Update Discussion: May 25, 2018

[Crissa]

I don't really like the 'lists' but we do need a way to consistently keep track of what 'monster 2 of 6' is doing.

[ErDrick]

Just thought of something else that needs mentioning, but before that I would like to say the reason I'm posting stuff in this thread instead of making a new thread for combat issues is because we have tried it before, and those threads immediately die. People actually read patch note discussions.

-Crowd Control
I don't think Mez should be unbreakable for 5 seconds, as that would just turn it into a 5 second stun which is ridiculously strong

If you want to talk about how ridiculously strong a 5 second stun would be ( like you thought I meant ) we really should bring up how stupidly powerful AE disables are, since they're essentially the same thing.

Especially when certain bosses ( at least 3 I can think of) have AE disable + ae stun+ ae knockback as their skillset. The current work around is stun the hell out of them before they can do it....Kill them before they become unstunned if you can.

If I CC a mob it becomes immune to the same type of CC for 60 seconds afterwards, why doesn't that apply to players?

At the very least if that's going to remain a thing then disables shouldn't gray out healing abilities.

Can you imagine if a player skillset had a 5 second AE disable like mobs do? on like a 5 second cooldown ( like they basically do because their rage bars are so small)....everyone would be using it.

We should also bring up how multiple mobs that stun for 1 second each are able to stack those stuns into 10 second durations.... it's not very fun when you get caught in it and don't have 60%+ stun resistance.

I feel like this type of ability should be reserved for something special / insanely powerful, not to every boss going forward ( which seems to be the trend atm). Not to even mention a plethora of trash mobs having the ability.

Thoughts?

[Yaffy]

@ErDrick

When it comes to AoE disables and stuff from bosses, honestly I like them, since they make the boss more difficult and a bit crazier. Now, I don't know how other people feel about it, but one big thing that I like about those bosses like the golem is that they can reward good movement from players, which is a big thing Project Gorgon has that other MMORPGs don't (Probably by accident). If you aren't the one tanking, you can actually dodge those AoEs by moving out of range and then coming back in, which I think is really cool, but I really don't see people do like ever. (Most people just run away to heal if they're dying). It doesn't just save health but also increases damage since you get to avoid the disable/stun.

This is basically the same thing as other MMORPGs where enemies spawn big red circles around them to warn everyone around them of the attack you need to dodge, but this one doesn't give you such a blatant warning and it's based off of cooldown/rage meter instead, which makes it feel way more natural rather than the typical MMORPG Dance Dance Revolution. It's kind of awkward before you understand how the boss works though. I would love to see these moves be telegraphed in an interesting way and have their ranges shown, but without resorting to the typical MMORPG style of "Step out of the red circle". Maybe something like a telegraphed animation before the move comes out would be neat? Like if the Golem did an animation that says "I'm going to explode" or something without drawing anything on the ground.

I know what I said would be a bit of work on the animation department and kinda push Gorgon to being sorta actiony. But I do think it would make boss fights more interesting. You wouldn't have to change stats or anything (Since I know some games would use the give away animation as an excuse to triple its damage) but it would just encourage players to do what they already could be doing right now and make it a bit easier to understand. It's a bit of a silly proposal but I do think movement in combat in PG is completely different than movement in other MMORPGs and could have potential to be implemented in a fun and interesting way.

[Leodane]

I typed out a nice, long response to the question of the cost of unlocking higher level skills, but the internet went out when I hit submit =\

Short version: I'm reaching the part of the game where I'll have to be unlocking 61+ pretty soon. I'm bard 57/ psych 50/ ment 48 right now, and I just don't see the point in grinding money for hours to unlock 61+ yet. Being higher level doesn't really change the game. I don't get more options, just harder versions of the same options. I get the same enjoyment out of murdering piles of goblins that I get from murdering piles of anything else, and I can murder piles of goblins just fine with my L50 skills. Most of what I find enjoyable about this game can be done at pretty much any level. The only incentives to killing stuff and leveling up past 50 is to get the ability to kill more stuff and level up more. There's no land ownership. There's no political offices to run for. There's no interesting game functionality which unlocks at higher levels in combat skills, so right now, it's really not a good investment relative to the amount of work it requires. I say this from the perspective of a relatively casual player - my play time is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 hours a week, mostly on Saturday.

Said another way, I don't think I'd enjoy the game more at level 70 because I'd just be doing the same things, but I'd have to sink 20 hours of grinding into just gathering money.

[preechr]

Speaking of the cost issue though, some input from first time players would be pretty helpful to determine if this ( money) is as big of a problem as I think it is... I know it is to some of the other veterans I have talked to about it. In most games though, your money would be going towards upgrading your gear instead of unlocking skills so...this game is in a strange place as far as that goes, and I could be completely off the mark.

Someone called for a noob?

While there seem to be a few new players that may not have much general MMO knowledge/experience, I think the first thing newcomers to Serbule do is find an NPC to unload their inventory on... Asking whether there is a vendor on Anagoge is pretty common, as is "How do I get back to the island to get all my stuff out of that chest?"

Marna's Used tab shows evidence of this as well, and then we get the questions about weekly spending limits and people learn to increase favor and spread their loot out among appropriate vendors. The game already provides hints in this regard, but just as they are already familiar with the concept of stockpiling money, they are used to not reading what NPCs say

I may be guilty of not getting a hint myself, but it seems like the NPC Work Order Board requires someone to just stumble upon it, way out north of town, and that's a great way to earn some money if you are willing to learn the crafting skills required. I did this for a while, and didn't mind having to learn some carpentry, gardening and cooking to earn some cash, and it didn't take long to understand how the rotation works.

While the game's lack of "hand-holding" is admirable, the community generally steps in to thoroughly explain to those that ask a question in Global that they should focus more on favor and less on cash at first, how vendors and storage work, how to get back to the island, how to find the More Info tab on items, where to look for stuff they need, how to access the wiki.... part of me thinks the game is still holding hands, but since its the community doing it, I suppose that community-building is the point of the game not providing that information

In my case, once the Work Orders I could easily fill ran out, I was pretty close to being able to farm cotton, so I grew enough flowers to get there so I could start filling Player Work Orders to make cash... By far my first level 50 skill was foraging, followed by gardening, so I realize I don't play like most people I suppose, but I haven't had a huge problem finding ways to make money so far

The thought of farming up a several million councils though... Sheesh
@Escwine and I are probably going to start setting up a store on the weekends though, so I've been stockpiling some valuable stuff and we may turn a fair profit that way... I'm sure as I progress into Kur and Rahu other sources of councils will become available as well

TL;DR - So far so good for this noob

[snowe]

I typed out a nice, long response to the question of the cost of unlocking higher level skills, but the internet went out when I hit submit =\

Short version: I'm reaching the part of the game where I'll have to be unlocking 61+ pretty soon. I'm bard 57/ psych 50/ ment 48 right now, and I just don't see the point in grinding money for hours to unlock 61+ yet. Being higher level doesn't really change the game. I don't get more options, just harder versions of the same options. I get the same enjoyment out of murdering piles of goblins that I get from murdering piles of anything else, and I can murder piles of goblins just fine with my L50 skills. Most of what I find enjoyable about this game can be done at pretty much any level. The only incentives to killing stuff and leveling up past 50 is to get the ability to kill more stuff and level up more. There's no land ownership. There's no political offices to run for. There's no interesting game functionality which unlocks at higher levels in combat skills, so right now, it's really not a good investment relative to the amount of work it requires. I say this from the perspective of a relatively casual player - my play time is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 hours a week, mostly on Saturday.

Said another way, I don't think I'd enjoy the game more at level 70 because I'd just be doing the same things, but I'd have to sink 20 hours of grinding into just gathering money.

It's unfortunately true, the game peaks at 50 in many cases currently. Some of the fault can be found in the mechanics (they feel very repetitive for any given skill line), some fault can be found in the wicked forced council grind (the 51-60 unlock is annoying, the 61-70 unlock is a kick in the nuts and all the abilities you will need to buy and/or research along the way are simply soul-crushing), some of the fault is on zone design (sub 50, you're mostly able to walk around outside of dungeons without worrying about maintaining body heat or hydration levels) and some of the fault simply rests on polish (sub 50 content has been in game longer, and correspondingly has more polish and variation).

There are a few things that have been more fun for me past 50 than prior, however. Messing about with transmutation and augmentation has been enjoyable, but the cost to do so is prohibitively high for some (both in time and councils). Some of the group dungeons are fun (I'm not sure they're more enjoyable than Serbule Crypt for it's level, however), and have interesting verticality. They're also pretty punishing for bad or even slightly sub-adequate pick up groups and nearly impossible to solo in.

Perhaps the thing I found most enjoyable about post level 50 content, however, was AE farming places like Kur Tower and the Wolf Cave for councils and phlog/augs. There was something satisfying about building out a skill and equipment set to accomplish that efficiently. Keeping this post apropos to the thread, however, that's been severely nerfed during the last major update.

Always remember, however, that sometimes the only winning move is not to play.

[Niph]

Eventually your friends unlock 61+ to see new hunting grounds. That's their incentive (and you will want to follow).

[Mikhaila]

The money seem daunting at first, especially if you are trying to concentrate on just one thing like leveling combat skills. People say they feel they are being punished. And they are but.....They are the ones punishing themselves. Sounds harsh, but if you ignore all of the game except leveling combat it means you will hit an expensive part of the game very early without a lot of ways to make money. The same will happen if you pick any tradeskill and decide you are going to max it out quickly. Or foraging, corpse talking, cheesemaking, flower arrangement, nature, poetry, etc etc etc.

If you take time off from leveling combat and explore a bit, gather a lot, do work orders, and broaden your base of skills, then the money flows in and you have a way to pay for things.

[Raviollius]

some fault can be found in the wicked forced council grind (the 51-60 unlock is annoying, the 61-70 unlock is a kick in the nuts and all the abilities you will need to buy and/or research along the way are simply soul-crushing)

It's only going to get worse, higher skills being huge exp/time/moneysinks is done by design, so it becomes incredibly impractical to be a master of everything.

[snowe]

It's only going to get worse, higher skills being huge exp/time/moneysinks is done by design, so it becomes incredibly impractical to be a master of everything.

If that is the intention, I'm at peace with that.

Always remember, however, that sometimes the only winning move is not to play.