Welcome to Project: Gorgon!


Project: Gorgon is a 3D fantasy MMORPG (massively-multiplayer online role-playing game) that features an immersive experience that allows the player to forge their own path through exploration and discovery. We won't be guiding you through a world on rails, and as a result there are many hidden secrets awaiting discovery. Project: Gorgon also features an ambitious skill based leveling system that bucks the current trend of pre-determined classes, thus allowing the player to combine skills in order to create a truly unique playing experience.

The Project: Gorgon development team is led by industry veteran Eric Heimburg. Eric has over a decade of experience working as a Senior and Lead Engineer, Developer, Designer and Producer on successful games such as Asheron’s Call 1 and 2, Star Trek Online and other successful Massively Multiplayer Online Games.



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Thread: Price controls
  1. #1
    Senior Member Golliathe's Avatar
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    Price controls

    What do you guys think about the player market?

    Let me limit the scope of that question a bit and ask:

    1. How do you feel about market monopolies and price gouging?

    For all its flaws one thing I thought was neat about black desert was that there was a maximum and minimum you could price items to sell in the market. Let's not mention the other market flaws as this game isn't even close in structure in that regard.

    The simple question is how would you feel if stomachs could be sold on player vendors for say 500-2000 councils and they would not sell them for more (or less)? This would also prevent lemons being sold for 1,000,000 c.

    *note* that if you wanted you could stand around in town and sell stomachs for 3,000-4,000 if you wanted.

    Should everything be limited? No. But if you sat down and thought about it... you could pretty easily make a list of things that really probably shouldn't be able to be exploited. Here are a few items to consider : metal bars (ahem... shame on you people for trying to sell the simplest version for well past 150c), gems, glowy crystals/vervadium, runestones, etc.


    You may not be aware but every game always has some people who have been labeled professional bank sitters (label origin from UO and their magic bank system). In this game you will see people who go around to vendors, buy everything priced fair/cheap and resell them.

    The short version is that this creates greed, angst, and overall just takes away progress from low level characters who are forced to pay a premium because they have no other choice.

    But such a system only works when there are no price controls. Why? Because Mr. Banker has to sit in town and try to gouge people for his goods. He can't really go out and adventure if his vendor refuses to "steal from the poor".

    *before it gets mentioned: I am not in the poor category. I have more bank slots than a number of rich people I know and a hefty amount of cash on hand; I also have no expenses aside from any new undertakings I wish to begin.*

    2) Let's look at a few items!

    We already have a listing for stomachs. And no before anyone asks I have all the cheese/stomachs I need right now so the current stomach debacle isn't affecting me.

    a. What do you think about stomach gouging?
    b. what do you feel about runestone gouging?
    c. How would you feel if there was a "blanket" check on all items (with a few exceptions for the ilmari outliers) that prevented more than a 20x cost increase of the original item? As an example that would reprice many tier 1 books from 200-4000c in price.


    3) Before you weigh in I just want to point out to you that there are some people with 10-100m who basically can buy out any influence most people think they might have in the market.

    You'll see things like: someone posts 500 gems at 200 each. And then a banker comes along and buys all those gems - to hold and reprice at 400+ each. Largely speaking no one is going to pay 400 for a gem unless they want 1-3 or something like that. But when priced at 200 each people will gladly buy 30-50 at a time. This is good for the market and helps keep a friendly atmosphere.

  2. #2
    Member DamageIncorp's Avatar
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    Price controls are not good for the market and actually create dead weight loss.
    There are no monopolies in game.
    If you invest the time, you can hoard anything you like.
    If you don't have the time, you might have to pay a steeper price. Either way, every decision comes with an opportunity cost.
    Let's keep the market free!

  3. #3
    Member Ranperre's Avatar
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    Rule of acquisition #285 : No good deed goes unpunished.

    Who gets to set the price range? It couldn't be tied to value, as many items are worth over 20x their value and it wouldn't be reasonable to have our 2-3 devs manually price items. I'm one of the people that can afford to pay 4-500c per gem. But if they get that expensive, it becomes worth it to me on a cost per hour basis to survey for my own. That's how almost everything is in this game for base materials (e.g. stomachs, gems, slabs). Also, neither you nor anybody else has a right to be able to buy things in the market at a given price. Go put up a work order. This is a transitory problem that will go away when the cap is raised.

  4. #4
    Member Deldaron's Avatar
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    I agree with Ranperre's points here - it gets messy and complicated if you try and cap the market. However, I have definitely seen instances where I can't find an item on the markets that I'm looking for at a fair price and, while I don't buy to resell, if I see something well priced that I need a lot of and don't foresee grinding for soon I'll often buy out the stock leaving just the the poorly priced alternative and I do not think I'm alone in this regard.

    I think one thing to keep in mind that goes often underutilized is the player work order board. I use a TON of nightmare flesh and I don't find much so I'm always tossing up orders and they usually get filled. If you can't find a fair price in the markets you can turn here.

    As a counter point to vervadium, stomachs, and runestones (which are expensive because they are in high supply or low demand) let's look at gems. A year ago the standard price for gems was about 300 - I've seen it at a steady 200 and last I checked it sat around 250. You still see people sell them for 400+ but I've rarely seen moments where there were no gems for under 300 even if there wasn't the gem I needed. I actually think this is underpriced and the market keeps it low because players are willing to price what they think is fair.

    One thing I think I could get behind is if items purchased in the market could not be sold in the market (either ever or within x hours/days). This would at least prevent buying for the sole purpose of market control, though I admit I have no idea how complicated this would be to implement.

    On a final note, I don't actually think the market is broken. If someone is gouging too much people won't buy the items, if people don't buy the items they lose out and then the next time someone posts at a fair price the bank sitters either don't buy it or they adjust their price to a market acceptable price. This gives those that are getting bought out two options, increase their price to match or sit tight and enjoy the benefit of quick sell out. So gems become 400 instead of 200 for most of the market and those that sell for under sell out faster. Keeps it lively. Also - if an item is routinely overpriced at market that's not an abuse it's an opportunity. Gather the items to sell and sell them at a fair price - announce your price in global and convince the market that the bank sitter is gouging them.

  5. #5
    Member Celler's Avatar
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    Stuff given freely with limited effort involved from an event on player stalls at 30k plus prices to be honest I dislike .

    I don't like it when new folks are lead to believe things are worth a certain price, when many would gladly give them those items were they to know they needed them.

    All that said, I would not like many controls, apart from perhaps the ability to limit the amount an account can buy from you and the ability to blacklist an account from trading with you at all.

    I have not run a shop in a long time, last time I did all the cheap stuff I put up for new folks just went to re sellers.

    If folks want to try and make a game within the game of market domination etc. I can live with that but thankfully I'm pretty self sufficient.

  6. #6
    Member poulter's Avatar
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    I am against price gouging /market manipulation, but I don't think price control by the game is a good idea either.

    I would rather see a 'don't sell to' feature (like /ignore) where I (as a player-vendor) could decline to sell items to people I deem to be non-desirables e.g. gougers (or even for RP purposes).

    People don't have to buy at inflated prices: they choose to do so, but reputation should matter and gougers might learn from the downside that there are penalties in PG if you consistently display what is judged by many to be 'poor' behaviour.

    And yes, I do occasionally price some rare items at exceedingly high values, but more for bragging rights, rather than with an expectation of them selling.

    Market impact of gouging
    For example - Gem pricing:
    I used to buy 200+ /week from players (& did so for years), but now if the price is above 250 /gem, I survey my own.
    This results in new players no longer benefiting from 'quick' cash and I spend a few hours /week surveying.

    As I can make c. 60k councils /hour, the issue for me is not the price of items, but convenience and my desire to avoid feeling being 'ripped off'.

    I believe people buy by choice, not necessity, as they could grind the items and sellers should be free to set whatever price they want, whilst gougers /market manipulators should experience negative reputation impacts.
    Last edited by poulter; 03-27-2019 at 10:50 AM.

  7. #7
    Member Mbaums's Avatar
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    This post was clearly influenced by the recent changes in the stomach market. Stomachs are critical for cheese making and after milk-stacking changes and buffs to cheese, the market responded. For the longest time, it was understood "it's not worth farming stomachs, just sell animal skins and buy stomachs from players". This is the economic result. The price of 2-4k per stomach is the result of the importance of cheese, the ease of cheese making, potions to make cheese last longer, and the scarcity of stomachs.

  8. #8
    Member Celler's Avatar
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    I have never really bought stomachs, there easy enough to farm if I just want cheese for my own use.

    There are a few things within game I would consider needing a few more loot drops, fae felt, lace and the materials needed for fire training, perhaps there are drop spots I'm missing though.

    I suppose it's a playstyle thing.
    I 'd rather go get what I need and have the variety of that. Rather than maxing income at all times and just buying whats required.

    I do feel much like poulter, with a game with such variety, players playing different ways should be encouraged in the main and if folks take it beyond what is reasonable there loss of place or value within the community will suffer more than likely.

  9. #9
    Member SassySusie's Avatar
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    With the stomach prices, I check all shops daily for stomachs, I will not buy any that are over 2500. In my opinion (only because I am leveling Cheesemaking) they are worth 2500 to me. But then that causes cheese prices to go up also. I can collect them on my own, I choose not to lol, and with all this money that will mean nothing at full release why not use it on leveling more skills up.

  10. #10
    Member Mbaums's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SassySusie View Post
    ...
    Just a recommendation-- Don't buy from shops. Put in work orders for ~1.5k-2k or so, and I'm sure it will be filled within the week.



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