Update Discussion: November 22, 2019

[Sims]

The update notes are here: https://forum.projectgorgon.com/show...vember-22-2019

Discussion is in this thread! But please remember to report any bugs through the in-game reporting system so we can track them.

[Oxlazr]

Curious as to why the no-flight rule was implemented now, mostly; being able to fly indoors as a giant bat was one of its most compelling features - I'm not likely to play one for awhile at least, but I wonder if people who regularly use that form will ultimately feel slighted as it seems to be a pretty significant change.

At any-rate, if they're no longer able to fly indoors, is there any harm in increasing their base flight movement speed now? It's fairly slow compared to the raven, as I recall.

[Deldaron]

Curious as to why the no-flight rule was implemented now, mostly; being able to fly indoors as a giant bat was one of its most compelling features - I'm not likely to play one for awhile at least, but I wonder if people who regularly use that form will ultimately feel slighted as it seems to be a pretty significant change.

At any-rate, if they're no longer able to fly indoors, is there any harm in increasing their base flight movement speed now? It's fairly slow compared to the raven, as I recall.

My guess (purely speculative) is that this is coming ahead of Fae release. Fae will have flying in some form and as flying in dungeons can be abused they probably won't be able to use it indoors so it made sense to not give that ability only to bat. There's also a chance they will share a flying mechanic. Just a guess, but I don't think we were really ever intended to count on that.

[Citan]

About flying indoors: in some dungeons it's possible to use flight to perch monsters without any danger. We've generally just brushed those issues aside because we have bigger issues to deal with, but as I prototype the upcoming playable fairy race, it becomes more pressing. Fairies, who have access to all combat skills, make it really obvious how broken indoor flight can be. I think the sanest solution is to just turn off flight in dungeons, so that's what we did.

As for why we didn't ground bats indoors in the first place, it was due to a technical limitation of how the giant bat flight was implemented. We couldn't disable giant bat flight indoors without stripping it off of them permanently (until they stopped being a bat and became a bat again). So we just left things kinda-exploitable until we had a better solution.

RE: giant bat flight speed, isn't there a flight-speed boost jewelry just for them already? If not they're probably due for one. We may also end up giving giant bats an improved innate indoor floaty-jump bonus, to allow for a bit of acrobatics in-dungeons. (Stuff we're experimenting with for fairies... if any of it makes the cut, we'll backport it to bats.) I also have some fun ideas of how Giant Bat will tie into Vampire synergy... though that's farther off.

[Ranperre]

RE: giant bat flight speed, isn't there a flight-speed boost jewelry just for them already? If not they're probably due for one.

I know of no jewelry.

Afaik bats get a main and offhand mod to increase flight speed. At 70 and 80, each mod gives 1.5 fast flying speed. Currently, a bat needs both of these mods in order to fly at the same speed as druids (pretty sure it's the exact same speed, so druids come with +3 fast flying speed). However, I believe druids can just equip giant bat, while not actually being a giant bat, in order to get the bonus too. Just like how you can equip rabbit/deer as a human and take advantage of their passive movement speed mods.

[Sasho]

About flying indoors: in some dungeons it's possible to use flight to perch monsters without any danger. We've generally just brushed those issues aside because we have bigger issues to deal with, but as I prototype the upcoming playable fairy race, it becomes more pressing. Fairies, who have access to all combat skills, make it really obvious how broken indoor flight can be. I think the sanest solution is to just turn off flight in dungeons, so that's what we did.

Not to be a party pooper, but what makes you think we can't still do this with a super jump word of power? If you disabled flying WoPs then you should also disable super jump wops. However, that will really take away my fun when I want to skip navigating certain dungeons like the Rahu Sewers, or if I just wanna jump to the top of Kur Tower to kill Lomas

[Sheawanna]

Not to be a party pooper, but what makes you think we can't still do this with a super jump word of power? If you disabled flying WoPs then you should also disable super jump wops. However, that will really take away my fun when I want to skip navigating certain dungeons like the Rahu Sewers, or if I just wanna jump to the top of Kur Tower to kill Lomas

in this I simply agree

[ProfessorCat]

About flying indoors: in some dungeons it's possible to use flight to perch monsters without any danger. We've generally just brushed those issues aside because we have bigger issues to deal with, but as I prototype the upcoming playable fairy race, it becomes more pressing. Fairies, who have access to all combat skills, make it really obvious how broken indoor flight can be. I think the sanest solution is to just turn off flight in dungeons, so that's what we did.

As for why we didn't ground bats indoors in the first place, it was due to a technical limitation of how the giant bat flight was implemented. We couldn't disable giant bat flight indoors without stripping it off of them permanently (until they stopped being a bat and became a bat again). So we just left things kinda-exploitable until we had a better solution.

With the new patch that disables the line of sight exploit, is it possible to come back to this thought? As said previously in this thread, one of the biggest appeals of being a flying race is being able to fly in a dungeon. Some dungeons like the Rahu Sewers or Serb Crypt wont have much to do with flying, however the Yeti cave was a delight to explore when flight was allowed. There's an entire rafters system that I'm sure wasn't meant to go un-witnessed! Flying up and out after killing Maligno was a victory lap compared to getting lost on the 'simple' switchback to get out.

If there is some aspect of indoor flight that goes beyond perching monsters, it wasn't quite addressed! I understand that development both limits and dictates what can happen in game. Removing flight indoors for bats (with the anticipation of Fae) felt like a step backwards from one of those "THAT'S SO COOL" moments that players were able to have. It felt like a justified removal, but if that issue is fixed, it just feels like toys are being taken away!

[BetaNotus]

Seven existing items that require Giant Bat as a form are listed below. None impact movement at this time.
Belt of the Batty Battler, Decent Bat Witch Hat, Nice Bat Witch Hat, Quality Bat Witch Hat, Great Bat Witch Hat, Amazing Bat Witch Hat, Astounding Bat Witch Hat.

[Sheawanna]

None effect movement , I understand why it was done . ( wanted to mention I do have a Indefatgable running claw level 70 (only bat haha ) that has sprint speed on it { but its sprint speed is + 0 yep that is a big fat ZERO ] .
Seriously we need some speed even with flying in dungeons my group would still run faster ahead of me , now I would not bother to enter a dungeon and expect my entire group to wait on my slow arse to catch up !!! .

If we can't fly and so few of us actually exist playing a bat , perhaps allow the bat to have innate bonus run speed ?
Btw … Loving your thought on vampire/bat synergy (suggested it long ago but love it ..) I felt if it was night within game the vampire could allow bat to change to human (only if spell was casted ) otherwise one would look as one would be myself would look sexy as a bat
Also allowing for extra damage if night it should be . We already bite :P