Remove locks on elite monsters

[Procura]

Hi. I would like to suggest removing locks on elite monsters. A few days ago I got accused in public of being a griefer simply because I attacked an elite, while being in a group, that a solo player wanted to attack. I even got a guide pm me and asking me if I could work with others in a public world with limited resources. The thing is, I was already in a group, the guy wasn't saying anything and didn't even move when he was attacked by a monster so I thought he was afk anyway. And despite being in a group I'm the only one who got shamed and contacted by a moderator.

Keep in mind that I'm not naming the guy and not even blaming him. I often solo and get my elites "stolen" by groups so I understand the frustration.

This wouldn't have happened and there would have been no drama if the elite wasn't locked after someone did damage. This is especially frustrating in Druid events since I feel like I'm competing with other players instead of cooperating with them and I often see new druids complaining that they didn't get any reward. It's even more frustrating when you have a melee build and ranged players keep attacking the monster I'm running to. If the goal is to make sure elites are balanced against 6 players and to discourage more than a single group to attack the same elite, I'm not sure it's working, because last time I did the casino asassination, we were two groups tagging along together. People didn't care about the loot they just wanted to get their quest done.

I honestly don't believe that locking an elite to the group who damaged it first brings anything good to the game. Others mmos give you the loot as long as you did something and it's even already the case for world bosses so I don't see why it should be different for elites. It only brings frustration and give an advantage to ranged and mobile builds who can "tag" an elite first.

[Niph]

In the past there was no such lock, and as a result you would see giant raids with many groups trampling elites in dungeons, with everyone getting elite loot. This happened in Gazluk Keep for instance. I think lock was added explicitly to avoid that, although I don't have a reference to one of Citan's post describing the change.

Your problem is real, but this other problem was probably considered more harmful to the game, hence the lock.

[ShieldBreaker]

...
Zerging
Hey guys, love getting feedback but this thread feels very vague. It'd be really useful if people gave any sort of specifics. "Zerging" where? What levels are you? How many people are involved? Without specifics I can't give specific feedback. Here's some general feedback that I've posted before on the old forums (more or less):
: Some low-level dungeons, I honestly don't care if you bum-rush them with a million people. If a high-level player wants to organize a bunch of newbies to kill Gajus? I can't really bring myself to give a crap. It's not important in the scheme of things. But if you're doing high-level content in groups of eight or ten, that's a bigger problem, one that we're aware of and that's on our to-do list to fix.
: My current plan is to basically use EQ2's system: hunting groups have a max of 6 people, monsters become "loot-locked" (and XP-locked) to the first person or group that attacks them, and a little icon shows that the monster is locked. There are simple level-range restrictions on the group, as well, to keep a level 100 from carrying a group of 50s. This system works well for keeping the game's challenge level up. But it has down sides, mainly that you HAVE to group up in order to share loot and XP from a monster -- casual "nearby grouping" stops working. It also opens up some dumb abuse situations, like "high level guy runs to boss and keeps him perma-locked for hours just so that you that can never kill him", but in practice that's pretty easy to fix. We first disincentivize the abusive situation as best we can (e.g. after the third repeated boss kill, you get literally nothing from it), then if people continue to be dicks just for fun, we ban them.
: But as I said in the Big Dev-Info Roundup post, these plans will come later this year. The main hold up is that I need the GUI revamp to be done first. I don't currently even have a way to show a little "locked" icon overtop monsters. I could hack something in, but I'd just have to re-code it again in the new GUI. So that's wasted work, which I try to avoid.
: In the mean time, please try to exercise a little self-restraint. Yes, you can abuse the limitations of the alpha and run a dozen people through a dungeon. But you should understand what you're doing: you're twinking yourselves. There are literally no dungeons in the game right now where a group of more than 6 should be needed -- and most dungeons are balanced for a group of 3 or 4 -- so if you have more than six, you're playing on an "easy mode" that is only going to be available until I can change it.
: Why should you care? Because once you twink yourselves, your feedback becomes worthless. You don't really know how hard or easy things are, so you stop being able to help me balance content. Plus, the combat metrics generated by oversized groups are worthless, so I can't balance it that way either. I know that there are level ranges where it's hard to level, and dungeons that need work, and skills that need improvement at certain level ranges... but I don't really know where they are exactly, and I need your help -- your untwinked help -- to find and fix them.
: The game isn't finished yet, but stuff like this won't be a problem forever. In the mean time, I'd like people to use their sense of restraint. It's not hard! Try it ...
02-10-2017
https://forum.projectgorgon.com/show...=1787#post1787

Here is a bit Citan had to say about loot-locked

[Procura]

I understand Citan's explanation, although since it's from 2017 I wonder if his perception changed. Also he placed a lot of emphasis on how the game is hard to balance if you zerg or twink, rather than quality of life.

I'm not a game designer nor an expert on balancing a game, but if it's possible, I think locks should at least be removed from Druid events. People already zerg them and they're already designed for large number of players, so I don't see why you should punish players who can't first hit a monster. I know you can mitigate the problem by joining a group but even then, often players just say "tag a mob" and refuse to team up but that doesn't work if every mobs are locked before I can hit them. Now that I'm higher level and know the game better it doesn't happens anymore but it can be disappointing for new players or someone arriving late at the event.

[Mikhaila]

I think this was a case of some misunderstanding. It doesn't sound from your description that you did anything wrong. Especially if the other player wasn't reacting at all.

The player shaming you in chat was doing something wrong.

[MrKen]

I have to agree with the OP, especially about druid events. when I first started the game I loved the druid events. I mainly solo and I remember rushing to them and throwing myself into the battle. It felt communal, and it did not matter how little damage I was able to do to the mobs, it felt like I was helping. It was fun and you got loot!
These events inspired me to become a druid. I did not care that it was a permanent choice and you had to do the events or face some XP penalties.
I took a break from the game and came back only to find the change had been put in place to force you to get into groups. It destroyed the events for me. How did forcing you to find groups with people to zerg monsters help? Its 'hey looking for group for druid event' *gets invite* *silence as everyone kills mobs* *event finishes*
*thanks everyone* *disband*
I pretty much avoid the druid events. Forme they are not fun and the changes greatly reduced my enjoyment of them. Does anyone enjoy them MORE due to the changes?

[Mikhaila]

The change to Elites was not to force people to group. It was to prevent players using 12-15 people to zerg a dungeon and everyone get loot off bosses, or in the top tier dungeons, off of every mob.

It does make some druid events less fun. But frankly? The event isn't at all about getting a bunch of trash loot. It's about finishing the event and getting the druid points.

[MrKen]

You do bring up a good point about the loot. At some point that also was reduced. And while it may not have been about the loot for you, it certainly played a part in my enjoyment of the events. Who doesnt like loot? where is the incentive to help kill a mob that some other person/group has tagged?

Oh and btw, I am not saying they should not have made changes for the health of the game. Rather I am agreeing with the OP about the effect they had, intentional or otherwise on the druid events. The only one I do these days is the occasional Serbule event for a top up of points.