing recovery between fights wont help - ppl will just swap to support loadout and self-heal. So best thing i can think of is to make even solo fights benefit from sustain abilities. And maybe buff tanking skills, right now BC skin buffs beat shielding.

[Roekai]

i dont even know why we are still having this conversation.

evasion, as a matter of fact, would make the mobs do* less damage, make power management more important, tanking and the trinity (group roles) more important, prolong the battles.

dont give me that RNGesus bullshit either, because as long as you aren't a glass cannon and can sustain power, health, and armor over the course of a fight (in my case, almost indefinetly) all missing is going to do is make you more aware of you power management and prolong the fight.

Eyyy VAY shun

[drivendawn]

Is this game being built with trinity mechanics? Or a build it your way and have it balanced based on in pro's and con's of each class? After all this game seems to be built to be more like AC and not EQ.

[srand]

We've just put out a quick hotfix update to address some of the bugs in the August 28 update. You can find the notes on the launcher or in the August 28 Update Notes thread.

As a sort of aside, we are actively reading your feedback. But the hotfix came first.

[ErDrick]

i dont even know why we are still having this conversation.

evasion, as a matter of fact, would make the mobs do* less damage, make power management more important, tanking and the trinity (group roles) more important, prolong the battles.

dont give me that RNGesus bullshit either, because as long as you aren't a glass cannon and can sustain power, health, and armor over the course of a fight (in my case, almost indefinetly) all missing is going to do is make you more aware of you power management and prolong the fight.

Eyyy VAY shun

If you want evasion so badly go get yourself cursed by Lord Sedgewick , it gives both you and your targets 30% miss chances. I don't think anyone else wants it.

[ErDrick]

Is this game being built with trinity mechanics? Or a build it your way and have it balanced based on in pro's and con's of each class? After all this game seems to be built to be more like AC and not EQ.

It's not about the trinity being necessary , just about it being viable to use "at all". Also about combat being more then a dps check which is all it is right now. Making a build that can defeat a hard opponent is awesome and fun, making a build that can beat said opponent then losing anyways because you simply lose the dps check isn't much fun. Also once you get all your shiny new stuff combat becomes tedious and boring in it's current form. Then the inventory management after combat is also tedious, then a few vendors run out of cash so you have to travel halfway across the world to sell stuff and that's tedious, then you level up a skill but oh guess what....you need favor and cash for the unlock, more tedium...it's just too much, combat is one of the main places where it could be spiced up.

Also, he keeps nerfing dps specs which is understandable, except that dps is also forced with no alternatives because of how the current systems works...nerfing the solution to the problem, basically, instead of the problem. ( edit here- I actually have no problem with the nerfs btw, I am currently main specced for archery and got hit the hardest, I played around with it a bit though and it's really not a big deal to me.. I mean, nerfs are going to happen in a testing phase and even in a finished product....but I also noticed chat was full of non-stop complaints about the nerfs which is what brought me here. It's not the nerfs themselves but what they are a symptom of, and why they were even noticed in the first place).

I'm not trying to get things changed in such a way as tanks and healers will be required, what I want is for combat to be engaging and fun in a group setting, nothing says you cant still use 6 dps specced people for that combat...current system of "you die in 10 seconds unless all your adversaries die before those 10 seconds" just isn't fun, mostly because no matter what other mechanics are present it's basically the same dps check in every group fight in every dungeon.

Honestly I don't even like having to say things like this in a public forum because I have nothing but the utmost respect for Citan and all the effort he puts into this game...But at the same time, I want to see it succeed, so I must speak up sometimes.... Stuff has been going in a direction of excessive tedium for a long time now ( and yes I know I keep reusing that word). He needs to know before it gets completely out of hand.

Favor grind is pretty bad but understandable ( it is my hope that when the game is more fleshed out most favor grinds will be quest lines instead of random gifting).

Inventory tetris is also pretty bad, but he knows and I am seeing some improvements to it. ( storage nubs, milk stacks now etc).

Reducing our cash flow sucks for us as testers because an obscene grind is now required to unlock and try more skills, but I can understand it because I assume he wants to see how the economy will work in the finished product, and it seems like it will be in a decent place for a long time once that happens.

But....combat is just borked as soon as you get into content that is designed for more then 1 person, and that can be fixed.

[drivendawn]

It's not about the trinity being necessary , just about it being viable to use "at all". Also about combat being more then a dps check which is all it is right now. Making a build that can defeat a hard opponent is awesome and fun, making a build that can beat said opponent then losing anyways because you simply lose the dps check isn't much fun. Also once you get all your shiny new stuff combat becomes tedious and boring in it's current form. Then the inventory management after combat is also tedious, then a few vendors run out of cash so you have to travel halfway across the world to sell stuff and that's tedious, then you level up a skill but oh guess what....you need favor and cash for the unlock, more tedium...it's just too much, combat is one of the main places where it could be spiced up.

Also, he keeps nerfing dps specs which is understandable, except that dps is also forced with no alternatives because of how the current systems works...nerfing the solution to the problem, basically, instead of the problem. ( edit here- I actually have no problem with the nerfs btw, I am currently main specced for archery and got hit the hardest, I played around with it a bit though and it's really not a big deal to me.. I mean, nerfs are going to happen in a testing phase and even in a finished product....but I also noticed chat was full of non-stop complaints about the nerfs which is what brought me here. It's not the nerfs themselves but what they are a symptom of, and why they were even noticed in the first place).

I'm not trying to get things changed in such a way as tanks and healers will be required, what I want is for combat to be engaging and fun in a group setting, nothing says you cant still use 6 dps specced people for that combat...current system of "you die in 10 seconds unless all your adversaries die before those 10 seconds" just isn't fun, mostly because no matter what other mechanics are present it's basically the same dps check in every group fight in every dungeon.

Honestly I don't even like having to say things like this in a public forum because I have nothing but the utmost respect for Citan and all the effort he puts into this game...But at the same time, I want to see it succeed, so I must speak up sometimes.... Stuff has been going in a direction of excessive tedium for a long time now ( and yes I know I keep reusing that word). He needs to know before it gets completely out of hand.

Favor grind is pretty bad but understandable ( it is my hope that when the game is more fleshed out most favor grinds will be quest lines instead of random gifting).

Inventory tetris is also pretty bad, but he knows and I am seeing some improvements to it. ( storage nubs, milk stacks now etc).

Reducing our cash flow sucks for us as testers because an obscene grind is now required to unlock and try more skills, but I can understand it because I assume he wants to see how the economy will work in the finished product, and it seems like it will be in a decent place for a long time once that happens.

But....combat is just borked as soon as you get into content that is designed for more then 1 person, and that can be fixed.

I only said so because others brought it up but can understand what you are saying. Honestly I like things you have to work for and gives you a sense of accomplishment and makes it so there is more to do instead of just skilling up in a matter of weeks. However maybe make some other ways to begin training past 50,60, and so on would be a cool thing, like epic quests or named monster hunts for that lvl. Honestly once you bring up a number of vendors favor and sell stuff in the market money isn't a problem at all but it is harder starting out so maybe make some of the early vendors easier to get favor with would be a good idea?I do like the idea of more quests for favor on npc's as you said.

As for ways to make combat more engaging besides add kite/mez would probably "IMO" be more damage nerf across the board(the world is to easy to solo and needs more danger to me) and make boss mobs (especially in dungeons) power moves more devastating to make rage management a higher priority. Also saving achieving extra lvls for battle skills at launch for when you hit the 100 cap or only allow so many as you lvl will make people less OP while going threw the lower lvl group dungeons.