Welcome to Project: Gorgon!


Project: Gorgon is a 3D fantasy MMORPG (massively-multiplayer online role-playing game) that features an immersive experience that allows the player to forge their own path through exploration and discovery. We won't be guiding you through a world on rails, and as a result there are many hidden secrets awaiting discovery. Project: Gorgon also features an ambitious skill based leveling system that bucks the current trend of pre-determined classes, thus allowing the player to combine skills in order to create a truly unique playing experience.

The Project: Gorgon development team is led by industry veteran Eric Heimburg. Eric has over a decade of experience working as a Senior and Lead Engineer, Developer, Designer and Producer on successful games such as Asheron’s Call 1 and 2, Star Trek Online and other successful Massively Multiplayer Online Games.



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  1. #11
    Senior Member Yaffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mbaums View Post
    Side note, you forgot to mention booze-buffs. I had a 5.5% melee evasion beer at the brown ale level. I'm having trouble finding the effect on the JSON parser--but its a thing for sure.

    The pure evasion stuff is really nice, but wouldnt it go to trash once you got stunned? I'd call it more of a limitation to this analysis vs a flaw though.

    That potion is worth talking about, and I think with it stacking (in your bags) to 10, I'm not sure how I feel about using them. I have not been keeping an eye out on buy-used tabs for them so I don't have many. The curse time+effect is fairly rough, but I think I'm the only one who thinks of the curse as bad.

    It's worth testing in a group but I really see the test going like, "I pulled 6, it was going well until something stunned me".
    You're correct in that evasion is theoretically worse at reducing damage than outright resistance, but it's still very valuable. There isn't any sort of "Attack type resistance" to compare it too, but it does have the advantage of negating any negative effects attached to the attacks you evade. Because of that it means it can be better against debilitating enemies (Ex. Tacticians), which I think makes up for the fact it's theoretically worse if you potentially get stunned.

    My stance on evasion is that it's incredibly good for tanks AFTER you get proper mitigation up. Mostly that's because it scales well with normal mitigation and so you always have "Real" defense to fall back on if you get unlucky, including the unlucky scenario you get stunned through evasion/stun resistance.

    The chart I made is just me trying to weigh things for a sort of general sense. You're right in that evasion could be theoretically weighed lower since enemies can take away evasion, but can't take away resistance, but I think that should be judged by each individual player. I don't think I could come up with a good "Generic" number for everyone. Sword/Shield players could actually weigh it higher because they can become stun immune and therefore evasion would be strictly better on average. Werewolf/Deer/Bat players can temporarily hit 100% projectile evasion, in which case mobs with ranged stuns (Like the elementalist trainees) shouldn't be an issue, but only during those times they hit 100% evasion and so it should be judged by the individual.

    If you want to be simple/silly about it though, it's safe to say evasion has a 1:1 value with damage reduction, because 100% evasion to everything would allow you to dodge 100% of attacks and therefore take 100% less damage. This is probably not going to happen but it can theoretically boil down to that.
    Last edited by Yaffy; 06-21-2019 at 04:55 PM.

  2. #12
    Member Ranperre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaffy View Post
    In fact, it would actually be very unfair if all the damage types were spread out evenly, as some forms of resistance are very difficult to acquire.
    Stibnite (blue ore) states that it is used by blacksmiths to fireproof material. I hope/expect elemental mitigation to become more prevalent with armor smithing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Citan View Post
    But I'm still trying to make combat last long enough that a 12-second DoT isn't "lol that's useless since the combat will have been over for 11 seconds".
    The snails in GK are pretty close to what it sounds like you're wanting combat to be like. At 26k hp, it's harder for a single DPS to carry you (which they can through most of GK), and the fights usually take more than a few seconds if you're pulling one at a time in a good group.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mbaums View Post
    I had a 5.5% melee evasion beer at the brown ale level. I'm having trouble finding the effect on the JSON parser--but its a thing for sure.
    6.5% on Hegemony lager (side note, you can't make kegs of level 70 beer) + 7.5% bourbon. Although it's physically possible to juggle four drinks, three is much more manageable. So 20.5-27%.

  3. #13
    Junior Member Sunchaser's Avatar
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    Achievements First Post!
    Thank you for the post. While I think building mitigation based on the damage ratios you calculated in the chart will definitely be an improvement over 0th order approximations such as stacking only physical damage, or maximizing total unweighted sums of mitigations, I'd like to offer two potential 2nd order corrections to the above post, for the sake of discussion. Do note however that I am not a tank and all the arguments below are qualitative and based on intuitions. Quantitatively I'm not sure how big of an effect they have, and thus how worthy they are to be addressed. So I'd appreciate insight from you.

    Firstly, the weighted sums of damage taken considered, at least after the tanks have a mature build and won't die easily (and probably after distributing their mitigations based on your calculation), should instead be based on windows right before they die and when they nearly die. This is a point beyond the purpose of your post, which is a general improvement over unspecific stacking of mitigation. But I just wanted to put it out there.
    Essentially, for built/established tanks, my guess is that deaths are usually due to accidents such as pulling too many mobs at once, or fighting in an area where mobs respawn. The former is due to the inherent structure of the map, while the latter might also be due to the paths the tank/leader is taking (which probably forms a somewhat consistent pattern). As you mentioned, this is when any data such as combat logs will be useful. But even without it, one way to tackle this might just be to do a test run with one's common party in the map, pin down locations and frequencies of deaths, and do the weighted sum based on mobs in those locations.

    Second, even given a table of mobs whose damage mitigation is to be optimized (either across all elite mobs in the map or based on my first point), several temporal effects are to be considered that might favor stacking physical mitigation over other types of damage (such as fire), at least for a sufficiently coordinated party. In particular, in your post the assumption of random and uniform damage could be the first to be loosened and extended. If the party is able to focus down the fire damage dealing mobs, as well as using rage controls and stuns on them (which should be quite easy to remember, the mage-luts and the overseers are clearly fire-damage dealing etc..), then that'd apply a primacy-bias like filter to the damage taken, such that the fire damage taken is even less than average.
    In addition, active mitigation abilities like shield's elemental ward, where the defensibility is strong but only available over a limited window, should be more effective than its % up-time (e.g. 33%). In fact, this should be the minimal performance of such active mitigation skills, considering any damage patterns deviating from entirely uniform/random means there are time windows where the damage within exceeds 33%. (I actually wasn't sure why you said it'd be slightly less than that - are you referring to effects such as cast times? - and would appreciate clarifications.) The point here is that mobs usually have several typical ways of popping up (based on my limited experience). Either they just all come together, in which case the damage taken is highest at the beginning and monotonically decreasing. In such case, poping the fire shield at the beginning and focusing down any fire mobs will largely reduce such damage. Alternatively, If the mobs instead come at separate waves, then trying to maximally the overlap between them might be the way to go. This is of course assuming ~10s is enough to focus mobs down. But so long as it takes less than 30s to do so, then this is something that can be leveraged. Instead with the majority of elite mobs (11/16) dealing physical damage, it is relatively preferable to have physical mitigation being passive. Obviously, this point does not apply to skills without active mitigations (and I don't really know how many skill combos can work for tank, and how many of them have/don't have active mitigations), but based on a quick search of what you listed, seems like quite a few of them should take this into consideration (such as shield, deer, staff, and unarmed, iirc).
    Finally, I'd like to reiterate that this whole 2nd point should be considered as a perturbation from the mitigation ratio established from the table, constructed based on your post, instead of a point arguing against it.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Yaffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunchaser View Post
    As you mentioned, this is when any data such as combat logs will be useful. But even without it, one way to tackle this might just be to do a test run with one's common party in the map, pin down locations and frequencies of deaths, and do the weighted sum based on mobs in those locations.
    While you could do something like that in order to improve yourself, I think that's related a lot to playstyle, and isn't necessarily a good baseline to build around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunchaser View Post
    If the party is able to focus down the fire damage dealing mobs, as well as using rage controls and stuns on them (which should be quite easy to remember, the mage-luts and the overseers are clearly fire-damage dealing etc..), then that'd apply a primacy-bias like filter to the damage taken, such that the fire damage taken is even less than average.
    This is true, like I said, players have the ability to control the damage they take, but it's not a good idea to rely on this when building. For example, if you have a build that was heavily based on fire mitigation but had little physical mitigation, you could do the same except to physical mobs instead. It's still optimal for a player to have more balanced resists unless if they have full control over specific types of damage they're taking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunchaser View Post
    In addition, active mitigation abilities like shield's elemental ward, where the defensibility is strong but only available over a limited window, should be more effective than its % up-time (e.g. 33%). In fact, this should be the minimal performance of such active mitigation skills, considering any damage patterns deviating from entirely uniform/random means there are time windows where the damage within exceeds 33%. (I actually wasn't sure why you said it'd be slightly less than that - are you referring to effects such as cast times? - and would appreciate clarifications.)
    In a theoretical situation where the player is constantly in combat and fighting, the elemental ward's effectiveness would be 33%. You are correct that theoretically, it could nullify all damage potentially if the players simply refused to fight without it, but this is not what a "Good" tank player should be doing. 33% is not the minimal performance however, because that assumes the player will always get perfect efficiency out of the skill, which is highly unreasonable even if the player is very skilled (You would essentially need to be able to predict the future). Because of these two reasons, it's more appropriate to simply judge it based on the idea that it would be used efficiently all the time, but on cooldown. Also yes, the upkeep not being exactly 1/3 is because the animation time before the ability comes out makes it a bit slower, but it's pretty minor.

    Keep in mind that the purpose of weighing these stats isn't to come to a 100%, definite answer on how exactly the dungeon will play out. It's simply a way to try and get an numerical value to try and make decisions around. Yes, player input can change results, especially if done purposefully, but the purpose of weighing mitigation is to create a helpful build, without relying on the player playing in a specific way. Regardless of whether you are a good or bad player, estimates like this will help you get a better idea of what to expect in the dungeon and therefore what you should build with it.

    Basically, when I say "The value of this mitigation is X%", I am not saying it WILL reduce damage by that much, but that the player should consider putting it into their build instead other sources that have a lower value in order to consistently lower damage as much as possible.

    I would personally agree with my own chart for the most part, although I have made several generalizations which I believe do not make it as accurate as I would personally like (As I stated in my original post). If you believe there is a strong reason to increase/decrease the weight of a certain mitigation source or damage source for yourself personally, then I would highly suggest you do so! However, the specific chart I posted is simply one that "Tries to keep things simple", and should in my opinion, be accurate enough for those who are not sure how to weigh things on their own (Such as those who are unfamiliar with tanking GK). For those who wish to tank very seriously, my post was meant to encourage them to weigh things on their own, using my method as an example of how it could be done.
    Last edited by Yaffy; 06-22-2019 at 12:26 AM.



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