Welcome to Project: Gorgon!


Project: Gorgon is a 3D fantasy MMORPG (massively-multiplayer online role-playing game) that features an immersive experience that allows the player to forge their own path through exploration and discovery. We won't be guiding you through a world on rails, and as a result there are many hidden secrets awaiting discovery. Project: Gorgon also features an ambitious skill based leveling system that bucks the current trend of pre-determined classes, thus allowing the player to combine skills in order to create a truly unique playing experience.

The Project: Gorgon development team is led by industry veteran Eric Heimburg. Eric has over a decade of experience working as a Senior and Lead Engineer, Developer, Designer and Producer on successful games such as Asheron’s Call 1 and 2, Star Trek Online and other successful Massively Multiplayer Online Games.



User Tag List

Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 84
  1. #1
    Junior Member Rowina's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    27
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Points
    188 (0 Banked)

    Player Vendors - high rent slow sales

    I dont know if you all noticed but the community is changing. As a permanent player vendor owner I am feeling that the market is becoming very slow. Maybe more people are becoming more self sufficient or using different skills but in general sales are very very low. I would really like for you Citan to tell me what you think about lowering our rent during the alpha since keeping up with paying almost 8k daily and not selling a thing its a bit too much. Yes there is always the option of leaving the shop and coming back later but I would like to keep my spot at the first hall near Tadion if that is going to be possible since the game as it is still isnt launched. In regular circumstances I would understand it if you would say that I should give someone else the chance to be selling in that room but at this point with such low population it doesn't really matter where you are standing. we are all experiencing an ebb in sales

  2. #2
    Junior Member lileth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    US
    Posts
    10
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Points
    94 (0 Banked)
    Achievements First Post!
    Thank you for posting this Rowina, I've had/seen this discussion with many in game. PG offers so many skills and areas of interest that the game itself keeps one occupied. I have retail mgmt. at 40+ on a toon and in a specialty field you spend so much time keeping your shop supplied that you don't do much else. Once I was paying close to 8k a day to keep the shop open I closed it.

    I'm not sure if the high rent helps drive the high cost of products but frankly I've found it more productive to deal with individuals and see that many just sell in global chat.

    I've also noticed more tables for hire this past month. I've been actively playing since around Christmas 2016. Not sure if our pop numbers are down or what else to attribute it to.

    Either way, while I enjoyed being able to supply others with items they wanted the cost and time spent was interfering with my game time.

    Zems Gems
    Last edited by lileth; 09-08-2017 at 01:43 AM. Reason: Spelling error

  3. #3
    Member Tigerwyld's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    49
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Points
    349 (0 Banked)
    [Content removed by srand.]


    @Tigerwyld, that's enough.
    Last edited by srand; 09-08-2017 at 04:04 PM.
    "We few, we happy few - we band of piggies."

  4. #4
    Junior Member Rowina's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    27
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Points
    188 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerwyld View Post
    oh my gods it's costing me 8k to be a PERMANENT vendor.. oh whine oh cry!
    If it's THAT much of a horrible cost; maybe lose that super special slot you got going on... 2nd hall isn't that bad - MAYBE your sales suck because most people go straight to the 2nd hall now because the rotating vendors have a better selection and lower prices because they're not trying to maintain their rich status off of us.
    I say RAISE the rent.
    They should add an option to mute you here too. You cant talk like a human being can you? I am not even bothering to read your comment. You should learn from humans how they should behave with others.
    Co-Guildmaster of the Guardians of Asgard and a veteran MMORPG player

  5. #5
    Member Arundel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    33
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Points
    168 (0 Banked)
    Hello again Rowina. I made a very similar thread requesting that the rent be removed at least during Alpha. Anyone who suggests keeping it the same as it is or raising it either has 16 hours a day to farm to make it worthwhile or has no concept of making money or how the economy has slowed down. I'm not trying to be insulting, but rather I 100% back what Rowina is saying. It's not even a discussion really, its a well known concept from economics and history of governments that if you tax people 50% of their income and they aren't insanely rich, the economy breaks. Now, when I had 12-16 hours a day to play during my vacation time and partial vacation I was making enough to justify it since I was moving a lot of items. The problem is that even if I undercut EVERYONE (which I do) and try to sell a variety of items, nothing is selling cause we have no playerbase. So this is a cyclical problem, the economy is shrinking due to the playerbase shrinking and then in turn it shrinks more because why pay 8k a day for no sales. So shops close up, we lose variety in goods we can buy, and its affecting the rest of testing in a very bad way. It's skewing the way we argue points about changes since nothing is available.

    The clearest point I'd make is that its hard to justify specializing when next to nothing you need is sold at reasonable prices (because the average guy isn't going to pay 8k per day for nothing) and this in turn affects the overall discussion about ALL testing. We're not being given a reasonable environment to test in because we're taxed too heavily to do so in a reasonable way. I'm not asking for the game to be easy, we're not asking for that, we're asking to be able to test in a meaningful way. Give us 2000 players and an 8k tax isn't bad because you can reliably sell items.

    As a point of reference I am not a "newb" or lazy, I have nearly all skills maxed. However, I don't play 16 hours a day anymore and work keeps me busy. I'm beginning to believe I am going to wait until Beta or later to test more since I don't think the devs are listening and nearly insist on making our testing harder than it needs to be. 2-3 small changes and we can go on and test just fine, but that can't be bothered with. And I'm not even whining but going off of direct quotes I have seen in the past few weeks about them not wanting to make changes to help us out during testing. This is fine until it begins to drastically skew testing and make everyone quit because its too hard to test such a grindy game when we aren't given a reasonable environment to do so.

  6. #6
    Member Arundel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    33
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Points
    168 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerwyld View Post
    oh my gods it's costing me 8k to be a PERMANENT vendor.. oh whine oh cry!
    If it's THAT much of a horrible cost; maybe lose that super special slot you got going on... 2nd hall isn't that bad - MAYBE your sales suck because most people go straight to the 2nd hall now because the rotating vendors have a better selection and lower prices because they're not trying to maintain their rich status off of us.
    I say RAISE the rent.
    You would make for the worst economist ever. That isn't opinion, its fact. Go read some basic Economics 101 textbook then post. I'm not trying to be inflammatory but these economies in many ways mimic real world economies - in fact many MMO's briefly or permanently higher someone with economics experience just because it is so necessary. If you tax everyone so much that only the busiest players can earn enough to justify selling their goods, you reduce the overall possible goods (or visible goods) that can be sold to say 10% of what it should be. The economy collapses, and you see the skeleton economy we now have.

  7. #7
    Senior Member kazeandi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    140
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Points
    476 (0 Banked)
    There should be a marginal sales tax of 5% or so and the basic fees waved or calculated from how much profit the vendor saw during that week.

    I agree that the whole testing environment is way more of a PITA than it should be, and that includes way more than vendors. Take class balance - there's not even a full array of skills in the game yet, if I read that correctly, and races will be added. That means many demographic, economic and combat-related changes are yet to come. And yet some skills are so hard to access that new players rather give up than go through the pain of leveling 3-4 crafting skills (and grinding all the needed resources themselves most of the time, because you can't buy much, and what you see is extremely overpriced) just to get to BC or Bard (Bard even more so than BC - very hard to get to, yet on the weak side in comparison).

    But maybe all the existing content doesn't need testing anymore and it doesn't matter if anyone plays or not. Maybe only special things, like the new zone, needs targeted testing. I don't see any other reason for the fact that things don't get a bit more relaxed during Alpha.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Greyfyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    104
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Points
    512 (0 Banked)

    Alpha testing

    Admittedly I haven't read every stitch of the posts here, but I do have some insights on the Player Market.

    Before the player markets, there was still an economy. People worked out things in trade, or were able to be somewhat self-sustaining with friends and guilds. And that could happen now if people don't want to set up a store. We used to have long discussions in chat about what things should cost and whether people were being fair.

    I remember the day the player market opened, it was NUTS! When I opened Shot in the Dark (arrow shop) that day, I was able to sell all my hoarded arrow stacks for 10s of thousands. Citan posted a long discussion about his plans for the market and other economy infrastructure. That old forum post should be available to read on the wiki, thanks to Beta Notus. Citan was very clear about deliberately NOT wanting people to keep their shops forever because it was not fair to the player base. And I think he was right. Keeping a store in the front room because you were there first isn't really fair to all the other players.

    Not only that, but the rooms were intended to be sorted by what was sold! There is an underlying economic structure here and it's designed to avoid people monopolizing that front room. [That said, there's no good reason to have the other rooms sectioned off the way they are; there doesn't need to be "second" or "third" class rooms. THAT can be changed by geographically rotating the walls.]

    Understanding the design feature of increased rent, I frequently stopped having my store open. However, I have found that my basic repertoire of Arrows, Food and Floral more than pay for my store, so I've kept it open at A-10 for months. Even though I can't play as much, I still log in every day and do what is needed to keep my store fairly well maintained. I consider it a service to other players, not a complete money maker, so therefore my arrow pricing structure has not changed.

    Ultimately I think the answer to this ongoing market issue is to do as I suggested and just rotate the walls so there's a central walkway and let all the player booths be visible from that hallway. There's no advantage to having one room be "Premium." Eliminate this issue with design.

    As for the economy. Seriously, it's ALPHA. We don't have a player base to sustain more and we shouldn't expect that.

  9.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #9
    Administrator Citan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    211
    Blog Entries
    15
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Points
    1,001 (0 Banked)
    Ultimately I think the answer to this ongoing market issue is to do as I suggested and just rotate the walls so there's a central walkway and let all the player booths be visible from that hallway.
    The reason the market stalls are chopped up the way they are is for occlusion culling. Basically, it's so that your framerate doesn't go even worse than it already does in there. When more optimizations are in place, I hope we can improve the layout, but we can't right now.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Crissa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Posts
    569
    Mentioned
    20 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Points
    1,103 (750 Banked)
    You know what might be cool?

    A directory of shops including ones that aren't open at the moment. And if they have an open time planned...

    I'd check that one. Right now the vendors are kinda hard to tell apart and if they moved around any I'd never know except by inventory.



Thread Footer

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •