NecroHammer 40k

[Glythe]

I have not leveled necro but If you talk to Avid he will say it was not the best class decision. Avid has a lot of play time with Necro and I respect him as a player. I have no quarrel with Mirromorka/Pazzuzzra except that I have been falsely accused of trolling (and again by Coglin). As far as I know Mirro is a good upstanding player as well.

One day Pazz comes up to me and says, " I can do 40k damage to Lethargy Puck in 7 seconds". We very breifly spoke but Pazz pulled out his archers and showed me that he was able to get his pets up to 495% damage boost in town. I was told this build uses zero darkness damage to achieve high damage. The other bit of information I was told was that this build has a very long cooldown on the order of 50 seconds. Against enemies who are not puck the build supposedly does 20k damage in 7 seconds.

I suspect this was due to how multiplication of abilities works currently (which will very likely change next patch).

Build reverse engineering speculation:

1. Mirro may or may not be using a rat pick hammer which changes many of the hammer abilties to pierce. (my guess is not for puck).
2. This mod is probably being used : Way of the Hammer boosts Slashing and Piercing Damage +34% for 10 seconds. This mod may see use to boost archer skeletons.


It is quite possible this was a complete fabrication; but I have every reason to suspect it was true. I asked to see a build on Gorgon Explorer to see exactly what powers were being used. Maybe this is how Citan imagined necro being used and was quietly laughing because everyone else was "doing it wrong". I asked this player to make a post on the forum to tell other necros about their build because there are a lot of wrong/bad idea suggestions on how to play necro. Personally I would love to see many people playing necro instead of another fire mage. Regardless of those thoughts I asked the player involved to make a post and tell people how they could play necro instead. The reply I got was : No, I don't want to see my build get nerfed.

I kinda laughed at this because I know what kind of tools existed in text games as well as some of the early MMO games. There are GM tools where you can see what people did in a combat log. Look at the transfer chest logs for a guild and you will get an idea of what I mean. In short Mirro's build is not a mystery to Citan. But Mirro is apparently willing to make a thread that says : necro works just fine - but I am not welling to tell you how to make it work.

Is this tread trolling or some sort of revenge reply? No. It is my recount of the event. The purpose is to hopefully help any aspiring necromancers who may be struggling. One of the things I really enjoy doing is finding people who are struggling and push them into a really good spot in the game. Take a level 50 player who feels weak and get them aug/trans. Make them a set of armor (maybe maximized) that they farmed the mats for. Take them through dungeons to get some of the harder mats like winterprize. And the end result is a player who becomes very strong in the process; a level 50 max enchanted gear set is more than enough to contribute real damage in a dungeon like gazluk keep. The extra mod slots from a well rolled set usually make up for the difference in level 70 modifiers. And in the process you usually make some nice friends (not because you dragged them to victory but more of the time you spent with them along the way).

I cannot think of a single thing I have done to troll Mirro. There may be a languge barrier looking at the writing of the post Citan just closed.



On a game design level there is a problem with this build and other builds that do super spike damage. Front loaded damage is always better than damage over time. In the case of a level 80 boss it is obvious because if your group can deal 20% damage and your build can dish out the remaining 80% then that boss becomes trivial. Everquest had this issue with the manaburn ability.

Once upon a time there were old world dragons that took 30+ people to slay. And then one day wizards had the ability to spend all their mana at once. So groups of 4-6 wizards went around and killed bosses that were on a week spawn timer. That loot was never meant to be so easily gained by 4-6 players instead of 40-60 players. You can imagine the problem of arranging 40-60 players vs getting 6 wizards together. In short manaburn was changed so that you could only manaburn the dragon once and time had to pass before you could do it again.


Am I vengefully seeking another player's build to be nerfed? No. But with that in mind I do not think it is not good game design for one player to do 2k, 1k,1k, 1k with their abilities while another character clicks the correct sequence and does 20k damage. You may or may not be familiar with Professor Cat who either came up with or uses a similar build with the druid nuke. This type of build needs to get deleted from the game in my opinion. How silly would it be if you had two or three people using an alternate gear set to just delete an open world boss in 7 seconds? This is a boss designed to be engaged by a full level 80 group in good gear. It would be just as bad if a single level 80 character were able to kite the boss around for several minutes and slay it without ever being hit. How much fun would it be if we had level 100 and bosses like Lethargy puck were always farmed by people in an alternate "one hit kill set"? It is my opinion you cannot have "honest builds" along side "janky meme spike damge" builds.

To summarize this post: Dear necros - there may actually be a viable build hidden in this game. Talk to Pazz/Mirro and ask nicely to see if those secrets will be shared with you.

[Mbaums]

There is not a perfect way to share builds. I know about the gorgon explorer but that link expires. Not everyone cares for the idea of paint-by-the-colors, so they won't save and share a build that they already have put together if the code expired. It's just an extra hoop to jump through that won't have any acknowledgement of the time put in.


You mention Mirro almost 10 times above. I think you are obsessed and you don't understand why the last thread ended.

[Greyfyn]

Hi, Just real quick.

It is not appropriate to calll out players or start flames on the forum. Please refresh your understanding of forum rules.

With all the removed posts and locked down threads, this is NOT the time to start something again here.

Please reconsider these posts.

Grey

[Celerity]

Just wanna point out that he did in fact tell you his necro build, zombie + provoke skeletal archers. I've personally seen the zombie hitting for 2.5k against a neutral resistance mob, so against lethargy puck, where crushing is effective, the zombie alone would be dealing something like 15k damage in that time period. Then with pound to slag you can easily hit for 10k on a crushing effective mob and with some other crushing hammer abilities plus the archers and precasted provoke, zombie and way of the hammer, and I could easily see it reaching nearly 40k damage. Especially if you start including damage buffs from potions etc.

Necromancy is actualy a really good skill, the reason nobody uses it is because you have to micromanage so much. You have to keep your pets in line, which also means you can't pull, you have to keep provoke undead and the zombie buffs going at all times during the fight and then the result you get is single target damage only which takes time to ramp up. In a normal group, because mob hp is so low, half the time your zombie will just be running between targets and standing around rather than actually attacking. Where necromancy really shines is actually elite soloing or very high hp mobs like the world bosses but in nearly all cases this is less than 1% of actual play.

Necromancy can also seem poor, especially the zombie until you get proper mods like the zombie speed buff. I did some testing and the zombie can solo a mob at around the same level as the ability without any mods in nearly all cases, but the problem is since it's so slow by default it's basically impossible to use until you mod his speed.

[Vish]

Glythe Chill Out your 'obsession' its not too healthy for you.
And your post puts some dev/admin (that should work hard 25h/24h for upcoming 'Fairy Race Update' that hundreds of players waiting for so badly that they cant sleep at night) in bad mood, and at this moment his good mood is MOST IMPORTANT THINK IN WORD for many many fairy freak players

PS: this post is joke that try make Citan mood better :P

[Citan]

In case there's any doubt: yeah, Necro has some overpowered combinations. It's not the only skill with them, either. I do plan to fix those problems, but in this upcoming update I've had to focus on other things. So it'll stay OP for a bit, but not forever.

[Glythe]

I think you are obsessed and you don't understand why the last thread ended.

I think you are confused. I made this thread to say hey maybe a build exists that makes necro work. I get called a troll for no real reason so I started with an explanation of the event.

I do not really consider the other players mentioned in that thread. I would have no problem talking to them in game or playing with them.

Just wanna point out that he did in fact tell you his necro build

When we spoke in game he was vauge about it and almost immediately backpeddled. I asked the player to make a post on the forum in a sincere way to let people know how they could play necro. I have no interest in the class personally as for me it is merely a way to talk to corpses and make powder for jewelcraft.

I was pretty sure a build like this was something Citan was already aware about (go back and look at some of his posts about player damage being too high here and there).

The goal here is not to ruin anyone's play experience; but in so doing that might need to be done during an alpha state of the game. Looking at game design you cannot have one person be superman while someone else is Marvin - friend of wonder dog (Forgive me for paraphrasing someone else's words). Pre nerf aoe bard comes to mind here where they just killed everything at once and in so doing kinda ruined the game for everyone around them.

I was pretty sure a build like this falls under the category of "breaks the game" but maybe not. There was a possibility that this is how the class was intended to be played. If that was the case everyone should know so that they too can make a necro build that works. It would be lovely if we could remove the "necro sucks" stigma the class has had for a long time. If the build were broken I think I would rather know early and begin switching to something else rather than wake up one day and find I can kill nothing.

[Space]

Hey Glythe!

As much as I understand your side of how people should share their build to help players that may be interested in certain skills.. it shouldn't be that easy giving them a roadmap to end-game combos. This is what separates the great players from the casual players. We find these hidden combos BECAUSE we learn and test what each ability does + how they work together.

What Paz did was absolutely amazing - He put in so much time and effort into making that build and learning how it truly works. He took what everyone said about how "necro sucks" and turned it into something great. Should he then share it with the rest of the players that didn't bother into putting that much time and effort to find such an amazing build? I personally don't think so. Should he let the devs know about this OP build? Sure, I think it's good for the game and us end-game players are here to test the limits. Those are my two cents on this topic.

[Glythe]

As much as I understand your side of how people should share their build to help players that may be interested in certain skills.. it shouldn't be that easy giving them a roadmap to end-game combos. This is what separates the great players from the casual players. We find these hidden combos BECAUSE we learn and test what each ability does + how they work together.

Personally I was hoping someone wanted to post the golden ticket about how to make necro work. I asked the player to make a post explaining how to make necro work - because for most people it dos not.

Honestly most of the "end game combos" that are legitimate are very easy to see. Most of the armor mods in this game are eiether : super powerful, super mediorce, or please do not let that roll on my armor ever again. The builds that are broken that nobody figured out are hidden gems. One thing Paz said to me was something along the lines of "I know 6 other builds that work like this" as if to indicate this build was fine and needed no adjustments.

Having never played necro (aside from powerleveling it now and again) and not even knowing the name of the skills a friend and I were able to reverse engineer the build in about 10 minutes after a brief discussion.

What Paz did was absolutely amazing - He put in so much time and effort into making that build and learning how it truly works. He took what everyone said about how "necro sucks" and turned it into something great. Should he then share it with the rest of the players that didn't bother into putting that much time and effort to find such an amazing build? I personally don't think so.

This game has a great community most of the time. There are a small group of people who are aces through and through. I would hope most people would be willing to share insight if someone asked. That does not necessarily mean : lgck0mj (completely randomly typed). But there are some people who will do exactly that so it does not hurt to ask - or so I thought. I suppose I assumed incorrectly that when this player posted on the forum they were willing to share their build after a change of heart. My bad.

I think it shows Pazz was very clever in making a super op build from "the worst class". But at the same time I was pretty sure the build he made was not what the developer intended as: it did insane damage relative to other classes, did not use darkness damage, and was reliant on very long cooldown abilities.

I had a brief conversation with Pazz and I thought we had a really nice talk about necro. Paz asked to be friend (and I accepted). He later removed me wile I was offline (no idea why). There are two people in the game I can think of by name that I do not want to associate with and neither has been mentioned in this thread or the other.

[AgentBbrian]

It's nice seeing what everyone uses as an excuse for not sharing builds, but everyone is just in fear of a dev seeing it and it getting nerfed haha.
nerf culture, weird then those people are basically exploiting something if they think that right? no point being a tester for this very early access game if they are not helping and just exploiting.