Welcome to Project: Gorgon!


Project: Gorgon is a 3D fantasy MMORPG (massively-multiplayer online role-playing game) that features an immersive experience that allows the player to forge their own path through exploration and discovery. We won't be guiding you through a world on rails, and as a result there are many hidden secrets awaiting discovery. Project: Gorgon also features an ambitious skill based leveling system that bucks the current trend of pre-determined classes, thus allowing the player to combine skills in order to create a truly unique playing experience.

The Project: Gorgon development team is led by industry veteran Eric Heimburg. Eric has over a decade of experience working as a Senior and Lead Engineer, Developer, Designer and Producer on successful games such as Asheron’s Call 1 and 2, Star Trek Online and other successful Massively Multiplayer Online Games.



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  1. #1
    Member Golliathe's Avatar
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    Transmutation rolling for Gear must change

    This previous week with no durability loss gave us all an interesting look at this game with a "limitless" progression mechanic. I took full advantage of that and made some armor sets exactly as I desired. This included a fully enchanted max set (did not quite get the second pair of boots made). I would humbly request that we do something to change this progression aspect of the game. Having only 4 rolls per week coupled with a beyond annoying rolling rng pattern could easily kill the game for "less intense" people. Let me also point out that I spent half the week raising my skill to cap from 50 so I could make the armor.

    Let me be nice first as I really do this game, its spirit and most of the mechanics in it (/cough praetermitto : critical hits). But hard capping players on the rolls for their gear in a game were something like 85% of your power is directly related to the mods on your gear is not a good idea. With that in mind I will offer some suggestions that would in my opinion be more fair than roll 4 times and come back next week. I hope by the way that is not a limiting mechanic to make people want to play something else for a while (seriously doubt it but I must mention it).

    Let's do some math.

    1. Phlog sells for 60 and you buy it for 120. With that in mind let's pretend that its value is somewhere in the middle around 90 c. Note that I consider this value a joke as you might blow up a piece of gear worth over 1000c and only get 12x nice phlog. Anyway let's stick with 90?

    2. Each roll for a piece of gear will cost you 35 Phlog (because who is gonna waste it on gear that is : mainskill/endurance). In short this means every time you roll it costs you 3000c.

    3. I forgot to mention you need to fight level 60-70 monsters to even get an opportunity to blow up items in the first place. And you also need to be lucky enough to have that juicy yellow to roll on anyway.

    4. The rolling pattern in this game is completely insane. I often get the pattern where it will go : a,b,a,b,a,b,c,a,b,a,d,a,b,a,b,a. Bear in mind this is a month's worth of rolls and 16x 3000= 48,000 councils.

    5. As a point of comparison a friend of mine spent over 5200 phlog to fix 2 pieces of yellow gear that were at least 1/3 correct. That comes out to around 500,000 councils. And it only would have taken about 19 weeks to get that result. Excuse me? (and let me note here one of these pieces was a ring so it had one less stat he needed to roll on!). I know one of my items took 2000 phlog and another took less than 300 phlog (btw think that was a one time deal as it rolled almost perfect anyway).

    The TLDNR version is that this is complete bullshit. With that in mind I would like to suggest alternatives to make things feel less Herculean. Generally speaking I kinda feel like you should be able to get at least one piece of armor fixed per month (hopefully faster- maybe a week?).


    I. You could make each roll for each power modifier slot be sequential with no random a-b-a-b bs pattern but leave it as it stands now with 4 rolls per week via durability. You could still make things interesting in that each piece of gear for any slot had a scrambled order it would roll... so you dont know if the power you want is 1 roll away or 7 rolls away (pattern might change to a-d-f-c-h-b-e-i-g).

    I like this option as it gives people a sequential and gradual guarantee at armor. One of the classes I play has 76 potential treasure effects on gear. Note that 6 pieces of the treasure have 9 effects to choose from. Someone with more time on their hands can make some nice combination math for us but I don't think it is necessary.

    This would take a long time to fix some armor but you could make very real progress each week. In this example assume 6 pieces pieces of gear with 9 rolls (assume everything were wrong) on yellow gear that had 3 treasure effects. You would fix each slot by the 6th roll no matter what. So within 18 rolls you would have half of this armor fixed. That means just over a month in time to fix half of 1 item and 54,000 councils spent. If we considered using augmentation to block undesired rolls then we would be looking at fixing each slot within 5 rolls.

    I would be "ok" with this option as it gives someone the guarantee of steady chipping. If you log in and do your rolls each week you can possibly fix half your boots in a months time (along with your coat, ring, etc if you can afford it).

    II. We could change the durability repair recipes into something else. What if we changed the recipes so that you had an infinite rolling option with a time gated cooldown (replaces small prism repair recipe - cooldown 24 hrs: makes level 0-50 item have infinite rerolls for 24 hrs). Every item still gets 4 "free" rolls per week. The medium repair recipe would be changed to - cooldown 72 hrs : make level 50-60 item have infinite rerolls for 3 days). Likewise the high end option would become - cooldown 168 hours : make lvl 60-90 item have infinite rerolls for 7 days.

    I like this option as it lets you do a focused "I will fix these damn boots NOW" sort of thing. It still requires you to eat prisms and as we discussed before is still going to cost you 3,000 councils per roll. Almost makes sports betting look appealing right?

    III. Why not both?

    Once per week players could infinitely roll on one end game item or 2 lvl 50 items (or 1 50/ 1 60 item). Essentially this means players could make one max gear item per week. You could limit the transfusion repair recipes so that only you can infuse infinite rolling on your gear.

    IV. Maybe there is a combat trial thing we could implement?

    What if you had a varied combat arena that included scaling encounters: tanky boss, horde of weak enemies, group of strong enemies, few annoying mobs - like ice root elementals with ranged blaster mob support, boss+ minions for later waves, etc.

    Long story short you scale the encounter and the reward is some degree of "infinite rolling for a time" ; the idea being that someone who had a full build set could get more free reroll time. Why? Because it lets them actually play with treasure effects rather than feel under the gun to replace items that became legacy.

    V. Maybe one of the rotating weekend events (extra health, more industry turn in, run faster) could be infinite durability rerolling.

    Closing thoughts

    -What do you expect the time/cost for items to be (as a player or GM)? The current limitations have been compared to black desert (this is not a good thing).

    - I would love to see one of the Admins create 50,000 nice phlog and complete a perfectly pre-planned armor set via infinite rolling (jsw1rz4n from : http://www.gorgonexplorer.com/build-planner) . How long does it take you (in other words how many rolls? What is the total phlog cost. Citan, I'm asking you or Jack to go into the game and just roll until it happens. On this note I will start working on a 3rd armor set and keep a complete track of time/phlog. And yes before you ask... that armor loadout is AMAZING! It will be the new....coldness.

    -It's somewhat unfair that I got to make armor during the infinite roll period. But it gave me a look into how the game should be in my opinion - where it doesn't take weeks or months to make an end gear item.

    -Thank you for making a great game! I take the time for this post because I want it to be a more enjoyable experience for everyone.

    -The tagline for "let's try some new treasure effects" kinda felt like a slap in the face considering all the stops necessary to make an item you wanted. I got beyond lucky in that I need only purple gloves with max enchanted and made 2 pairs. I made one a travel run set and another be a "what if" combat set. Note I already had a nice pair of gloves too. As much as I would love to play with the new mods you really just can't easily do that.

    But what if you made a testing zone where players could "rent" gear that only lasts for an hour? For that matter have the zone be a Gazluk Keep clone with a vendor at the start to make whatever treasure items you wanted to test.

    Only allow people in for strategic testing purposes. Call in some big names and have them show you their gear and then they say... well I want to try - blah blah blah.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Niph's Avatar
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    A few thoughts:

    1. Since you roll only 4 times a week, on a limited number of items, the cost doesn't matter if you can accumulate enough phlogistons every week. Being able to get them in one day, and just playing for fun the rest of the week seems very possible to me. Working on all pieces of a set is an exception, you're likely to work only on a couple items a week, as you loot better stuff.

    2. If you think the RNG is cheating on you, record every reroll and make some stats. So far it doesn't seem bugged to me, and bad sequence are always likely to happen. The fact you remember them is completely psychological and is a super-common bias.

    3. The true measure of difficulty is how long it takes, starting from a set with random mods, to obtain a perfect set. Making a perfect set of purple gear is much, much faster than a perfect set of max-enchanted yellow gear. I believe the game is balanced around you using the former.

    Every additional mod to transmute is a multiplier to the time it takes: it's exponential. Underestimating exponential progression is another super-common bias. I'm a recurrent victim of it at work.

    4. If the game doesn't "force" you to grind a bit, you consume all the content too fast.

  3. #3
    Member Yaffy's Avatar
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    I feel like the time gating on transmutation is there to encourage you to go and find other gear. If you fail at transmuting one item, then instead of waiting a week you can try to find another similar item. Then if you fail at transmuting that then you can either get another, or now if you wait a week you can transmute twice as much the next week.

    As for the unfair pattern of mods you get, you definitely don't have an equal chance to get all mods on items, which explains why you might see certain mods much more than others. I have no idea about the values or anything but the devs have stated that base damage mods are significantly more likely to appear on gear on the patch notes, which proves that mod frequency is weighted.

    As quoted from one of the patch notes:
    "As a side-effect of cleaning up some old treasure system mechanics, the drop-chances of some treasure effects have changed. Most notably, effects that boost base-damage (e.g. "Sword Base Damage +X%") used to drop at a rate 15x higher than regular mods; they now drop 5x as often. "

    So what this means is that depending on what mods you're going for, you might have to spend significantly more phlog in order to get it. Especially if you're trying to roll against something like base damage boosts. This is going to affect how much money/phlog you'll be using greatly. The problem is that as far as I'm aware, there's no way to tell what frequency certain mods appear, or even if transmutation is affected in the same way. Maybe if you use the write to book function you might be able to estimate after a large period of time.

    If transmutation is affected by weighted mod rolls then a lot of frustration could be removed just from knowing what the chances are of getting certain mods. At least that way you can plan ahead and try and manipulate mods in order to get what you want more easily, and so you know you might need to dump a ton of phlog into something rather than blindly spending all of it first and then realizing it's not a common mod.
    Last edited by Yaffy; 03-05-2019 at 12:34 PM.

  4. #4
    Member poulter's Avatar
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    As someone who has crafted c. 30 sets of max-crafted & augmented gear at level 70, I can confirm that it is both time consuming and difficult - by design.

    It is a deliberate mechanism to minimise economic inflation and provide end-game players with something to aspire to (many of whom can easily earn 250k + councils within 2 days once /week).

    A 'perfect' modded max-crafted set of gold gear is a huge advantage in game and represents the best available gear.

    It is unbalanced in game-terms, but obtainable by anyone who can commit to the time required. Being obtainable by anyone (whether by crafting it yourself, or buying from another player) requires extensive playing time (which appears to be a fundamental principle in the design of PG i.e. the more time you play, the more rewards you have access to.

    For the game to remain challenging, it should not be 'quick & easy' to obtain. Plus if everyone had max-crafted gold gear, then the mobs would need their specifications and abilities raised - leading to an increasing cycle of 'monster' inflation.

  5. #5
    Member Deldaron's Avatar
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    One thing to consider is using augmentation in this equation. It doesn't speak to your points, which I do understand, but it can speed things up.

    For instance you have a max enchanted yellow item with two skills, say sword/shield. You've theory crafted and you want to have 4 sword skills and 3 shield in the end. The first thing I would do is use augmentation to apply a shield skill I do not want to the item then begin re-rolling shield mods. Because you can't roll into an existing mod this removes that mod from the re-roll equation. Then when all 3 shield skills are set, apply a rarer (i.e. not +X% dmg) desirable sword mod before you begin re-rolling the sword skills.

    I do think a week CD after 4 rolls can be tolling, but I like that it's a week long so that it doesn't give an advantage to players who are on every day. I would be interested in greater durability, per slot durability (which in essence gives you higher odds the less aligned the item is with your end goal and then flattens down to its current state (or less) when you have just 1 mod left), or an option not mentioned here: NPCs that will sell you re-rolls for additional chances (but maybe also on a CD/limit).

    I like @Yaffy 's point about knowing what the weights are - this would be done with a tooltip that shows up when you mouseover a mod/item with similar color patterns where yellow was rarest and green was common. Then you could use the above augmentation approach more effectively.

    But another thing to consider is that you're talking about maximizing gear to its absolute fullest, but this is not necessary to enjoy the game and get together a decent GK run/do endgame. I have had a fine time with multiple sets where each item had unused mod slots. In a game like project gorgon maximization should be a slow and long process. Keep crafting until you have gear that has all of your big hitters/mods central to your build and then you can do it passively. The returns on those last mods will be rather small and you'll already have a set that can survive most content.

  6. #6
    Member ErDrick's Avatar
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    All I can say is I tried to reroll for a specific mod, I used 1600 nice phlogston, didn't get the mod. 1600 phlog worth of gear is a lot of money I didn't have to spend on skills.

    Did not particularly feel like farming another 1600 to fail again, but when I did decide to the event ended anyways ( but I cant blame anyone for that).

    I like the idea of it being sequential even if it takes 8-9 rolls vs random could work 1st try, could fail 9,752,124 times.

    If the reroll had worked, I would have then tried to reroll complimentary mods on 3 other pieces btw.
    Last edited by ErDrick; 03-05-2019 at 01:26 PM.

  7. #7
    Member DamageIncorp's Avatar
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    Is it possible to shamanically infuse gear in addition to modding it out?

  8. #8
    Member Deldaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamageIncorp View Post
    Is it possible to shamanically infuse gear in addition to modding it out?
    You can do transmutation and shamanic infusion, but you have to do the transmutation first. Gear with shamanic infusion will throw and error - you can "undo augment" if you have the appropriate augmentation skill to remove the SI to then start re-rolling the item again. You cannot add a mod through augmentation and also use shamanic infusion as they both require 100 enhancement points.

  9.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #9
    Administrator Citan's Avatar
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    Actually, I just made some tweaks to Transmutation costs for the next game update. I was also JUST NOW taking a walk and thinking about a way to show transmutation possibilities in-game. And then came home to read this thread. Weird. Anyway, I definitely want the game to be more communicative about Transmutation. Not sure what the time table there is -- could be next update, if my crazy implementation idea works -- will have to see.

  10. #10
    Senior Member INXS's Avatar
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    I think the way the system is it's actually fine, the chances per week the repair cool down gives a gradual achievement of a full set which shouldn't be done in a few days. My biggest problem with it is the rng, the rng it's so not rng, rolling 4 times and getting same treasure twice is bullshit, 3 times on 8 rolls give me back my nice phlog. The reason it will take 19 weeks is because the system needs desperately to be addressed and fixed I would definitely prefer a rotating system of the left over available and a randomness that negates the same treasure to reappear in 4 tries.

    As for an Admin to play the game and such, both of our Admin have played the game for years and have rolled plenty of treasures for their gear



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