Multi-boxing/multi-account activty

[cratoh]

Hi there,

I was hoping one of the team could clear up the stance on what is, and is not allowed with regards to multiboxing, or using/owning more than 1 account of PG.

I've been gaming for a good few years I suppose now, and one of the most rewarding and fun games I played was Everquest 2. I started on Lucan D'Lere server and had a blast grouping and crafting and whatnot. I was playing in UK time on a mainly US server though and it got quiet when I was on. So I bought a second account to make a healer on, and over time I got quite good at screen-switching and dropping a heal or buff or 2 on my main character. Later I added a bard, purely as a buff character. EQ2 had /follow feature which obviously made getting around easier. For off times, when no one was about, or no one wanted to do the same areas, I could just about muddle through elite content with this set up. Ofc when I could get in a full group and play I would do that as well. It was quite interesting as I contacted CS at eq2 regarding whether or not it was against EULA as there was some resistance from a few vocal players about dual boxing, and was assured it was absolutely up to me how many accounts I had/used as long as there was no automation.

After some chat in game today, and on other occasions in the past in PG, I hope you could clarify what is and isn't acceptable in this game?

One of the great misconceptions about dual boxing seems to be the 'gold farmer' slur, and that it is somehow giving an advantage. It actually is quite hard to do manually and requires a greater outlay on gear and so forth, and - is simply never as effective as a good group, so therefore not something to worry about I would have thought.

I did chat with Srand, as part of a greater conversation with other players as well about mules, storage and multi-boxing and was sure she had said multi-boxing was fine but I may be mistaken.

So, yeah - before I go and buy a loyalty package on a second account, could I get an answer, thank you.

Finbarr.

[kell.shepherd]

More importantly.. where do the devs stand on beat-boxing?

[cratoh]

I don't know where they stand on beat boxing, maybe it will be the 7th instrument, but would be nice to know about dual boxing.

[Citan]

The very honest answer is we haven't decided yet whether multiboxing will be allowed in the final game. But I am leaning towards not allowing it. In games where multiboxing is actually hard, it's not much of a problem, but when it's easy, it creates a lot of envy and anger from other players, and I don't need that. And would it be hard here? Probably not. When I add features like auto-follow, and when you've found powerful "hands-off" support builds (a battle chemistry/mentalism combo comes to mind), it's a pretty dramatic increase in power for little effort, and it's something that has historically pissed other players off.

Yeah, I can tweak the game to make multiboxing harder and more "fair", but I don't want to have to think "wait, what does this design decision mean for multi-boxers?" every time I make a change.

On the other hand, when a game is older and I'm making an alt, it IS fun to multibox. I multiboxed WoW and enjoyed it. But that was after it'd been out for five years and other players didn't care nearly as much if I was power-leveling an alt. So if history is any evidence, we'll similarly worry less about this as time progresses.

In the very short term (like today), it's fine. You can multibox during the alpha, at least until further notice. But since no launch decisions have been made, I wouldn't pay for an extra account if you only want to use it to multibox!

[kell.shepherd]

Can't help but notice you completely sidestepped the beatboxing issue. Playing it safe.. I like it. Don't want to rustle any jimmies out there.

[Spiritfingers]

Can't help but notice you completely sidestepped the beatboxing issue. Playing it safe.. I like it. Don't want to rustle any jimmies out there.

Ok, if beat boxing is added, Citan needs to add break dancing as well.

[kell.shepherd]

Ok, if beat boxing is added, Citan needs to add break dancing as well.

See, this is how games get made better. If we're going to have break-dancing then we need dance battles as a pvp option. "MrWhiskers challenges you to a dance battle, do you accept?"

[cratoh]

The very honest answer is we haven't decided yet whether multiboxing will be allowed in the final game. But I am leaning towards not allowing it. In games where multiboxing is actually hard, it's not much of a problem, but when it's easy, it creates a lot of envy and anger from other players, and I don't need that. And would it be hard here? Probably not. When I add features like auto-follow, and when you've found powerful "hands-off" support builds (a battle chemistry/mentalism combo comes to mind), it's a pretty dramatic increase in power for little effort, and it's something that has historically pissed other players off.

Yeah, I can tweak the game to make multiboxing harder and more "fair", but I don't want to have to think "wait, what does this design decision mean for multi-boxers?" every time I make a change.

On the other hand, when a game is older and I'm making an alt, it IS fun to multibox. I multiboxed WoW and enjoyed it. But that was after it'd been out for five years and other players didn't care nearly as much if I was power-leveling an alt. So if history is any evidence, we'll similarly worry less about this as time progresses.

In the very short term (like today), it's fine. You can multibox during the alpha, at least until further notice. But since no launch decisions have been made, I wouldn't pay for an extra account if you only want to use it to multibox!

Hi Citan, thanks for the reply.

I know a lot of us have second accounts (and more) for storage and to trade items more easily, and for hoarding. I'm glad that we are able to multi box at the moment as it can be hard to find people to group with at certain times of day. I for one really hope that you do allow multiboxing at launch, it is a play style that does appeal to a lot of people, generally that stay fairly quiet because of a bit of discrimination really from people who see it as a form of cheating, whereas I think it merely a play style choice ( but won't get into that here). Combat boxing is pretty hard at the moment on account of no auto follow, which leads to all sorts of issues with giving oneself a headache trying to get a toon to a position; or not building up endurance because not soloing an therefore taking hits etc.

I guess like everyone else, I had a favourite game experience, which was EQ2, where sometimes a couple of us would multibox content in groups together in slacks times and what not. Some games offer mercenary NPCs which sort of act like boxes as well. I don't really see that multiboxing would be that much of a game breaker here in the sense that it would let people steamroll content on their own so to speak, simply from the way that things level like endurance, and the fact that due to multi skill feature anyone can power level themselves quite easily with a skill already maxed.

As for worrying about how design decisions effect multiboxers, in terms of content at least, then that isn't something to really consider at all, as PG is set up for individuals to solo, or occasionally group. If people choose to box, they get the ups as well as the downs!

You says 'I wouldn't pay for an extra account if you only use it to multibox' is this to be read that you could buy an extra accoun tto use as a mule account, possibly to multibox later if allowed?

Thanks,

Finbarr

[Khaylara]

I know it's been answered but I heard some people were banned for multiboxing to loot elites (during a Halloween event). I don't know if that's accurate but I'd like to throw out there why I think Citan shouldn't allow it (even in the current stage).

-telling people it's allowed now and at some point telling them to stop doing it will cause massive problems. Players would be like "But you told us it's allowed" . It's going to be very hard to punish someone who drags 2 chars through a dungeon and loots chests on 2 chars or more.
-it can be used to level alts w/o actually playing them, just add them to group and keep them there to get exp. Voila, an alt that can be maxed w/o being actually played.
-it can be used to bypass vendor limitations
-it can be used to loot an elite twice (at least)
-it can be used to loot chests twice (or more)

To me all of the above sound like exploits and again, not punishable since it was clearly stated it's allowed. Mules....maybe but it should be limited to that. Me as a player have a problem with multiboxing. It's a way to make much more extra cash and considering there's gonna be no wipe extra cash counts towards skills. I also think it's going to be affecting data and feedback. It's going down a rabbit hole where if a player exploits an event on alts you have no right to punish them. Or you can of course but it will look abusive since that would contradict the "It's allowed for now" statement.
When quite a few people were banned for repeatedly looting chests...what was the response? You told us it's fine as long as we report it. And I can vouch that was true (looted a crapload of stuff in goblin annex while the mobs were bugged). It did feel like double standards in that case and that's why many thought it was an unfair ban. Because it wasn't clearly stated.


PS I already saw some (top) players dragging alts through dungeons and Kur and as a player myself I don't think it fair.
PPS I understand you expect everyone to be respectful and use common sense. My common sense says multiboxing for cash gain is an exploit and should be stated clearly what is allowed and what is not or these blurred lines will cause a lot of issues.

[Spiritfingers]

I know it's been answered but I heard some people were banned for multiboxing to loot elites (during a Halloween event). I don't know if that's accurate but I'd like to throw out there why I think Citan shouldn't allow it (even in the current stage).

-telling people it's allowed now and at some point telling them to stop doing it will cause massive problems. Players would be like "But you told us it's allowed" . It's going to be very hard to punish someone who drags 2 chars through a dungeon and loots chests on 2 chars or more.
-it can be used to level alts w/o actually playing them, just add them to group and keep them there to get exp. Voila, an alt that can be maxed w/o being actually played.
-it can be used to bypass vendor limitations
-it can be used to loot an elite twice (at least)
-it can be used to loot chests twice (or more)

To me all of the above sound like exploits and again, not punishable since it was clearly stated it's allowed. Mules....maybe but it should be limited to that. Me as a player have a problem with multiboxing. It's a way to make much more extra cash and considering there's gonna be no wipe extra cash counts towards skills. I also think it's going to be affecting data and feedback. It's going down a rabbit hole where if a player exploits an event on alts you have no right to punish them. Or you can of course but it will look abusive since that would contradict the "It's allowed for now" statement.
When quite a few people were banned for repeatedly looting chests...what was the response? You told us it's fine as long as we report it. And I can vouch that was true (looted a crapload of stuff in goblin annex while the mobs were bugged). It did feel like double standards in that case and that's why many thought it was an unfair ban. Because it wasn't clearly stated.


PS I already saw some (top) players dragging alts through dungeons and Kur and as a player myself I don't think it fair.
PPS I understand you expect everyone to be respectful and use common sense. My common sense says multiboxing for cash gain is an exploit and should be stated clearly what is allowed and what is not or these blurred lines will cause a lot of issues.

This is a scary concept. I hadn't considered the impact on other players muliboxing creates. What's even more scary is I have no clue which players online are alts. You are the only person I know the alt to.