Volume I: Markets & Prices

[Celler]

Don't really see point in touching skin prices especially lower down as it will impact favor returns for new players.
There are maybe what 10 players that want to farm those panthers to the point of handling the whole pack. My thoughts are frankly let them, if others want to do it so be it, it will just become less lucrative and more annoying.

I like that people can look at what we have and try to find the best way to do something. Then build towards it and get the sense of achievement that entails the first time they can do it without getting there arses chewed off.
So what if one person there can get 300k a day there vendors will run out of cash, assuming they don't bring alts into the mix there are natural barriers that stop them going too nuts.

Been playing with a friend this week that can stand in up town Rahu with Prask and play horrible music and kill 30 damn raks and boss at once, that's broken I'd imagine. But again I'm sure it was fun building toward it and seeing how far it could be pushed.

It's not as if the whole game is dependent on those players that can skin the panthers. There are only so many, when 5 people are lined up waiting to kill them how well will it work then. I would imagine none of the new influx of players is there yet and they are probably about 2 thirds are population.

If it must be changed I'd rather see something simple like those panther corpses pop after 30 seconds therefore not allowing time to loot them all. Than a lets break AOE in the game so you can only hit 4(what 4 why that 1 and not that 1) or worse still an ability that gets weaker after each use.
You will in effect weaken those AOE skills when there not being used AOE but when going through your 3rd rotation trying to whittle down that boss solo or with a weak group.

I think the Report Ladriel produced is both sound and of value, but frankly feel there are better things for most players to do than farm panthers continually and if there isn't then surely there missing out on much of the game.
To me it's like the players that say I have max leather working, I did recipe A 4500 times and recipe B 7500 times, how cools that. To me it maybe a cheap option and they have the lvls but who wants to play a game like that, not me anyways.

On the subject of money making those that think it's cool to sell items they were given freely in mass from events for stupid money make me sad. Why you would expect the poorest players to work days for something you were given for 30 seconds effort is beyond me.

Alt Use
I use my alts/mules around serb I'll pass items between them to help raise favor and gain storage etc.

But to me at least using the alts to vendor stuff repeatably to get around the traders cash caps is not a playstyle I'd use.

I know some use alts to do extra work orders, to me that sucks too.

Also having guilded alt mules getting guild points for doing fuck all and then buying cash bags, I've done it but it feels shitty.

These things seem to go against the way the game was designed. Not saying it's wrong and punishment should happen, what others are comfortable with is up to them.

I do feel though that it should be a one Toon game not a a 4 Toon game, unless there proper used alts.The hoarding tendencies of many,insane amount of useful stuff and frustrating storage tend to make that blurry at times.

[fellentier]

Don't really see point in touching skin prices especially lower down as it will impact favor returns for new players.
There are maybe what 10 players that want to farm those panthers to the point of handling the whole pack. My thoughts are frankly let them, if others want to do it so be it, it will just become less lucrative and more annoying.

I like that people can look at what we have and try to find the best way to do something. Then build towards it and get the sense of achievement that entails the first time they can do it without getting there arses chewed off.
So what if one person there can get 300k a day there vendors will run out of cash, assuming they don't bring alts into the mix there are natural barriers that stop them going too nuts.

Been playing with a friend this week that can stand in up town Rahu with Prask and play horrible music and kill 30 damn raks and boss at once, that's broken I'd imagine. But again I'm sure it was fun building toward it and seeing how far it could be pushed.

It's not as if the whole game is dependent on those players that can skin the panthers. There are only so many, when 5 people are lined up waiting to kill them how well will it work then. I would imagine none of the new influx of players is there yet and they are probably about 2 thirds are population.

If it must be changed I'd rather see something simple like those panther corpses pop after 30 seconds therefore not allowing time to loot them all. Than a lets break AOE in the game so you can only hit 4(what 4 why that 1 and not that 1) or worse still an ability that gets weaker after each use.
You will in effect weaken those AOE skills when there not being used AOE but when going through your 3rd rotation trying to whittle down that boss solo or with a weak group.

I think the Report Ladriel produced is both sound and of value, but frankly feel there are better things for most players to do than farm panthers continually and if there isn't then surely there missing out on much of the game.
To me it's like the players that say I have max leather working, I did recipe A 4500 times and recipe B 7500 times, how cools that. To me it maybe a cheap option and they have the lvls but who wants to play a game like that, not me anyways.

On the subject of money making those that think it's cool to sell items they were given freely in mass from events for stupid money make me sad. Why you would expect the poorest players to work days for something you were given for 30 seconds effort is beyond me.

Alt Use
I use my alts/mules around serb I'll pass items between them to help raise favor and gain storage etc.

But to me at least using the alts to vendor stuff repeatably to get around the traders cash caps is not a playstyle I'd use.

I know some use alts to do extra work orders, to me that sucks too.

Also having guilded alt mules getting guild points for doing fuck all and then buying cash bags, I've done it but it feels shitty.

These things seem to go against the way the game was designed. Not saying it's wrong and punishment should happen, what others are comfortable with is up to them.

I do feel though that it should be a one Toon game not a a 4 Toon game, unless there proper used alts.The hoarding tendencies of many,insane amount of useful stuff and frustrating storage tend to make that blurry at times.

A very eloquent response, I appreciate your effort. I would like to know your thoughts in regards to adding ways to make crafting more interactive. When I wrote the later portion of the article my thoughts were surrounding the game as it existed before steam release. From a more personal perspective, I prefer to garden and I find it very relaxing and one of my favorite games is harvest moon. I found weird situations where I could sell cotton for even 15~ each, veggies were going for vendor price etc - because there was simply no demand. Now, with the large flux I don't believe we will reach that same situation but I do believe that there should be some benefit to various professions that would allow players to engage the skill they enjoy without being entirely dependent on limited market desirability.

[HardRock]

Gonna need to sleep on it before I comment.

[Frei]

From today's patch notes:

- Adjusted the spawn configurations of certain monsters that could easily be exploited with area-effect attacks. Most notably, Razorslash Panthers (pets of the orcs) now have orcs spawn among them, rather than a vast field of nothing but panthers. These are stopgap measures as we continue to analyze looting rates and monster density scenarios.

[Mechant]

Don't really see point in touching skin prices especially lower down as it will impact favor returns for new players.

It can be configured that the price stay the same but the NPCs will not offer full price but only reduced for skins. So that favor will not be affected.

[sudostahp]

From today's patch notes:

Where are the patch notes? I don't see them, but that sounds like a good compromise.

Edit: Only in launcher so far. Got it.

[fellentier]

Title was changed as requested, Thanks!

[Arundel]

Nice try, guy that doesn't want panthers nerfed so he can milk them for money.

I really hate grinding as I already stated, but I have done some panthers in my time. Its honestly an obnoxious place to be because there is always some tool who insists all the mobs are his or yells at you to leave, etc. I prefer playing in zones that people know a bit less about. I have a grind spot that earns me WAY more than panthers but most can't solo it. I also don't make much money from grinding because it is boring as hell. I prefer leveling skills, exploring, playing the game with friends, and breaking various market/trade skill related things to acquire currency easily (as I already stated).

But believe whatever you want, the more you are distracted by your venomous thoughts the less time you have to focus on discovering other methods of making money beyond pulling a bunch of panthers and 1 shotting them... ah how I love MMO communities: full of people who think they know everything and make my life easier by reducing competition for me. As a final note, I don't pretend to know everything about this game but I'd say I know most of what there is to know for money making and I do know there are several methods of making money far superior to panthers. I could make 200k per day with about 20 minutes of work. Not an exaggeration, I do this daily and usually don't do much else for money making. I'm sure there are people who earn more money with similar methods but I don't need much more than that so I focus on finding new ways of playing the game, new skills to play, new builds for my character, etc. I have more concerns than how I make a few million more per month - its already overkill.

[Oqua]

You know I just could not help but point out the following:

There are a lot of thinly veiled personal attacks in this thread, and I was under the assumption that we debated the quality of ideas/facts rather then the source.

I also noticed a lot of "Panthers are camped" logic coupled with "only a few players are capable of farming panthers"....this seems in opposition

And as a player who detours through panthers quite often I rarely see anyone there, and if we go by the chart its still profitable with several people farming it.

I know it seems moot because of the recent patch but my understanding was the change was temporary until a decision could be reached.

[Asashoryu]

Regarding AE, and its impact on the reward of farming low level mobs vs. level appropriate mobs...

Assuming the issue with higher level mobs not being sufficiently rewarding for upgrade costs is addressed, why not add a variation on a trivial loot system instead to mitigate dominant low-level AE farming by grossly over-skilled players. Something of the nature where mob items (dropped loot) and corpses (harvestable loot) have an increasing chance to be forfeited when attacking with a spell or ability >N levels higher than the mob 'level'.

Arbitrary example follows:

Assume a herd of 'level 20' cows where each will have some associated loot table which governs what can possibly be dropped when killed. Additionally, its corpse can also be the target of 'autopsy' and harvested for its skin, skull or organs.

A player killing such cows with level 20/20 combat skill abilities, would have the full, normal chance of getting loot and harvestable items from them.

Another player killing such cows using one or more level 25 combat abilities might find that 1/3 of the corpses contain useless 'broken', 'burned', 'crushed' or 'shattered' loot (flavor-text variations based on skills used) instead off the normal loot items. Perhaps at this level all the corpses would still remain harvestable, however.

Yet another player starts killing cows from the same herd using level 30 combat abilities. They find that 2/3 of the corpses now contain those useless items, and 1/3 are tagged as too damaged to be harvested. Successful use of the 'autopsy' skill would reveal what powerful skill was used which caused so much damage so the player could adjust their combat skills appropriately, if desired.

Soon after, a fast-running veteran back from a month long hiatus starts farming the same herd with their powerful level 35 combat abilities. They quickly find that the last patch caused *all* of the corpses to now contain useless items and a full two thirds of corpses are further far too mangled to be harvested due to the relatively high-level combat abilities being used.

Finally, a character with the 'Pre-Alpha Tester' title walks by, sees what is happening to the fast-running veteran, realizes that their phenomenal level 40+ combat abilities will simply leave a trail of completely broken and unharvestable level 20 bovine corpses in their wake, and continues on their way... or smartly lowers the level of the combat abilities being use to allow for drops and harvestable corpses.

In summary,

It seems something like this, by discouraging over-powered camping (AE or otherwise) of low-leveled mobs, would encourage level appropriate lateral farming while preserving the sexy 'big boom' capability of level appropriate AEs. By disincentivizing such farming, it would also carry the added advantages of not rewarding high-level players for crowding out lower and mid-leveled players from low and mid-level content, as well as imposing a sort of soft penalty on mismatched skill 'power leveling'.