Multiple Guilds

[Khaylara]

Both of you guys should keep it civil so we can have a conversation otherwise the topic gets locked. Crissa is maybe not wrong because some clans/guilds do recruit only OP chars and put up some tough requirements for the members. Like "be always present for 18126735 raids, be cap level within a month, contribute with X materials" etc. Although I never join any guild of that type it's possible Crissa had experience with that particular type only so he/she would naturally have that opinion.

From my (limited) guild experience in PG there's no pressure here, in part due to the said guild mechanics, we have no PvP, no raids etc so the association in a guild is a bit more relaxed and more social (at least in the guild I'm in). Still I don't like the multiple guilds thing

[ANT3RA]

Both of you guys should keep it civil so we can have a conversation otherwise the topic gets locked. Crissa is maybe not wrong because some clans/guilds do recruit only OP chars and put up some tough requirements for the members. Like "be always present for 18126735 raids, be cap level within a month, contribute with X materials" etc. Although I never join any guild of that type it's possible Crissa had experience with that particular type only so he/she would naturally have that opinion.

From my (limited) guild experience in PG there's no pressure here, in part due to the said guild mechanics, we have no PvP, no raids etc so the association in a guild is a bit more relaxed and more social (at least in the guild I'm in). Still I don't like the multiple guilds thing

Thanks for putting me in place to some extent. Ill refrain from making snide remarks. Previous post edited (deleted).

My opinion stands though.

Guilds are a social construct in mmorpg's consisting of members who share similar interests. This is my opinion based on widely accepted fact. Like it or not.

[Crissa]

Best raiding groups I've been in were outside of any guild - let alone in-game guild - structure.

I can admit I'm wrong. A wolf guild, that's definitely a common interest and a game mechanic. Albeit not really one that benefits from the guild currently? But it's a good example of what could be done here.

I'm in favor of having more than a monolithic guild system. Maybe the guys you can meet up with on Friday night aren't the guys from your regular guild. Or aren't from one at all. Even in the real world, people are often part of more than one long-term, re-occuring group at a time.

We don't want a system that discourages people from interacting and regrouping in the open world, either. Right?

[alleryn]

I don't like the idea of being a member of multiple guilds due to guild quests, storage, etc.

I do however, love the idea of formal groups of players(let's call them clubs for example) that are independent of guilds and have no limit on members or how many you can join.
I think they would be an excellent way to solve the issues of being tied down to one guild without circumventing the limitations imposed by storage guilds, complicating guild quests or undermining guild loyalty.
As long as clubs have the following features, they would serve all the purposes of a guild without any of the aforementioned issues
- A permanent chat channel shared between all members
- A member roster
- A way to show off your membership to other players (Perhaps optional)
- Leadership positions (For recruitment, roster management and general organization)
- A means to post messages for all members to see and reference (For event organization and management)


With this system, there could be a lycan club to help organize groups for full moon quests, for new lycans to ask for help and advice, and for experienced lycans to discuss build options or what shadow feint is good for.
There could also be clubs for other purposes, like that surveying club mentioned, or a druid club, or a player run shop of sorts(I know I've seen multiple people who offer commissions for crafted items and gardening produce).
For a while, custom chat channels seemed to serves this purpose quite well, but the practice seems to have died out, perhaps because the only way to advertise custom channels is in global, which is ineffective and annoying. If there was a little club sign in Serbule where you could scroll through clubs and apply to the ones that interest you, then things like class clubs and player run shops could stick around without constantly annoying global.

This seems like a reasonable compromise to me.

[ANT3RA]

I'm in favor of having more than a monolithic guild system. Maybe the guys you can meet up with on Friday night aren't the guys from your regular guild. Or aren't from one at all. Even in the real world, people are often part of more than one long-term, re-occuring group at a time.

We don't want a system that discourages people from interacting and regrouping in the open world, either. Right?

You are absolutely correct about meeting with multiple groups of people, people outside a guild structure etc. This is perfectly normal in games, hence the need for friends lists, group finders and separate chat channels etc. There are other ways to facilitate this section of the gaming community. Being part of multiple player generated guilds is not it.

That's not what we are discussing here though.

We are discussing being part of more then one "guild" and ways to avoid watering down, by introduced game mechanics, long term, widely accepted, in game social structures. A guild in the sense of a like minded community of gamers who march under a common banner.

[Crissa]

That's not what we are discussing here though.

I don't think you've read the OP.

[Khaylara]

If I'm not mistaken OP joined 2 guilds on 2 separate chars, Holy Order and Asheron's legacy (apologies if I'm wrong). Since we all do pretty much the same thing, dungeon runs and guild quests I don't really see the point. I happen to be in HO, we run dungeons very frequently with either the AC guild or the aussie guild. Especially before the AC players joined, more often than not during server off peak times we'd always do runs with the aussie guild (timezones that pushed us together but they're also cool people). I don't see any need to join Andelas's guild though, it would be a bit overwhelming for me to do 50 people guild quests on 2 characters so obviously one of the guild quests will have to be put on the back burner (and it's not really fair for the guildmates imo).

If people want to be able to communicate with other guilds without whispering their friends my suggestion would be to go back to creating dungeons channels or, even better, use discord more

[Tagamogi]

Crissa is maybe not wrong because some clans/guilds do recruit only OP chars and put up some tough requirements for the members. Like "be always present for 18126735 raids, be cap level within a month, contribute with X materials" etc. Although I never join any guild of that type it's possible Crissa had experience with that particular type only so he/she would naturally have that opinion.

I'd argue that hardcore raiding is still a shared interest, so you still have a guild based on common interests. I consider preparing for raids and repeatedly wiping together to be an excellent community builder, too. I've been in steady raid groups and I've been in guilds, and I've usually felt far more attached to the raid group than the guild.

There is one slightly off-topic reason I like the idea of multiple guilds in PG: Storage. I occasionally play a couple alts, and I've been thinking about setting up a guild just so I can put all my common junk into a single spot that can be easily accessed by everyone from multiple locations. Of course, if I do that, I then lose the opportunity to join a guild just to be social. And storage should be a silly reason for joining a guild!

So, storage aside, I think I like the idea of clubs at least, or maybe even multiple guilds. I'm not a huge fan of guilds in general - I've seen too much drama of the form "you are a part of our guild so you can't play with those other people" or "I'm a member of your guild so you are obligated to entertain me." I guess the root problem there is really more human nature than the guilds themselves, but being able to belong to multiple organizations may make it more clear that it's ok for people to have friends and interests outside the guild. I've tried getting all the people I like to play and hang out with into the same guild before, and it just never worked that way. There was always a reason why some of my friends were in one guild and some in the other, and then I had to choose between guilds and ... eek.

I'm in favor of having more than a monolithic guild system. Maybe the guys you can meet up with on Friday night aren't the guys from your regular guild. Or aren't from one at all. Even in the real world, people are often part of more than one long-term, re-occuring group at a time.

We don't want a system that discourages people from interacting and regrouping in the open world, either. Right?

Yes, that exactly.

[Khaylara]

I wasn't referring to storage guilds (i forgot to mention that probably). I have one of those myself (I inherited one actually so if it's there i'm using it). It's not a real guild with people in it though.

In general I don't like the idea because it's exploitable in any game in a way or another. From "spying" when you have the GvG type of PvP in certain games to the credits system in PG. Join a char or two in every larger guild, pop up once in a while to get the credits and spend the credits. Hence "exploitable". I'm not saying everyone does it but it is a door that gets open when a player joins multiple guilds.

Clarifying what I said "some clans/guilds do recruit only OP chars and put up some tough requirements for the members" I didn't mean raiding etc. I meant putting pressure on the members to perform regardless of their possible real life schedule or gaming style. I personally dislike to be forced to drop what I'm doing to attend "mandatory guild stuff" and in general I don't want a "game job". Tell me "You have to be maxed by the end of the week or else" and I'm not gonna join your guild lol.

PS I have friends in P:G in pretty much all the guilds.

PPS Discord, Rita's room is waiting for you!

[Tagamogi]

Sorry, I think I wandered off-track a bit. This whole thread had me start wondering what a guild is anyway (if you get rid of the fridge ), and what I want out of a guild, and then I thought of past guild experiences, and well, in short I'm confused.

If I go with the idea that a guild is supposed to promote social interaction among players, then it seems to me that being able to belong to multiple guilds should promote more social interaction. In theory. I've never played a game with multiple guilds though; I'm sure there are pitfalls.

I agree that people could abuse belonging to multiple guilds in order to soak up benefits. Some people seem to do that with a single guild membership anyway, so I'm not sure if multiple guilds would worsen that situation. Maybe.

I do like the club idea - it seems less drastic to have multiple loose clubs than multiple guilds. But then, if you can belong to many social clubs, what additional benefits does a guild bring? So, I'm stuck again.

( My primary experience with strict guild requirements has been with raiding, so I tend to think of that automatically. I haven't really encountered mandatory guild anything outside of a raiding context - that idea seems pretty odd to me. "Join our mandatory naked level 1 character run to Rahu or be kicked out of the guild?" It seems people who enjoy that can have fun doing it whether 60% or 100% of the guild participates...)