Welcome to Project: Gorgon!


Project: Gorgon is a 3D fantasy MMORPG (massively-multiplayer online role-playing game) that features an immersive experience that allows the player to forge their own path through exploration and discovery. We won't be guiding you through a world on rails, and as a result there are many hidden secrets awaiting discovery. Project: Gorgon also features an ambitious skill based leveling system that bucks the current trend of pre-determined classes, thus allowing the player to combine skills in order to create a truly unique playing experience.

The Project: Gorgon development team is led by industry veteran Eric Heimburg. Eric has over a decade of experience working as a Senior and Lead Engineer, Developer, Designer and Producer on successful games such as Asheron’s Call 1 and 2, Star Trek Online and other successful Massively Multiplayer Online Games.



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  1. #21
    Senior Member Glythe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post

    Crafting..

    See the pattern?
    I read this and im like.. ok the issue is explained but not understood as an issue.
    The OP talks about problems gearing and then people talk about giving handouts to new players struggling..

    This isnt a dig at glythe it's the same thing i see everywhere on these forums of long term players pointing out the issues but not seeing it themself and giving tips on the loopholes, when really being a new player in the current games development is much different from back then and things will slowly continue to change but will never again get that "new player" feeling of weakness and stuff, like how necro was gained from touching a shrine before to get instant access to never hurt another undead with lord of undead skills, now you gota destroy a dungeon and slaughter a strong boss which is nuts for a new player to consider, but people will carry you through, and yet again getting help from those that have been here for a long time... this pattern that people aren't seeing will not be good for the "fun" game in the long run.

    I see a flaw in the gearing system, just like diablo 3 had, since the transmutation and augmentation are almost identical to diablo 3, and diablo 3 had it's problems of gearing issues.

    I mean even Path of Exile has "solo self found" character options and people love that shit.
    My first character was self found. I went to dungeons over and over and over so that eventually I had all yellow armor where 4/5 mods were correct. This took a long time and a lot of grinding. You are welcome to do it this way if you want.


    As for the crafting.... Join a guild. Find someone who does the skill for the work order you have. Buy all the mats, give them the exact mats and say : 10 quality chairs please. If the crafter is not busy they will likely not mind. If you are that guy who says, "hey what do quality chairs need I see a work order on this board"; then you make my eyes roll. You can get up to ~25 industry in the first month if you stick with it. You can get up to 40 in the next month and by that time you will likely be filling half of your own orders and be on your way with tradeskills. Spoiler alert for anyone wanting to learn augmentation : you need leatherworking, alchemy, blacksmithing, toolcrafting and carpentry at level 25 to get all of the augmentation skills. He set the game up so you become a crafter (or at least a novice once).

    I was broke as hell and there was no casino. NO CASINO! Let that sink in because I see people who have been playing for a week get carried in dungeons like it is no big deal. Earning money/loot was running from dungeon A-B-C-D-E and selling what you got. It sucked. People told me about industry and I tried it. Be patient with it and you will learn a tradeskill for free. It is not as fast as the casino and takes more time to get where you make all the money you will ever need but it is totally worth it to be independent of the player market prices. If you are a little bit on the lazy side you can buy industry potions from Qatik.

    I often shout in global asking for people looking to join a guild in the 40-50+ range because I know how much it sucks to not be able to progress with gear. The thing you need to realize about aug/trans and gear mods is that they make you insanely powerful. He has the game setup so it is supposed to take you a lot of time/effort to learn to do them. This is good for the game so that you can't wiggle your nose and go from being lvl 0 to a perfect geared 70 in ~2 weeks.

    It might sound hard to believe but 1 character in a strong build with good synergy in perfect level 70 gear is worth about 3-4 players in "whatever" gear/builds. That kind of power level increase needs to be gated. Also I think you do not start with Aug/Trans because there is already so much to do and learn when you play this game. But I would love to see a level 35/40 quest where one of the npcs offers you a high reward mission to go see Makara.

    As for Augmentation.... there are NPCs now who can add things to your gear. You can ask in global with the right mats and someone will extract powers for you. This is the friendliest community in a game I have ever seen; you would be wise to make use of it instead of being a hermit. That being said Kudos to you for going on the forum and posting.

  2. #22
    Member Celerity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    Crafting..
    Crafting..
    See the pattern?
    Crafting is just one option, lots of people also talk about the millions they make from skin farming but everyone and their mother knows about skin farming since it is already talked about so much. The entire point of an advice thread is to give the maybe less obvious solutions such as industry which are often overlooked by newer players. Skin farming is also mentioned by me and several others already as a viable and effective money making method but you seem to have willfully ignored this.

    Some of the best industry work orders in the game; 10 royal jellies for 60k, 5 phoenix eggs for 120k, 5 fairy icehearts for 48k and all the trophy skin work orders. These are all combat acquirable only and although I will admit 90% of early industry is crafting, it's just something to consider.

    As for crafted gear you can get someone else to craft it for you and avoid 100% of all crafting in the game and still get your top end set. Either that or you can bite the bullet and go for not max-enchanted (gasp) gear from dungeon drops which is probably around 5x easier than crafting max-enchanted yellows and in most cases barely affects your strength since there's not usually enough really good mods on every single gear piece to make a big difference, and even if there is, all content in the game can be cleared by people in a set of reds so it's not like you're locked out of any content or it makes the content significantly easier either.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    when really being a new player in the current games development is much different from back then
    You're correct, being a new player "back then" was probably 2-3x harder than it is now, depending on when "back then" was; you used to need a belt to get any loot attuned to you at all, all monsters used to drop less rare loot, boss mobs especially got a massive boost to their loot dropped, crafting got a buff to the rarity of equipment it gave, at one point yellow loot literally didn't exist, there used to be a lot of useless mods in the past which were removed, most skills have received buffs as time has gone on; notable exceptions being sword, fire magic and archery as well as the damage calculation changes but most of this was only relevant for end game builds, not new players. There was also no transmutation and no augmentation, which despite what you might say ARE fully available right from the beginning to all players, sure you need someone else to extract the augments for you and for transmutation you have to run to the desert but you can technically get them both very early on. And depending on how far back you look, you could also see no elite mobs, who have an increased chance of loot, no casino, so no dailies or gambling for easy money, fewer dungeons so fewer chests and bosses to farm, fewer active players so fewer people to craft things for you or group with, no player vendors or work order board so more difficult to acquire items, no guilds so no free money for new players every week, the barter options weren't in the game so fewer chances to get gear, combat refreshes were weaker and probably a ton more things I'm missing. The only things that have made the game harder were a couple of times mob hp was buffed very slightly, something like a few percent with no perceivable difference at the lower levels, and the introduction of crits which again are not a mechanic which affects low level content.

    This doesn't mean I'm saying the game should go back to how it was, I think it was too difficult back then and I welcome all of these changes which made the game easier. I'm just using them as an example to show that you essentially have no idea what you're talking about since you seem to be implying the game was easier in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    like how necro was gained from touching a shrine before to get instant access to never hurt another undead with lord of undead skills, now you gota destroy a dungeon and slaughter a strong boss which is nuts for a new player to consider
    I don't see how it's "nuts" for a player to group up in order to kill a boss, or for a player to simply wait a little until they're a higher level before doing so. You mentioned yourself they can be carried through early if they really want access to it immediately anyway. Is it also nuts to get 50 alchemy for battle chemistry or 25 fire magic/rabbit plus a quest for ice magic? In my opinion that's just something which makes the game more interesting. Having access to all skills immediately would just be overwhelming for a new player and also just make the game shallower since that's one less thing you have to work towards.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    This gives way more power to my previous suggestion than i realised it needed.. to have the trans and aug be shifted to tutorial island and unlocked from the new player start as a backbone option for the game since crafting is the end all of treasure hunting
    Not the worst idea but it would make the game shallower in my opinion and would need to be accompanied by a big buff to all mobs since you would be making the game insanely easy. At the moment you can clear all content up to lvl 50 relatively easily in white gear so giving this kind of power that early on would just result in steamrolling content otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    And if it is like that then im like "why bother?" just to farm?
    I can't has treasure? unless im stupid lucky or just ask trade chat for a crafted set to bypass the fun alltogether.. D:


    Just get yer surveying for travel gems and gather whatever it is for whatever craft you wanna do... boom end game character
    It is far easier to farm group dungeon elites to gear up than it is to farm even just the mats (ignoring the cost of leveling the skill) for crafting gear. Group dungeon elites only become available at 45 with yeti cave but considering you mentioned end game I guess this would be available. The main advantage of crafted gear is that it can be made max-enchanted, which is only available starting at lvl 50 and realistically you're not going to make a set until you get to the max level, which not only is much more difficult, for not much more reward than just a normal yellow set but means it isn't relevant to new players at all AND there's absolutely 0 requirement for you to level it up yourself if you really hate crafting that much since other people can craft for you.

    You mention "bypassing the fun" though which makes me confused because I thought you said you hated crafting but now you're saying it's fun? Either that or you're implying that farming the crafting mats is somehow free and bypassing requirements when it's significantly harder than just farming the gear yourself from drops.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    Needing crafters is fine and all, but give people the option to use bluetac and sticktape to fix up their found gear with trans and augs if they want without needing to dive headfirst into 5 skills of crafting to get the 1/3rd max skill levels needed to quest for the damn skill in a frozen wasteland of death to unlock competence in character progression and entertainment.
    Feels pretty 1 sided here for everyone who isn't interested in crafting and is forced to purchase a set.. forced..
    There is no requirement to learn transmutation other than favour and augmentation is 100% optional since other people can extract the augments for you. If you want to argue that you have to learn augmentation in order to get the prisms I would direct you to the player market where prisms are sold constantly, and in fact many players I know never decompose anything since in most cases it is more cost effective to buy prisms from the player market and use them to distill items only.

    As for the "forced" to purchase a set, just same point again, you don't need max-enchanted, you don't need any crafted gear ever, dungeon gear is easier to obtain and in most cases very comparable in terms of power it provides.
    Last edited by Celerity; 02-10-2020 at 01:36 PM.

  3. #23
    Member Delfofthebla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glythe View Post
    You can weight crafted items. If I make an item I can choose which power should have more modifiers. With augmentation I can add a power to remove power choices from the possible rolls. When I roll what I want for one of the skills, I can add a different augmentation (remove the first) and block powers from the other skillset. I have been where you are; without aug and trans the game feels very different if you are over level 50 and struggling.
    Can you elaborate more on this? How exactly do you choose which has more rolls? Is it just the primary vs auxiliary gem choice? And if you use augmentation to "block" a power, is that so that you can reroll a different mod with transmutation?
    I've played quite a bit of Path of Exile so I'm no stranger to advanced crafting methods like this on gear, but what you describe sounds pretty expensive on the augmentation side of things. Am I understanding your strategy correctly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glythe View Post
    This may come as a shock but you are not supposed to play everything.
    I have seen many posts and statements from citan, mods, admins, and senior players that state exactly what you just said. This may be the developer's intentions, but the way the game is designed, I have to disagree completely.

    Because the game actively encourages players to level up every single skill in the entire game through several aspects:

    1) You are not restricted from doing so.
    The simple ability to level everything makes it seem as though you should. After all, if a skill is useful, why wouldn't you want to level it? It's a natural player inclination to want to expand and perfect their character. Whether it's a good idea or not, people will strive for this if you let them.

    "Who cares if it's way too expensive to learn that skill, it will be worth it later!" - Some poor noob who burned out and quit.

    2) Many skills provide bonuses to other skills.
    These bonuses allow you to get access to greater strength despite not having payed for a higher skill cap. This gives the player a sense of power and progression. Moreover, if you are the type of player that wishes to min-max, you must get the highest skill cap possible. This means leveling more skills.

    3) Many skills are required to properly self-sustain other skills.
    Let's say I want to do cooking. Well, that means I need gardening, foraging, fishing and possibly butchering too. As evident by this thread, I will also need Armor Augmentation in the future if I wish to perfect my gear. (I need ALL of the aug skills but let's gloss over that for now eh?) Well it seems l need 25 leatherworking and 25 alchemy for that, which is not achievable (by myself) without achieving similar levels in Tanning, Mycology, and Fishing.

    See what just happened? I only want two things (Cooking/Armor Augmentation) and already I have been forced to level 7 additional skills!

    4) NPC's that offer valuable services (such as vendor, storage, or your skill trainer) often provide another service that encourages you to seek out another tradeskill.
    Let's say that I am a skinner, and I want to get favor with Nishika for the sole purpose of surpassing level 50. Lucky for me, this is an NPC with storage as well, so I have a really good reason to gain favor with this her. However, Nishika is also the trainer for Butchering. Fancy that!

    Now, I may have achieved my initial goal of unlocking skinning, but now that I have her favor high enough, I can also train butchering. I know that getting favor with this NPC was costly, and I know that a higher butcher skill will help me immensely with favor farming other NPC's, as well as with my cooking skill, which is important to me. I am now committed to leveling up butchering to take advantage of my previous effort.

    Since I am a skinner (and now a god damn leatherworker...), I am also a tanner. I want to get the most value out of my skins, and money is always a problem, so now I vendor my leather rolls. In order to get the max value from this, I have gained favor with Amutasa to increase her vendor cash. Well, now that I have gained favor with Amutasa, I notice that she can train me in Toolcrafting and Carpentry, which are coincidentally required for other augmentation skills...

    This goes on and on and on...
    5) The player shop system is painful to use, and encourages you to just make/farm your own items.
    * You have to return to Serbule to use it despite it no longer being your home base as a higher level player. No other player shops are used.
    * Manually running between every shop and trying to remember which shop has what you need and which has the best offer is time consuming and annoying.
    * Certain items never show up in the search, even if the vendors possess the item. (I feel for people who try to sell Shaman Rat Belt's.)
    * It's impossible to search for gear or augments, effectively forcing players to train these skills for themselves.
    * Many players charge more than double the value of the item itself, encouraging you to simply scour the "Buy Used" tab instead to try and scoop up any item that noobs foolishly sell.

    6) Getting crafting services done by other players is awkward.
    First off, many crafting components are multi-tiered crafts that require many more ingredients to obtain. Let's say that I was an alchemist that decided "I am not supposed to level everything and so I will avoid mycology and fishing. This Swimming Potion I wish to craft requires 1x Milk Cap Mushroom powder and 1 eel fillet. Ok, so how the hell do I get those?

    I have two choices. 1: Go to the wiki (hint: the only real choice) or 2: Bother another player.
    "What items do I need to make that?"
    "Oh, well where do I get that?"
    "Oh, well what level do I need to be to pick that up?"
    "Oh. I'll check player shops."
    "I don't see any."
    "Well can I just buy it from you?"
    "Oh you don't have any either... Ok sorry to bother you."

    ^ Is an interaction I genuinely had when trying to see if I could have something crafted for me. If you do not have the sub-tradeskill required, you must go to the wiki to figure out what you need, and you must farm it yourself, which even then will require you to level at least one gathering skill. Even if the item I sought was on a player shop, I feel very confident that it would have been too expensive for me to feel justified in buying it.

    ---

    Note that I am not necessarily pursuing all of the aforementioned skills, but I've got my own branching tree of chaos that I am working towards. I just used these as an example based on what people have told me to do in this thread already. I hope it's easy to see how the game's design actually encourages the player to do more than what the developer actually intends.

    Sunk cost fallacy (whether through money or favor) is very real. And while favor and money act as barriers against training additional skills, they do not actually prevent the player from doing anything. It creates opportunities for a player to be spread thin, trying to chase too many unlocks, too many NPC's, and ultimately, a goal that will force him to quit.

    In the past decade or so, it is quickly becoming common knowledge that gamers will actively try to optimize the fun out of their gameplay for the sake of being efficient and perfect. It does not matter that the act is not fun, or that they ruin the experience for themselves. Players would sooner burn themselves out and quit before ceasing behavior that is against their own interest. It's just human nature.

    If we are truly supposed to rely on other players for crafting things, the process for doing so could be improved. And maybe just maybe, we should be more restricted in what skills we are allowed to train. Favor and money are not an effective answer to that problem. They merely sour the act of going through with it.
    Last edited by Delfofthebla; 02-10-2020 at 03:17 PM.

  4. #24
    Member Celerity's Avatar
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    @Delfofthebla It's subjective opinion but your points 2-4 are exactly what I love about this game since it gives it such a sense of interconnectedness and means that most of the time, whatever you're doing, it is helping your character even if you decide to completely change your combat skills for example.

    I think a lot can also be solved by slightly amending the statement to "you are not supposed to play everything at once". Sure eventually you'll want to get all the bonus levels but the important thing is just taking it all one step at a time and as long as you do that I think it's managable.
    Last edited by Celerity; 02-10-2020 at 04:51 PM.

  5. #25
    Member Delfofthebla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    @Delfofthebla It's subjective opinion but your points 2-4 are exactly what I love about this game since it gives it such a sense of interconnectedness and means that most of the time, whatever you're doing, it is helping your character even if you decide to completely change your combat skills for example.

    I think a lot can also be solved by slightly amending the statement to "you are not supposed to play everything at once". Sure eventually you'll want to get all the bonus levels but the important thing is just taking it all one step at a time and as long as you do that I think it's managable.
    I don't necessarily mind either, and I agree that the interconnectedness is a good feeling at its heart. I'm just saying that these points strongly encourage you to level every single skill in the entire game, and the resounding statement I've heard from everyone is "you're not supposed to do that".

    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    I think a lot can also be solved by slightly amending the statement to "you are not supposed to play everything at once".
    This isn't what people say though. And regardless of what people say, the game is all that matters, right? The game tells you to level everything and the game tells you to do it right now. Want to pick up that tree? Better level your foraging. Want to skin this higher level mob? Better work on your skinning. Want this tradeskill? Better learn 7 more first.

  6. #26
    Member AgentBbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    Crafting is just one option, lots of people also talk about the millions they make from skin farming but everyone and their mother knows about skin farming
    Sure, you and the other people who have been here for years, this post was about gearing as a new player, the crafting part was the best option to gearing up, kinda not sure where you are at here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    Skin farming is also mentioned by me and several others already as a viable and effective money making method but you seem to have willfully ignored this.
    Yes money making.. sure.. not gearing a character as a new player.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    Some of the best industry work orders in the game; 10 royal jellies for 60k, 5 phoenix eggs for 120k, 5 fairy icehearts for 48k and all the trophy skin work orders. These are all combat acquirable only and although I will admit 90% of early industry is crafting, it's just something to consider.
    Yep sure, and as a new player that's not a thing that is do-able.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    As for crafted gear you can get someone else to craft it for you and avoid 100% of all crafting in the game and still get your top end set.
    But you still can't avoid it 100%.. right? like you need to craft to get 25 skill in 5 skills to unlock transmutation to be able to farm drops into gems.
    And you need to get alchemy to 50 to get a combat skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    Either that or you can bite the bullet and go for not max-enchanted (gasp) gear from dungeon drops which is probably around 5x easier than crafting max-enchanted yellows and in most cases barely affects your strength since there's not usually enough really good mods on every single gear piece to make a big difference, and even if there is, all content in the game can be cleared by people in a set of reds so it's not like you're locked out of any content or it makes the content significantly easier either.
    Not sure a new player is going to do this, i think you missed a step.


    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    You're correct, being a new player "back then" was probably 2-3x harder than it is now
    Sure some stuff, not all the stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    most of this was only relevant for end game builds, not new players.
    Point of the post and current game as of now, aimed at new players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    There was also no transmutation and no augmentation, which despite what you might say ARE fully available right from the beginning to all players, sure you need someone else to extract the augments for you and for transmutation you have to run to the desert but you can technically get them both very early on.
    Get someone else to extract? uhuh.
    Hmm i guess the quest and 25 crafting skill in 5 skills is forgotten here.
    You also need favor, not just a desert run.
    So no to new players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    mob hp was buffed very slightly, something like a few percent with no perceivable difference at the lower levels
    It was buffed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    you essentially have no idea what you're talking about since you seem to be implying the game was easier in the past?
    No i referenced the necro touching a shrine instead of needing to kill a crypt boss, and how people have said many times in game they don't know the new changes because they did it all long ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    they can be carried through early if they really want access to it immediately anyway.
    Yeah carried through.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    Is it also nuts to get 50 alchemy for battle chemistry or 25 fire magic/rabbit plus a quest for ice magic? In my opinion that's just something which makes the game more interesting. Having access to all skills immediately would just be overwhelming for a new player and also just make the game shallower since that's one less thing you have to work towards.
    So yeah crafting for BC.
    I didn't see many restrictions with the fire magic, other than gathering the crafting resources, salt was ez to start off.
    "work towards" this game is not a job to me, i probably play this "game" less than you, probably by alot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    Not the worst idea but it would make the game shallower in my opinion and would need to be accompanied by a big buff to all mobs since you would be making the game insanely easy. At the moment you can clear all content up to lvl 50 relatively easily in white gear so giving this kind of power that early on would just result in steamrolling content otherwise.
    Sure in your opinion, but you can't redo your first time as a new player anymore, so your opinion is based on a different era.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    It is far easier to farm group dungeon elites to gear up than it is to farm even just the mats
    As a new player?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    elites only become available at 45 with yeti cave
    Ah, so no not new player.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    The main advantage of crafted gear is that it can be made max-enchanted, which is only available starting at lvl 50 and realistically you're not going to make a set until you get to the max level, which not only is much more difficult, for not much more reward than just a normal yellow set but means it isn't relevant to new players at all AND there's absolutely 0 requirement for you to level it up yourself if you really hate crafting that much since other people can craft for you.
    So you need to get someone else to craft it anyway or waste your time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    You mention "bypassing the fun" though which makes me confused because I thought you said you hated crafting but now you're saying it's fun? Either that or you're implying that farming the crafting mats is somehow free and bypassing requirements when it's significantly harder than just farming the gear yourself from drops.
    Nope, bypassing the games content of hunting and gathering, the transmuting and augmenting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    There is no requirement to learn transmutation other than favour
    So there is a requirement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    augmentation is 100% optional since other people can extract the augments for you.
    Yeah get someone else to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    If you want to argue that you have to learn augmentation in order to get the prisms I would direct you to the player market where prisms are sold constantly, and in fact many players I know never decompose anything since in most cases it is more cost effective to buy prisms from the player market and use them to distill items only.
    Do the players you know.. know about the skin farming? :O

    Quote Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
    As for the "forced" to purchase a set, just same point again, you don't need max-enchanted, you don't need any crafted gear ever, dungeon gear is easier to obtain and in most cases very comparable in terms of power it provides.
    Yeah not a new player option.

    So in my opinion, i don't think it would make the game as heartless and shallow as mentioned above, i think it would be a huge fun improvement having transmuting and augmenting added to the tutorial and unlocked without a quest or crafting skills and favor needed initially to get started, and since it was never done like that previously, we won't know, especially if people keep referring to it as "shallow" and "work" while contradicting themself without really knowing but just a gut feeling making them believe it since its been a long time from the time they were new.

  7. #27
    Member Celerity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    Sure, you and the other people who have been here for years, this post was about gearing as a new player, the crafting part was the best option to gearing up, kinda not sure where you are at here.
    Crafting is only the best option when you are a vet and have 1-2m to drop on a crafted set at the end game, for new players it is slower to farm the mats and get somebody else to craft for you or to learn the crafts yourself than it is to run an elite dungeon. The elite dungeons are also better since you earn cash in the process and can be easily done with groups because of the casino daily. The only reason a vet might craft to gear up their new build is because they have the resources to drop the extra money on it and crafting is faster if you already have all the materials. Prior to elite dungeons if you mean the really early game, the gear you get from bartering and the mismatch of blues and reds you might get from ordinary enemies is good enough to do all the content until you get to those elite dungeons. If you are struggling to do the dungeons in blues I think it's probably more likely that you aren't using your abilities effectively, not using good enough food or you aren't body pulling the mobs.

    You directly replied to Glythe's post about making 2 million from industry by saying "crafting" and that's what I was replying to about money making methods.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    Yes money making.. sure.. not gearing a character as a new player.
    You were the one who originally brought up this point about industry and how everything in the game is crafting. Additionally, money can buy mats -> other people can craft for you -> geared new character.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    Yep sure, and as a new player that's not a thing that is do-able.
    True, but you said
    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    since crafting is the end all of treasure hunting.
    I took this to mean you were saying end game is all crafting and that is end game and isn't crafting.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    But you still can't avoid it 100%.. right? like you need to craft to get 25 skill in 5 skills to unlock transmutation to be able to farm drops into gems.
    And you need to get alchemy to 50 to get a combat skill.
    Transmutation has no such requirement and I think you also fundamentally misunderstand what transmutation does.
    2 combat skills in the game have a crafting requirement to unlock them, battle chemistry and bard. Solution in my eyes is to simply avoid those combat skills if you hate crafting since you have another 23 combat skills all without a crafting requirement.

    You can avoid 100% of all crafting, I had a player in my guild who frequently did end game content with us who absolutely refused to learn any crafting skills whatsoever, he didn't even learn skinning or butchering yet he could still comfortably do the content with very comparable damage since he had yellow rerolled dungeon dropped gear and simply asked one of the guild members to extract augments for him whenever he needed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    Not sure a new player is going to do this, i think you missed a step.
    This was in response to you saying end game is just gathering stuff for whatever craft you want to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    Point of the post and current game as of now, aimed at new players.
    I was referring to the nerfs that sword, archery, lycan, hammer etc all had. The nerfs only affected the end game geared players who had stacked their mods, whereas the buffs affected new players, making the game easier for newer players.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    Get someone else to extract? uhuh.
    Hmm i guess the quest and 25 crafting skill in 5 skills is forgotten here.
    You also need favor, not just a desert run.
    So no to new players.
    Yes you're correct, when somebody else extracts you don't need any of the 5 crafting skills or the quest.
    Favour can be obtained to learn the skill with about 10-15 magical lvl 20 items. I literally watched a streamer do it without any help obtaining the items less than a week ago when he was around lvl 30. Yes this does require consulting the wiki or other players, but similarly you also can just not get the skill until lvl 50 and you will be fine, I'm pretty sure you could even make it to max level and not need it until you run the end game group dungeons.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    It was buffed.
    Yes, at high levels, not relevant for new players in nearly all cases. All cases where it affected the low level mobs were in pre-2015 which was before I started personally but I expect back then it was done because the game was likely too easy and an increase in the hp just made it more balanced, not suddenly impossible.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    No i referenced the necro touching a shrine instead of needing to kill a crypt boss, and how people have said many times in game they don't know the new changes because they did it all long ago.
    You mean the necro shrine that just moved forward one boss, i.e. you still had to kill khyrulek's first form and spider boss to get to it. This was only done because khyrulek's true form literally wasn't in the game at the time and it was a lot harder to group up for it back then due to a lower player count, but the devs still wanted players to test the skill. I would also say it's almost entirely irrelevant since it is the requirement for 1 of 25 combat skills in the game that was minorly changed. Most players are/were never affected by this change, hence people saying they didn't even know it had changed. And somehow I guess you would throw a fit once you learn that battle chemistry didn't used to require 50 alchemy to learn. That's a much more significant change and even then I would still pass it off as mostly irrelevant since it only affected 1 combat skill, a lot of players probably never even touch it or would have touched it.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    As a new player?

    Ah, so no not new player.
    I would class pre level 50 as a new player and before that my argument is you don't need anything better than blues which can be easily farmed from solo mobs, bosses and barters.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    So you need to get someone else to craft it anyway or waste your time?
    It's not wasting your time to just not get the absolute best gear in the game, which makes next to no difference in a lot of builds. Many players actually choose to deliberately not get crafted gear for their end game sets, usually for tanking, since dungeon dropped gear is actually better in a lot of cases. This is in reference to end game and I would say in reference to early game it literally does not matter either way since the gear will be replaced, and max-enchanted does not exist before lvl 50, and you said yourself that apparently lvl 45 isn't a new player. Even if we agreed level 50 was a new player, I would say close to 0 people in the entire game make lvl 50 max-enchanted gear since it's such a high cost for something which gets replaced so quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    Nope, bypassing the games content of hunting and gathering, the transmuting and augmenting.
    Are you saying crafting bypasses transmutation and augmentation? This is just completely incorrect. If you're saying transmutation and augmentation bypass hunting and gathering that is also completely incorrect since transmutation requires you to farm gear and distill it into phlog in order to do your rerolls and augmentation is a completely optional addition to your gear, where you still have to farm gear to get the correct mod and the baubles in order to extract the augment.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    So there is a requirement...
    Yes, favour which can be gained by handing a few pieces of magical gear to the npc which can easily be obtained with combat. There isn't even a training cost to learn it.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    Yeah get someone else to do it.
    Yes or completely skip it. I thought that's what you wanted to do. Is doing the augmentation personally really such a deal breaker for you? Or is it the fact that someone, somewhere had to do some crafting in order to unlock augmentation and the very idea that you even came into contact with someone who might have slightly dipped into crafting skills at some point in the past so disgusting to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    Do the players you know.. know about the skin farming? :O
    ???
    If you're trying to say buying prisms is obvious, then I was only trying to come up with something I thought you might say, since I've heard that argument before from other people. If you do indeed think it's obvious then I guess you agree that there are no crafting requirements whatsoever if you just want to focus on combat and your entire point about being "forced into crafting" is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentBbrian View Post
    Yeah not a new player option.
    The game isn't balanced around you being fully geared or even partially geared until you reach the level you can do elite dungeons at. Again I would also argue you're still a new player at the point you start doing elite dungeons too since potentially you can start them at around lvl 30 or even earlier if you do casino dailies.

  8. #28
    Member AgentBbrian's Avatar
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    Glad you agree on the most parts, not sure you get the sarcasm though.
    Was amused you cared so much about my emotions about crafting you call it disgusting.
    Also amused you counter my points by saying you know 1 other guy who did it.
    You prove my point about augmentation and transmutation though, all i needed was to typo/swap augment with transmute and you explain it better as to why it would be good and not a problem for them to be unlocked via tutorial at the start.

    The part where you talk about max enchanted stuff at 50, and then say it gets replaced so quickly, like.. what? you missed another step where you assume new players know what you are talking about, it's like you don't see the problem and go all trump.

  9. #29
    Member Delfofthebla's Avatar
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    I've come to a couple of very simple conclusions after reading all these posts, trying various things, and expanding my character.

    Having progression gated behind money is not fun.
    Having to pay to unlock skill caps for every single skill is not fun.
    Being forced to go into debt on several crafting skills to actually be able to make the money required to progress is not fun.
    Grinding the same zones over and over to get money, only to have to grind the same exact dungeons to get XP after you've unlocked it, is not fun.
    Farming money for the purpose of progression...is not fun.

    Project Gorgon, is actually not very fun.


    Level 1-50 was a solid 'demo' and a solid glimpse at what this game could have been, but I have come to realize that I do not enjoy the real thing. I wish the best to those that enjoy the money grind loop that is project gorgon, but me and my friends just couldn't handle the grind.
    Last edited by Delfofthebla; 03-02-2020 at 04:49 PM.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Sheawanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delfofthebla View Post

    I am a spider, and I don't think I'd put gems or paintings in the "easy" category, as they require several other tradeskills to obtain...

    Not to mention that the Endurance trainer won't even speak to animals. As a spider I at least can make it work for the cost of a moonstone, but if I didn't have the wiki it would cost at least 2 due to the nature of the gifts they want. You may have skins, wood, or sexy clothing on you, but there's no way you'd have enough right out the gate. And without the wiki I wouldn't have ever even known how to train this!


    I will try to take this information to heart, as I have only viewed my current tradeskills as a pure money dump until now. (Gardening, Cooking, Alchemy, Transmutation, Augmentation)

    I have skinning, and some tanning, but have not been converting the skins before selling them...
    Lamashu will speak to you if you use your spell insisdous illusions



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