Welcome to Project: Gorgon!


Project: Gorgon is a 3D fantasy MMORPG (massively-multiplayer online role-playing game) that features an immersive experience that allows the player to forge their own path through exploration and discovery. We won't be guiding you through a world on rails, and as a result there are many hidden secrets awaiting discovery. Project: Gorgon also features an ambitious skill based leveling system that bucks the current trend of pre-determined classes, thus allowing the player to combine skills in order to create a truly unique playing experience.

The Project: Gorgon development team is led by industry veteran Eric Heimburg. Eric has over a decade of experience working as a Senior and Lead Engineer, Developer, Designer and Producer on successful games such as Asheron’s Call 1 and 2, Star Trek Online and other successful Massively Multiplayer Online Games.



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  1. #21
    Senior Member Tagamogi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fellentier View Post
    I didn't make this post to boast, I kept all of that out because i'm not trying to describe a way to make money. I made this post to HELP MAKE THE GAME BETTER. That's why there aren't charts and analysis of why you can make l33t cash here. I just, simply, want to make the game a better game. I don't feel compelled to explain in absolute analysis why I did the way I did and how much I made, because I honestly don't want to make that public, I want to see this game become better withotu everyone rushing to abuse the latest mechanic. So please, forgive me of what you consider " 130,000 councils/hour is simply hyperbolic" but I have found out how to achieve this, but I won't be sharing it. Not because I want it for myself, but because I want the problem fixed.
    I kind of disagree with that. If you are stating that something is overpowered because it makes too much money, then I want to see how much money it makes how in what amount of time with what requirements, so I can compare it to other money making options. Looking at sudostaph's numbers, he gives about 60K hour for skinning only which is considerably better than the next highest money per hour of 37.5K for looting. So, if you are saying you are making 70K an hour on the panthers excluding skins, then that seems to be more overpowered than the skinning.

    I can understand not wanting to share something if you consider it to be an exploit, but I'd suggest at least putting in a bug report to let the devs know, so that someone will have the actual numbers. Also, imo, the nice thing about pretty much any money-making method in the game is that the more people do it, the less profitable it becomes. If we suddenly have 10 people camping those panthers, profits for panther farming will drop drastically.

    I'm not sure about the value of skins. I make my money off leatherworking which feels a bit too fast and easy, so if the value of skins would drop, the lw work orders would drop in price, and I'd see a bit less of a profit. Which may not be a bad thing, but I'm still kind of unsure how other money-making schemes compare. I don't want to feel that I have to skip leatherworking and farm mobs instead because that is going to be 3-4 times more profitable... ( I still haven't made it through the initial post because I'm stuck on the concept that anyone would want to farm panthers for hours. I'd probably fall asleep 6 minutes into that.)

  2. #22
    Senior Member Mikhaila's Avatar
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    Or just decreasing the amount of panthers by 75% period. They don't have a huge niche to fill other than AOE farming. Quality skins? Which having 20 panthers would be fine for if you need those for level 50 armor.

  3. #23
    Member fellentier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikhaila View Post
    I'm going to disagree with your opinion that skinning is the problem, not panthers. You made a perfect build for doing panthers. Panthers have a high population, and a good spot to do AOE with room to run. You spend hours and hours doing it.

    Skinning isn't the problem. It's the combination of things resulting in a cash cow that many people build towards. You've found a way to maximize it and after months of doing it feel it's a problem.

    I agree, because if one way to make money is many times greater than anything else, it should be toned down. But do it with a scalpel, and not a large brush. You want to change an entire skill that is not OP for everyone else, just the people farming panthers with AOE builds.

    I feel like you didn't really read what I wrote and just jumped to the comments, previous posts seemed very inline with discussion. This didn't.

    My article had nothing to do with retuning AoE for panthers, if that's what you got out of it, then you weren't paying attention. Please don't jump to conclusions or take offense, the point of what I engaged in is for the betterment of the game, not personal benefit. Random thoughts and opinions won't help the betterment of the conversation. I suggest that we return to a direct suggestion approach rather then making lambaste comments about others ideas.

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    Let us not get political in our descent into opinion, discrediting others is NOT the path to becoming better informed, rather, creating a foundation for oneself to speak from is the path we should take.

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    In relating to the other comments posted above, the point isn't necessarily the profit per hour. I am going to say this one last time and then move myself away from the thread and let it continue it's coarse and see where it goes from here.

    Productive dialogue to help create a better game and improve upon mechanics to make a more immersive and interactive crafting system. If you read the article, any of the 19 pages, you would know that was was the point of what I was trying to make. Yes, panthers were a main part of the first five or six pages, but the main point was to discuss (as the first few posters read and stated very graciously, {I highly appreciate that feedback!!!} that the comparison between tailoring, black-smithing and leather-working is note quite in line.) professions and their impact in relation to the economy and how they uniquely function. This was never supposed to be an ego trip about max profit per hour. I am going to quit debating that notion here and only respond to on-topic discussions. If you wish to continue talking about the max achievable revenue, please do- but I will not be apart of it.
    Last edited by fellentier; 04-06-2018 at 09:42 AM.
    ~Lycanthropomorphic Bull Sage~

  4. #24
    Senior Member Crissa's Avatar
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    @fellentier The profitability of panthers is directly related to their density and spawn rate. If they're so notably different, that would be the simplest fix. It would also send skin-and-sell across the zones, spreading out the impact and making more zones options for someone trying to do this path.

    Changing the panthers may solve the three problems you mentioned: That more than one person at the panthers reduces their profitability so much; that panthers are more profitable than other spawns; that panthers are more profitable than other crafts.

  5. #25
    Junior Member Hubris's Avatar
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    Achievements First Post!

    I have tried skinning Panthers en masse...Sure its great!

    Skinning Panthers? It's great, but who wants to honestly sit there and Statler and Waldorf Panthers all day? I usually do It once a week for a few hours to sell out my Leatherworkers for the Week...If anything I'd like to see a similar Great or Amazing Skin spot in Gazluk...but I digress...So Anyway... after Skinning I move onto Potions, Armor, Jewelry ETC...I Think Citan has done an excellent job balancing the game and I have found a Very Lucrative life of Moderation in Many different sources of revenue... although someone out there collecting bluebells won't see much of a Bankroll...on the other side of the coin... items like bluebells are important for different reasons. Only thing I would clamour for is more high end drops out of Dungeon Chests. IE Minor Panaceas and Eternal Greens and maybe some Watered down versions of those for new template and newbie players alike! =) Great post!
    Breaking an Obscene Canvas on a Stretcher of Parasitism! Paranoia Writes the Checks!

  6. #26
    Senior Member Mikhaila's Avatar
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    I feel like you didn't really read what I wrote and just jumped to the comments, previous posts seemed very inline with discussion. This didn't.

    Yes. It seems like when you disagree with someone the easiest way to dismiss them is to say "you didn't read what i wrote".

    I read your essay. I'm always curious about these things. Now do i have the right to disagree with you?

    I don't need to discuss your entire post. I don't need to comment on your post. You posted an opinion, I disagreed with it, then got all dramatic for several paragraphs.

    You think skinning is the problem. I think you are using a very specific situation to ask for changes in a skill. The skill isn't broken, panthers might be.

    Saying "it isn't the profit per hour"....then why spend 6 pages with graphs to show the profit per hour? If it doesn't matter, why focus on it.
    Last edited by Mikhaila; 04-06-2018 at 11:13 AM.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Crissa's Avatar
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    If panthers aren't notably different than other skinning situations... Then yeah, maybe it's skinning.

    But the simplest is that maybe the place you can round up twenty of the same skinnable mob so easily is maybe outside what was calculated for.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Tagamogi's Avatar
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    Ok, I had another go at the opening essay, and made it all the way through... @fellentier , you start losing me on page 5, when you argue that the Kur panthers maximize the potential for profit and experience. Skimming slightly ahead, I don't see the experience argument addressed at all. It's a fairly reasonable assumption since you will be killing "lots" of stuff, but you are going to need one high-level aoe skill which will level minimally or and eventually not at all on the panthers. So, if you are trying to maximize xp gain, I wonder if there are other areas that would provide better opportunities.

    For the profit maximization, I need a money per hour figure. 1.6 million per week is all nice and well but if it takes 24/7 farming to get enough skins to sell to get that amount, it's not worthwhile. Using sudostaph's 59,385c per hour figure, it looks like it would take about 27 hours of farming to max out the vendors. I assume that time is pure panther killing and does not involve traveling back and forth to the vendors, so I think it would take at least 30 hours actual time. My general attitude there is that if you have 4 characters that are all soulmates with 10 different vendors and that are all capable of farming panthers (or you are willing to spend the additional time transfering items between your panther killer and your sellers) and you are willing to spend 30+ hours in game skinning and selling skins, you are entirely welcome to 1.6 million for your efforts...

    So, I'm not entirely convinced there is a problem or what the extent of it is, which makes reading the following sections a bit more complicated. Page 7 and 8 have some very concrete suggestions for changing skin prices which I don't feel are backed up by enough preceding data. My general question is how much money a player of level x is expected to be able to make per hour (with the weekly cap an additional potentially useful piece of information), and whether skinning significantly deviates from this value.

    If you are basing your revised leather price suggestions on blacksmithing and tailoring, then I feel that blacksmithing is problematic since it mostly doesn't allow you to create armor. Tailoring seems like it could work. In another thread, we had recently calculated the non-gem cost of a pair of great cloth pants as 832c, using cotton with a market price of 40c. In comparison, the recipe for great leather leggings takes 3 great leather rolls, 1 quality roll and 2 leather strips. Using sell-to-vendor prices for leather and buy-from-vendor prices for tannin, under the old system that's 3*195 + 102 + 12*2 = 711c. Under your proposed prices, that's 3*180 + 115 + 7*2 = 669c, lowering the cost even further. I think that's probably ok - comparing player market prices to vendor prices is rather problematic. Right now, there is not really much of a player market for skins - if the value of skins or leather rolls changed, the player market for skins might rise high enough that the cost of making leather armor would be more equivalent to cloth armor. If not, having leatherworking recipes require more skins would be another option.

    ( The conversion tables in the essay don't quite line up - crude skin takes decent tannin and quality skin takes quality tannin. That makes things a bit hard to read especially since what is given is the tannin value and not the tannin cost of buying it from a vendor which is 1.5 times its value. Overall, I don't think the value changes look unreasonable, though, I'm just not quite convinced if they are needed or not.)

    (Also it would be really helpful if the essay allowed copying so I could quote.)

    Increasing the loot value of higher level mobs is an interesting idea. I don't think it is unreasonable as such, but I believe the game is intentionally forcing specialization by making the higher skill levels progressively harder to train. So, if you have a system where the higher level mobs are more valuable than lower levels per time spent to discourage low-level farming, you would need a corresponding increase in skill training costs to make up for the increased money obtained at higher levels by the average, non-farming player. I think.

    The proposed AOE change makes sense but I enjoy the existing aoe. There aren't that many places in the game that allow crazy aoe and I get quite a kick out of collecting a bunch of zombies in Kur Tower and aoe'ing them down. And a good laugh when I miscalculate again and the zombies kill me before I kill them, which is pretty frequently. So, game balance-wise, your change is better, but argh, the current system is fun.

    For the rest of the essay, my feelings are just that I'm not all that interested in your suggestions. I realize that a lot of time and effort went into them, I just personally don't find them appealing. Other opinions may vary, of course, and I hope I don't come across as too harsh in expressing mine:

    Head-hunting sounds more grindy than fun to me. It's possible it could be fun, I'm just not getting it.

    I also don't get the idea of experience strikes. Experience is generally not something I greatly care about. I enjoy leveling, so getting xp bonuses that shorten the time I spend leveling seems like a backwards fun proposal to me in general.

    Pacifist town, likewise not getting it. It sounds like mostly it would encourage me to afk in game until I meet the time requirements, or to create an alt in order to suck up the town's benefits.

    As someone who likes crafting, I feel that crafting in PG is in a very happy spot already. There are silly crafts and money-making crafts and enjoyable things to do at low crafting levels, so I'm a bit confused on why it needs improvement. Ah, ok to allow for progression at max-level... Again, the proposal sounds grindy to me. I craft because I like making different things. Crafting something repeatedly and then destroying it seems pointless to me. Also, your proposed effects aren't bad but seem like they should be another craft, rather than something that is obtained from all crafts just because those crafts happen to be at max level.

  9. #29
    Member Arundel's Avatar
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    I read some of the information. There are methods of making money that are far higher than panthers and require minimal effort but I won't name them all for obvious reasons. Just trying to give the community hope that not everything is figured out yet by everyone. When I have more time and work stuff isn't driving me crazy I will read through it all as I'm always into money making schemes in games. I prefer lazy methods though or "passive income" as I don't like to spend time grinding. I prefer actually playing with friends or leveling skills.
    Last edited by Arundel; 04-06-2018 at 03:49 PM.

  10. #30
    Member Quanzhigao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arundel View Post
    There are methods of making money that are far higher than panthers and require minimal effort but I won't name them all for obvious reasons.
    Nice try, guy that doesn't want panthers nerfed so he can milk them for money.
    Last edited by Quanzhigao; 04-06-2018 at 06:58 PM.



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