Welcome to Project: Gorgon!


Project: Gorgon is a 3D fantasy MMORPG (massively-multiplayer online role-playing game) that features an immersive experience that allows the player to forge their own path through exploration and discovery. We won't be guiding you through a world on rails, and as a result there are many hidden secrets awaiting discovery. Project: Gorgon also features an ambitious skill based leveling system that bucks the current trend of pre-determined classes, thus allowing the player to combine skills in order to create a truly unique playing experience.

The Project: Gorgon development team is led by industry veteran Eric Heimburg. Eric has over a decade of experience working as a Senior and Lead Engineer, Developer, Designer and Producer on successful games such as Asheron’s Call 1 and 2, Star Trek Online and other successful Massively Multiplayer Online Games.



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  1. #11
    Senior Member Crissa's Avatar
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    Well, if you have to walk to the board to swap things, I just don't see why you're buying the work order twice and dropping it on the ground. Your main will see the same work orders as your alt, won't they?

    I don't see the advantage to the alt being there at all, aside from you get to double up on work orders that your alt isn't really qualified for.

  2. #12
    Senior Member alleryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crissa View Post
    I don't see the advantage to the alt being there at all, aside from you get to double up on work orders that your alt isn't really qualified for.
    You also can check the board with your alt to see which items to bring or if you want to make a trip at all, though getting to double up on work orders is probably the biggest perk.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Eachna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tagamogi View Post

    - Lower the profits from the work orders so that they just become helpful for leveling crafting and don't become a source of major income. I'm not sure I like this either since I'm not sure what I'd do for money then.

    Thoughts?
    I like most of what you've suggested, but the profit part. There was a point where work orders were the only way I made enough money to keep myself afloat.

    This is connected to the Serbule favor grind I've commented on about elsewhere.

    There's a huge materials and loot sink for newer players when they hit Serbule. There's a lot of NPCs, it's not clear what benefits any NPC gives you (so you kind of have to unlock all of them to figure it out), and the materials they require come from all over the place. A newer player trying to unlock favor ends up VERY VERY broke.

    Work orders on the Serbule board are one of the few things that stands between a new character and cash starvation.

    This is limited to Serbule. Once you get through the Serbule grind you have enough different NPCs that you can take a little time to be choosy about the NPCs you unlock elsewhere.

    So just for Serbule I think the payouts shouldn't be reduced. In other zones it would probably make sense. Work orders shouldn't be the financial driver for crafters through the entire game. Selling to non-crafters should be. We don't have a large player base so I realize it's a band-aid solution.

    There work orders are really uneven and need a better underlying pricing structure. Cheesemaking doesn't reflect the cost of stomachs. Tailoring is a *lot* more work than Leatherworking and the payouts don't properly reflect that difference. And so on. The underlying code works and is pretty nice for alpha, but it could still use some focused attention.

  4. #14
    Member Yaksnot's Avatar
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    Honestly I don't see the problem, and picking up a w/o only with the appropriate skill level is a bad idea imo.

    Let me try to organize my thoughts while I write this out, so apologies if it is a bit scattered.

    1) this is a pretty sandboxy MMO you can pretty much do what you want. you don't have to go kill mobs and there are a metric ton of skills you can work on to inclue crafting.

    2) crafting can be a true grind, especially your first time thru one like Leatherworking, or tailoring. The time sink involved is real.

    3) Many of us play a sandbox game like this rather than a simon says game like WoW is due to that freedom we enjoy with this game.

    4) its your choice how you spend your time, if you want to create work orders and turn them in with alts to generate additional income I do not see how that is a problem. No I do not do this myself. Yes I am aware of other people doing it and good on them. They have found another way to make money.

    5) what is the fear? is the fear that everyone will start doing this and break the economy? I doubt it will happen. Two major things going against it is that most people that become aware of this just wont bother running an alt out there. The other is that most people will not level the multitude of Trade skills to a high enough level to make it truly worth their while. I can see it generating a couple hundred Thousand for some people. Honestly I am ok with that. They put the time and effort (not to mention the intelligence before this post pointing them to exactly what to do and how to do it) into figuring out how to make things work. Tip O the hat I say.

    6) I can see a valid concern going forward if this gets way out of hand at max level and starts becoming a need to be doing this as a standard practice at end game with really big paydays. But we are not there yet, and its not a standard need to do this action.

    7) I think work orders are a great idea and can be expanded on greatly as they open up a lot of opportunities and not just make X amount of Y items and turn it into Z person.

    8) Bigger Fish to fry. I think I do understand where you are coming from (as stated above) but at this point with so many other major bottle necks (combat!!) and things to work on (GUI!!) as well as development underway (classes and zones!!) I just don't feel that this is a real issue right now. Though certainly time will tell

    Yak

  5. #15
    Senior Member Crissa's Avatar
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    Well, we should still report things like this... So when it does come time to work on it, they have the right feedback to work with. Writing things down encourages discussion and it also offloads the need to memorize every aspect.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Tagamogi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crissa View Post
    Well, if you have to walk to the board to swap things, I just don't see why you're buying the work order twice and dropping it on the ground. Your main will see the same work orders as your alt, won't they?

    I don't see the advantage to the alt being there at all, aside from you get to double up on work orders that your alt isn't really qualified for.
    The alt can also collect work orders, so that the main can turn them in hours or days later. I've just been spending a minute or so checking the work board, and then I'll turn in the work orders much later when I have more time and when I've stacked up at least 4 or so orders, so I only have one trip to make.

    I did the math on a recent nice leather shirt work order, and the net profit on that is at least 5500 councils, assuming a worst-case scenarior where I buy every single skin off a vendor used tab and I'm unable to find gems or redwall crystals for less than 200 councils each. Quite often, I can do better than that.

    I think 5500 councils is a pretty reasonable reward for crafting level 40 items. The potential problem comes in where it only takes maybe 5 minutes to put together this workorder, there are a lot of leather work orders with similar reward levels, and the rewards can be multiplied pretty quickly with the assistance of alt turns ins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yaksnot View Post
    is the fear that everyone will start doing this and break the economy? I doubt it will happen. Two major things going against it is that most people that become aware of this just wont bother running an alt out there. The other is that most people will not level the multitude of Trade skills to a high enough level to make it truly worth their while. I can see it generating a couple hundred Thousand for some people. Honestly I am ok with that.
    I agree with that to some extent. Also,if enough people start doing these work orders, the vendors will run out of skins (or whatever the fast turn-in material of the day is) and they will need to farm the work order materials themselves. I think multiple turn ins are much less of a concern if the reward is something like 1K for half an hour of effort instead of 1K per minute.

    For very fuzzy math reference: I think we are most likely talking about 100k extra money per character doing turn ins, per month. That's doing the super-easy turn ins like leatherworking only.

    I don't know what else players use to make money. There are possibly much easier money making methods available to high levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eachna View Post
    Work orders shouldn't be the financial driver for crafters through the entire game. Selling to non-crafters should be. We don't have a large player base so I realize it's a band-aid solution.
    I quite agree with your post in general but wanted to quibble with this one statement.

    Selling to non-crafters is pretty difficult if you are trying to level a crafting skill that doesn't produce consumable items (e.g. potions or food). It doesn't matter if you can make the best chest armor in the game - your profits are still going to be pretty limited if everyone in the game at most wants to buy it once.

    I really love PG's work order system - I finally have a reason to actually make lots of armor and I don't have to compete with other crafters in the player market in order to make marginal profits (or least-worse losses) on items I create to skill up. And yes, selling to other players is still fun, I'm just saying that it works much better for some skills than others.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Crissa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tagamogi View Post
    The alt can also collect work orders, so that the main can turn them in hours or days later. I've just been spending a minute or so checking the work board, and then I'll turn in the work orders much later when I have more time and when I've stacked up at least 4 or so orders, so I only have one trip to make.
    I do this without the alt sitting there. The work orders just don't seem to change often enough for the transit to matter. Loading into alts takes time, too. Although I've only done it a few days... So the extra inventory of an alt is nothing to sneeze at.

    I like the work-order system, too. It is a 'do 10' quest, but when you're doing one or ten, it really doesn't matter. Although that 'ten antler' order sat in my inventory for like, weeks x-x I musta killed a couple hundred deer.

  8. #18
    Senior Member ShieldBreaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crissa View Post
    ... Although that 'ten antler' order sat in my inventory for like, weeks x-x I musta killed a couple hundred deer.
    I know that feeling, your out killing stuff you pick up 5 of some trophy items, add them to the couple you already got in inventory, go to work board and think hey I only need 2 more for this order and can collect this reward . Then those last 2 take forever to find.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Khaylara's Avatar
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    Unpopular opinion as always I suppose... but I don't do work orders on alts unless they can complete said work orders themselves In other words I don't transfer stuff on another toon to complete work orders multiple times. To me the whole thing sounds exploit-ish so I just don't do it (which probably explains why I'm always broke).

    The problem has to be searched somewhere else - why do players have to do this? The answer is simple - because playing absolutely by the book 100 % of the time doesn't allow you to progress. I get my game cash only by farming and selling stuff. I don't sell craft products (very rarely foods but underpriced or tools at NPC value). I can absolutely guarantee that only doing what I do (farming and selling, no multiple alts camping boards or vendors) a player simply cannot get enough cash to progress (buy skills and unlocks mainly).

    Imho this discussion shouldn't exist, we shouldn't have to use alts and mules to double up on work orders for cash or to store resources or even alts to exploit the guilds system. One character should be enough and able to support itself by farming only. The fact that we can't accomplish that should trigger an alarm bell. In my mind that says "the game doesn't offer enough resources and that forces people into exploiting the existing system". In any other game I always did okay with cash only by farming, crafting and selling my crafts, I supported full guilds sometimes with my own funds. Here though crafts have absolutely no value, you can't sell them to players, there's no coherent market and you're unable to support one toon to the current cap level in more than 2 combat skills unless you exploit the system somehow.

    Don't get me wrong, some of the players posting here are some of the most honest people ever and I don't want to point a finger to anyone yelling "exploit". I am sick of people's multiboxing yes, but the game design encourages that (I include distributing crafted items from one toon to 3,4...10 other toons for WOs in multiboxing even though it's not always the case technically).

    What happened to "you can have everything on one character", "you don't have to keep everything, sell mats and keep only for what you're currently leveling". This is what we were always advised to do, right? However, more and more often I see people muling to 5-10 characters simultaneously and nothing is happening to stop that. That means we actually need 10 characters to keep everything we collect (including for the purpose of industry orders being completed x2.3...10 times). Why do we need to complete the same work order 2,3...10 times although only 1 toon has the craft skills to do it? I can't imagine it's for fun.

    Cause only farming and crafting is not enough for the cost of skills and abilities. And I think a topic about how to fix that would be very useful. How about ideas for a functional economy and a normal marketplace where we can actually sell what we craft and not just overpriced raw materials? It's about time we start building an economy and it's about time we stopped using an army of alts for everything from storing to selling to vendors or completing work orders.

    P.S. I think limiting the reward for work orders is a really bad idea for players like me who only do it on the character that actually has the skills to complete WOs
    PPS not being "holier than thou" here, I play w/o an army of alts simply because any game that encourages that by design is a game I'm going to quit eventually. This one being in alpha I'm hoping won't go in that direction.
    Last edited by Khaylara; 04-03-2017 at 04:40 PM.

  10. #20
    Senior Member alleryn's Avatar
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    It's not hard to get rich on a single character. Given how long people have been playing, there must be multimillionaires. I've topped 700k in three months -- edit: since that isn't a very useful figure: 25 days, 8 hours logged in according to /age -- (just unlocked my two main combat skills past 60, so now i'm down to 500k).

    When i started i did camp the work order boards in Serb and Elt with alts but just to obtain work orders for my main, which i transferred through Hulon's chest and only for the first month or so. I think i turned in a couple of trophy skin orders i wouldn't have otherwise, but it wasn't a major effect. Apart from this i haven't used alts for anything else -- no muling, nothing.

    You can make loads of cash from the single set of work orders (mostly leatherworking, carpentry, alchemy and toolcrafting), cooking, alchemy and toolcrafting forensic kits and skinning knives.

    There may be times where there are abilities you'd like to unlock that you can't afford, but that's a good thing -- if i had everything i wanted, things would get stagnant.

    My main concern with alts is that if it becomes commonplace to do every good work order 4 times, etc, that there will be rampant inflation and the next levels of skill unlocks will be that much more expensive and make it hard to keep up.

    If anything, i think it's too easy to make money at present (after that first period where it's extremely hard to make money before you start unlocking good recipes).
    Last edited by alleryn; 04-03-2017 at 05:29 PM.



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