Welcome to Project: Gorgon!


Project: Gorgon is a 3D fantasy MMORPG (massively-multiplayer online role-playing game) that features an immersive experience that allows the player to forge their own path through exploration and discovery. We won't be guiding you through a world on rails, and as a result there are many hidden secrets awaiting discovery. Project: Gorgon also features an ambitious skill based leveling system that bucks the current trend of pre-determined classes, thus allowing the player to combine skills in order to create a truly unique playing experience.

The Project: Gorgon development team is led by industry veteran Eric Heimburg. Eric has over a decade of experience working as a Senior and Lead Engineer, Developer, Designer and Producer on successful games such as Asheron’s Call 1 and 2, Star Trek Online and other successful Massively Multiplayer Online Games.



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  1. #1
    Junior Member Azarik's Avatar
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    The Economy is lacking

    Currently all I have really seen of some player interaction trading is base resources. An economy of laziness for lack of a better term. It is just based on what higher levels dont want to do themselves, like gather mushrooms or something. Which is fine to an extent for the poor and lower levels to have a way to money. But it seems to end there and that is due to the way gear works and lack of PVP.

    From what I have gathered gear drops are tailored to the skills you are using at the time. I switch to fire magic and suddenly I get gear tailored to it. While nice early game this is very bad and detrimental to an economy. It has turned so much gear into vendor trash. Even though there seems to ve different rarities it is just trash. Why buy something from someone knowing you will get something just as good if not better as loot? Gear drops need to be more random and not just for you to use, so you can trade with others. The point of an MMO is to interact with others afterall.

    Lack of PVP is also a crucial detriment to an economy. Like it or not it is a core to MMOs. Now I know this community gets triggered by PVP talk but it is needed. Dont get me wrong it doesnt need complex pvp like ESO. Runescape style with full loot and a pvp zone would do just fine. Balance isnt hard as long as each method is viable. You could even work in some gear bonuses against certain damage types so you could build to be a fire mage killer then shit yourself at the sight of an ice mage. It wouldnt be hard to have such basic pvp.

    As fot how PVP effects PVE, well that is simple. If you have a group that doesnt like skilling and only wants PVP they have to buy gear from the PVE people, enhanced vy full loot pvp. It is wonderful to have the world go around like that. If a game is too much PVE you end up with a community of blacksmiths trying to sell each other swords, it doesnt work.

    Im not saying it has to be added now, there is still plenty to do witg PVE. Just nearing the time for full release PVE should be done enough for this basic PVP style to ve added. The plan has to be there, rather than just we are skipping pvp. Too much PVE and you have a co op RPG not an MMO.

  2. #2
    Member Leodane's Avatar
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    I think maybe you're playing the wrong MMO for you.

    It's fine that you like to play a certain way, but everything you list as a negative about this game are the things I like the most about it. I like that lowbies can make money gathering things for sale, and I like that high level players can decide to spend time to save money or spend money to save time. I LOVE that my gear comes from monsters and not an auction house - it gives me a reason to risk my neck in dungeons with monsters around my level. I love that there is no PvP - nearly 100% of the balance discussions in these forums have a productive, positive tone, and I think it is BECAUSE there is no real PvP - improving an underpowered skill results in an overall gain for the entire player base, not a gain for users of that skill and a loss for everyone playing against that skill.

    I respect that you enjoy a certain type of game, but I don't think you're going to be happy with this one.

  3. #3
    Junior Member Azarik's Avatar
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    Lowbies making money like that is fine. My point is that it shouldnt be the entire economy. Getting gear from drops is one thing, having it tailored made for you is another. Specific gear should come from luck of a drop, trading, or crafting.

    Balancing can be done without effecting skills too much, it is often a mistake made in MMOs to nerf and buff them too much. You just need gear witg bonuses and weaknesses to focus builds on rather than what skills are most powerful.

    You say this is the wrong MMO for me, but are you sure you want an MMO? Because honestly the way I see things working as they are this game is about as MMO as Monster Hunter.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Aionlasting's Avatar
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    I think you've touched on an interesting dilemma with the loot system and its effects on the economy. There was a time when your skill set did not affect the loot that dropped. It was tied to what belt you were wearing.. lol. I don't know if prior to that , we had a system that disregarded your belt's skillsets and was completely random, because I wasn't paying too much attention before the belt system. I was playing the game in a web browser at that time and very confused about the whole experience.

    I do think the loot system creates a problem for the economy being only requests for crafting materials by high level players as this tends to be what you mostly see for sale on vendors and what the request boards have but I also don't think PVP is the answer to this.

    This issue can be addressed by changing entirely how loot drops or decreasing the frequency that your skillset effects drops at both of which don't require attention to pvp.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Mikhaila's Avatar
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    You're so focused on wanting PVP that you can't see the economy all around you. This isn't whatever other game you are used to, it doesn't behave the same. You're conclusions are incorrect and then you think PVP is the answer.

    -The economy is huge. The amount of buying and selling going on is very surprising for the population.
    -There are many ways to make money, so many ways, because players are going through materials to raise skills continuously.
    -People need :
    All metal slabs
    All wood
    Gems
    Rubywalls
    Fruit
    Meat
    Spices of all types
    Any type of claw, eyeball, tail....I spent days buying supplies for Shaman Infusions, and would gladly have bought from a player, hundreds of each.
    Rare Skill books
    Recipe that only drop off monsters
    Poetry books,
    Inks , Acids and other things that are only player crafted.

    Finished products always in demand:
    -storage boxes
    -arrows
    -winter armor
    -food
    -drinks ............Just this catagory is huge. Food and snacks are a resource all players burn through.
    -Alchemy potions.

    The list goes on and on. I can't even keep my vendor full for a day. Any raw material sells out, finished goods sell well. I tried to restock twice a day and just wore myself out.

    Economy is buying and selling of anything in the game between players. It's currently very robust.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Mikhaila's Avatar
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    So far I haven't seen anything you've said that shows that an economy needs PVP.

    Nor any proof that PVP is essential for an MMO. We could argue this one for years, but you can't just say "if you're an mmo you have to have PVP".

    And saying "Balancing shouldn't be to hard" is just silly. You have no idea of what it would take. But you're insisting someone else do the work.
    Last edited by Mikhaila; 04-25-2018 at 02:06 PM.

  7. #7
    Junior Member Azarik's Avatar
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    An economy that is just basic bitch grunt work is not one that is robust. It is one that is lazy. It boils down to I dont want to collect my own materials, you go do it for me newbie.

    I havent found sword and armor crafting yet, but if and when it is in you wont find people buying your crafted gear then. You cant sell a sword to a blacksmith and you have an entire community of blacksmiths. Fletching I know is in, and in this if I am using a bow and the game isnt broad enough to keep me busy with more things I will just make my own arrows. Why would I ever buy arrows? If I looked at the economy and saw gathering is the best thing to sell I would skip the middle man and gather what I need.

    If you cant understand the simple concept of how PVP and PVE have a symbiotic relationship I cant help you more than I already have. PVPers can litterally boil down to this bores me, but gathering is easier than training crafting myself so I will sell materials to fund my PVP. Giving PVE crafters resources and the ability to actually sell their wares. I want to sell swords, not metal ingots.

  8. #8
    Member Krustydog's Avatar
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    Just my opinion-WoW is a pve game. It's all about raiding. But truth be told the glory years were because of pvp. When they added arena the game sky rocketed. Now that they are ignoring and have lost their pvp base the game is fading. Just make it like UO Fel/Tram. You don't want to pvp? Don't go to Fel. BUT Fel awarded double resources so made it worthwhile. UO was a magnificent game with a place for everybody. I would love to see this game be the same.

  9. #9
    Member Oqua's Avatar
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    Let me ask you a very fair question. If whatever your idea of a "perfect pvp system" was implemented how would it effect the economy as it is now?

    In my experience there are two basic types of pvp: pvp for nothing gained that can be traded/used/sold ect.

    and the more popular pvp where you pvp for the goal of getting "stuff" be it equipment or things that may or may not be traded/sold.

    If they put in type 1 it wont effect the economy, if they put in type 2 it would have to be "better" then the stuff or equipment that is out there already making those crafting/gathering skills obsolete.

    So how would pvp effect the economy? people are going to do combat or not, pvp generally does not excite the not combat player into combat, so again how would pvp change that?

  10.   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #10
    Administrator Citan's Avatar
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    Hey guys, we aren't going to add PvP centric features, and we aren't going to add item destruction (which is why PvP can onstensibly help an MMO's economy). Those are not the only way to make an economy work, and in my opinion they cause a million times more problems than they solve.

    We've already tried the notion of item destruction with our player base during alpha (in the form of crafting recipes that have a chance to destroy your items -- nobody used them no matter how good they were). Losing items is literally never a fun thing to happen. If the game offers any alternative methods to get or use gear that avoids a chance to lose items, players will always take those routes every single time. Human beings are loss-averse. We could MAKE players lose items by forcing universal item loss. But this is a fun game, not a punishment simulator. We are not going to be destroying players' items.

    And even if we did, PvP economies are always shitty anyway. Yeah, the crafters get more work, but players are miserable, always hoarding their best gear and never using it because it might break or get lost. Using "good enough" gear all the time, and always trying to make sure you have a big pile of shit gear to use in case problems arise. That's not fun. It's boring meta-management in order to prevent bigger losses. We already have plenty of meta-management and I'm not adding more in order to appease PvP hawks.

    ---

    That said, don't mistake the in-game item creation recipes for all of the game's crafting. Those are recipes for solo players -- or players with close friends who also play -- to create gear. They aren't supposed to replace group hunting for gear. Group monster-hunting and solo item-crafting are two alternative ways to reaching the same goal of having good gear. Neither are designed with inter-player trading in mind.

    At the highest levels of the game (which are not yet implemented), crafting will take on additional roles in the form of temporary but long-term buffs (e.g. sword makers can add +10% damage to your sword that lasts for a real-time month). Other transaction-based crafting interactions already exist, such as trading augmentations.

    Those sorts of interactions will become more critical at high level. But they will never be needed at low level because low level players already have more than enough things to worry about as it is.

    ---

    The idea that PvP or item-loss "fixes" a game's economy is based on the notion that players will stick around and suffer through a lot of punishment, literally suffering for years because the game is just so damned good otherwise. The idea that a UO-style Trammel scenario could work in a major modern game is 100% fantasy. Players have hundreds of MMO choices now, and since they don't HAVE to suffer through that shit, they simply won't. Rule of thumb: if a game design requires the constant anguish of players in order to work, it's not coming back.

    But hey, maybe there's a game design that's fun enough for that. (This isn't it.) And maybe there's a community out there willing to slog through constantly being beaten back to the stone age in order to play this fun game for years. But Project: Gorgon's community has not shown any willingness to do that. I guess more importantly, I personally am not willing to do that, so it ain't happening.

    But if you have a brilliant idea for how to make it work, a way to keep PvPers from the inevitable burnout that creates ghost-towns ("it's dead now, but it had a great crafting community for a while" being the epitaph of too many MMOs), then I encourage you to give it a shot. I'd love to cross-promote with other indie MMOs who tailor to different audiences. But please don't try to shove those ideas here where they very clearly don't belong.



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