Discussion: Dev Blog: February 2022

[Citan]

This thread is for discussing the latest blog post, which you can read here: https://forum.projectgorgon.com/entr...-February-2022

[Tandiril]

Damn, I wish you all the best. Stay strong, you two.
Comments on the game components:
1) A povus-like statehelm ... that would have sucked^^ Also nice to hear that the decay rate gets reduced for now. I am not as optimistic that you hit the sweet spot for the final player population, but time will tell.
2) The "high level data" you need, is it about quantity of players, or quantity of different builds? Is a level 80 alt dedicated to a certain build as useful to you as a different player on level 80? There is only so much the high level players can do to "cultivate" new high level players, but high level alts/testing skill combinations on max level is an entirely different topic
edit: about the wipe: you mentioned at some point that you might open a fresh server when the time comes. The blog doesn't mention that, and also doesn't imply it by the sound of it. What's the status on that idea?

[INXS]

First and foremost prayers and thoughts for Sandra, wishing you all the best in this time.

The lv 30.
Serbule Hill and Serbule are very well set up with many things to do, explore. Serbule beside being the hub of the game has a variety of dungeons all different you can go into any of them and explore away, quest wise lots of npc have a slew of things to do, players start working on crafting skills and unlocking storage.

Eltibule, when people get around lv 20-30 they are told to go to goblin dungeon so off they go, wonder the land around the outdoor zone is just a very well designed and beautiful landscape to do that.
When it comes to dungeons what we got Goblin dungeon in main Keep, the Boarded up basement and locked behind Hogan's favor Hogan's basement, Animal Nexus tied behind a key and Dark Chapel entrance connected to the moon phases so things are not so straight forward like Serbule.

Maybe more awareness could be placed on Animal Nexus, maybe npc's mantioned it more maybe the place could use some TLC.

Dark Chapel, great dungeon over all tied to a daily which is well received by community when you almost reach the Scion boss there's a fork in the area 99% of the time the party will go for Scion and recall out.
The other part of dungeon is almost obsolete it's so deep down that just happens to be an inconvenient place to visit, maybe that whole branch of dungeon with Spiderlord and Mother Snail should be relocated and added as continuation to room behind Crazy Terry creating a dungeon that can also be explored and not just to kill mainly cultists.
Also maybe place a mark/board/stone so people can know which phase of the moon is and kind of hint to which altar they need to go to get in
an enlightened path could be explored since beside daily portal not too many venture in it using altars.

So you spent time in Serbule and run back and forth using the npc/storage you got but when you are in Eltibule what do you do, you run back to Serbule to store items a long run maybe place a desk to access Serbule storage from Eltibule it would help with the problem.

You mentioned lv 50 being the point where gear starts to matter and it's true so you go get transmutation and now it's lv 1 you need to go back to Serbule/Hills because you need green level 0-30 gear gain a few level run back to Makara and now it back and forth again and again, this can cause set back and a lot of journey.
Transmutation skill is so important that in our guild we take anyone who doesn't have it might they be lv1/1 or 5/5 or 20/20 it's something that needs to be addressed early on and people know the skill that when they get to lv 50 they know what they are doing.
Makara should be moved to Eltibule so transmutation skill can be introduced to the crowd earlier and it's a more accessible place.

[xerandus]

I'm kind of curious, in regards to close combat, how did we get from the Povus lamp lighting "It only takes me about 30 minutes, in pretty shoddy gear" to "And I learned that city fighting... sucks in this game". That sounds like very different statements. What changed? Personally I managed to solo the lamp lighting once, took me about 40 minutes with really, really good gear and luck that the only ghosts were in the Annex. I also managed not to die, which required a lot of care in advancing through the city.

I definitely agree with the more recent statement - that close combat sucks. The first one or two invasion waves after the lamp lighting are typically easier than the lamp lighting, probably because the enemies are concentrated in one or two regions of the city and not spread over the entire city, and consist of just 2-3 kinds of enemies. Some of the other Povus events, particularly the flapskull and the Ranalon one with the megafauna, you get such concentrations of enemies that fighting in the city is almost untenable, even with a couple full groups. We've largely adapted by fighting outside the city and pulling enemies out in ones and twos. The Povusaloosa events are probably different (I've always been busy with something IRL when they have been held) but I gather there were enough people on hand to overcome those difficulties.

[Edit]

In regards to needing more max level characters to get better data: Yes, there are many, many ways that skills can be combined. But if a combination isn't deemed viable, you aren't going to get a lot of data on that if you want to make changes. For instance, two skills without ranged attacks presents some difficulties when playing solo. It might be good for a tank in a group, but not when you have to chase down enemy archers/mages and beat on them in melee range, while possibly being hit by other ranged attacks at the same time. I recall leveling unarmed/battle chem on one of my alts, and though BC burst have 10m range, that really doesn't cut it when dealing with the ranged attackers in rahu desert, for instance.

[Tandiril]

I'm kind of curious, in regards to close combat, how did we get from the Povus lamp lighting "It only takes me about 30 minutes, in pretty shoddy gear" to "And I learned that city fighting... sucks in this game".

I have never heard anybody say that lighting lamps solo in pretty shoddy gear is possible, let alone in 30 minutes, ever. Really curious where you heard that. I agree with the lamp lighting, the waves after are much easier usually, so maybe reducing the necessary amount of lit lamps per area (let's say by half) might also help a lot in keeping people engaged in Povus.

[xerandus]

I have never heard anybody say that lighting lamps solo in pretty shoddy gear is possible, let alone in 30 minutes, ever. Really curious where you heard that. I agree with the lamp lighting, the waves after are much easier usually, so maybe reducing the necessary amount of lit lamps per area (let's say by half) might also help a lot in keeping people engaged in Povus.

It was Citan on Discord. That was a direct quote.

[Tandiril]

It was Citan on Discord. That was a direct quote.

Wow I missed that one xD maybe the admin boosts were still on :D
On a more serious note, my experiences are similar to what you described, really good gear and you still need to tread carefully.

[Tinlaar]

Some ideas that I'm going to throw in:
-For the level 30s, I feel like the player is supposed to go to Sun Vale first, then head to Kur. Up until Eltibule, the game does a good job at pointing players where to go. Getting thrown into the brick wall that is Kur would scare off some players initially. The players just get dropped into an empty white plane and be expected to explore while the heat meter drops quickly. Yes, I know fires are a thing, but of course nobody wants to spend all that wood just to explore out in the middle of nowhere, or spend councils when the game is so money hungry. This has a relatively easy fix. The animal nexus could connect to Sun Vale, and players can take a boat to the west banks of Kur from the docks. This makes it a much easier run to Kur Village to regenerate heat, and opens up bartering with Ukorga for winter gear to help them explore further. The animal nexus also serves a purpose as the connective tissue between Sun Vale and Eltibule, instead of being a one-time dungeon that doesn't provide anything substantial aside from a few winterprize gems.
-Add more soloable content for level 50 players. Rahu's only 1/3 complete, and I definitely want to see it being a good leveling spot for level 50+ players. Rahu sewers does get very old over time. While the war caches are good for building up an arsenal of better gear, there are a few that require getting better gear to survive them in the first place. Say for example the one with the Rakshasa fire mage being a miniboss. Without good enough gear with evasion, mitigation or healing, regular players will be completely curbstomped by this guy.
-Speaking of DoTs, I feel like it really makes no sense that they bypass armor somehow. I've seen even high level players get burned to death on the reg, while they could solo elites just fine. Why not just calculate the damage in terms of the total damage divided by the number of ticks? For example, a DoT effect deals 480 damage over 6 ticks. Just apply the normal damage formula DMG=(ATT*VUL-FDR)*%DR, then divide the value of DMG by 6. Voila, armor mitigation is considered in the calculation.
-And speaking of damage calculation, by using that formula above, flat damage reduction is significantly less valuable than vulnerability reduction or % damage mitigation, and VUL reduction is better than %DR when both have the same values. My solution to this would be to put FDR at the back, so the formula becomes DMG=ATT*VUL*%DR-FDR. That way, FDR works as advertised, and VUL reduction has the same effect as %DR.
-Add a mod glossary in the skills tab for every combat skill, as well as recommended skill combos for every role in the trinity. Say for example staff is recommended to be paired with shield if you're playing a tank. This gives more direction for newer players that just learned transmutation and are starting to plan their builds.

[Yaffy]

Some ideas that I'm going to throw in:
-And speaking of damage calculation, by using that formula above, flat damage reduction is significantly less valuable than vulnerability reduction or % damage mitigation, and VUL reduction is better than %DR when both have the same values. My solution to this would be to put FDR at the back, so the formula becomes DMG=ATT*VUL*%DR-FDR. That way, FDR works as advertised, and VUL reduction has the same effect as %DR.

I made a post about this recently and why this isn't a good idea, because it does work this way for certain damage mitigation sources and it lets Staff/Shield become essentially invincible too easily.

I would love it if the flat damage reduction from armor scaled better, because it goes from god-tier at early game to basically useless at end game, but making flat damage reduction scale perfectly would be way too strong for staff players who can get hundreds of flat damage reduction compared to a normal player who probably won't even reach 50 flat damage reduction in a level 80 armor set.

[Celerity]

so the formula becomes DMG=ATT*VUL*%DR-FDR. That way, FDR works as advertised, and VUL reduction has the same effect as %DR

This would be a pretty big buff to flat damage mitigation that's not really needed. Tanks, or rather specifically staff/shield is already op. It would need to be accompanied by a complete recalculation of all the flat damage mitigation numbers to keep the balance the same. I do like the idea in theory though for simplifying things.

Speaking of DoTs, I feel like it really makes no sense that they bypass armor somehow. I've seen even high level players get burned to death on the reg, while they could solo elites just fine

This +1, I don't know if the idea of armour reducing them is the solution, but ever since the dot rework, basically all enemy dots in the game got roughly doubled in strength. Ever since then they have always been the most dangerous thing in the game and a rakshasa fire mage or a fire droach is at least twice as strong as anything else that's the same level. Hopefully this is something Citan is addressing.

I would add my ideas of potential quit moments (going to Kur rather than SV, transmutation as a core game mechanic being hidden away in a high level zone etc.) but I've already talked about them in more detail in the past on both these forums and discord.