Welcome to Project: Gorgon!


Project: Gorgon is a 3D fantasy MMORPG (massively-multiplayer online role-playing game) that features an immersive experience that allows the player to forge their own path through exploration and discovery. We won't be guiding you through a world on rails, and as a result there are many hidden secrets awaiting discovery. Project: Gorgon also features an ambitious skill based leveling system that bucks the current trend of pre-determined classes, thus allowing the player to combine skills in order to create a truly unique playing experience.

The Project: Gorgon development team is led by industry veteran Eric Heimburg. Eric has over a decade of experience working as a Senior and Lead Engineer, Developer, Designer and Producer on successful games such as Asheronís Call 1 and 2, Star Trek Online and other successful Massively Multiplayer Online Games.



User Tag List

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 30
  1. #11
    Member IndigoBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    92
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Points
    91 (260 Banked)
    Actually, I have a couple of other newbie questions, and I hate to start a new thread.

    1. What are the alters sprinkled all over Serbule for? There are two in Town, and 2-3? out in the wild. What is their function?

    2. Very confused about equipping a sword/bow/staff in one hand, and a bottle/ball/shield in the other. Sometimes I can do this, and sometimes I can't, but I can't "tell" the game what I want to go in one hand, or the other. Could really use some help here...

    3. Curses - I've been careful. Not cursed at the moment. Are curses curable?

    4. Loadouts - I'll be able to use this feature pretty soon (this week?). My question is: can this be used to switch out weapon/gear DURING combat?

  2. #12
    Senior Member ShieldBreaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    838
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Points
    154 (2,506 Banked)
    1) Altar are little puzzles/riddles that if you work out what to give them it will give you lore xp and a prize

    2) Equipment is designated to work in the main or the off hand, all swords are currently main hand, all bows are currently off hand. It will tell you in the weapons tooltip what hand it is for.

    3) Curses are curable.
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    4) You can never switch gear while in combat, you can not switch skills while in combat. Loadouts don't change that, they don't allow you to switch during combat.

  3. #13
    Member IndigoBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    92
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Points
    91 (260 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by ShieldBreaker View Post
    1) Altar are little puzzles/riddles that if you work out what to give them it will give you lore xp and a prize

    2) Equipment is designated to work in the main or the off hand, all swords are currently main hand, all bows are currently off hand. It will tell you in the weapons tooltip what hand it is for.

    3) Curses are curable.
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    4) You can never switch gear while in combat, you can not switch skills while in combat. Loadouts don't change that, they don't allow you to switch during combat.
    Thanks for the clear answers! I guess I need to review those tooltips more often.

    Edit: It's not that I am not reading the tooltips, it's that the items I have don't contain that info. Currently have 1 single item (a bottle) that states which hand it needs. Needless to say, it's nice to know that swords and bows don't use the same hand.

    What about shields and bows?
    Last edited by IndigoBlue; 04-04-2018 at 10:23 AM. Reason: Update

  4. #14
    Senior Member ShieldBreaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    838
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Points
    154 (2,506 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by IndigoBlue View Post
    ...

    What about shields and bows?
    Shields and bows are both off hand items

  5. #15
    Member IndigoBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    92
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Points
    91 (260 Banked)
    Thanks @ShieldBreaker, as usual, your super helpful. Doing a tad better in combat now that I know what 2 weapons I can combine.

  6. #16
    Junior Member BabyBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    12
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Points
    155 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by sudostahp View Post
    Most trade skills will never make you money, even filling work orders. Carpentry is an exception. If you're concerned about skills that will make you cash, focus on resource harvesting: foraging, butchering, skinning, surveying/mining, gardening, tanning etc. You'll spend far more in leatherworking, cheesemaking, tailoring, blacksmithing, and toolcrafting than you'll ever make back.
    I'm sorry maybe I missed something or am taking this out of context, but are you saying production skills and work orders are never profitable?

    If so I highly disagree, because I grew my own cotton and surveyed my own gems yesterday and made enough cloth gear to sell off NPCs to make 100k in a single day. Also once you hit ~30 industry you get very simple work orders that pay out ~10-15k that you can finish very quickly.

    Initial training costs and skill cap raises are pricey but armor crafting and work orders are where 75% of my money comes from. Something like cheesemaking may be a different story, but even toolcrafting I made ~60k just selling off Master first aid kits for a third of their actual price to Flia. I was able to produce hundreds with just basic slabs and low level tailoring mats.

  7. #17
    Member sudostahp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    64
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Points
    70 (291 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by BabyBlue View Post
    I'm sorry maybe I missed something or am taking this out of context, but are you saying production skills and work orders are never profitable?

    If so I highly disagree, because I grew my own cotton and surveyed my own gems yesterday and made enough cloth gear to sell off NPCs to make 100k in a single day. Also once you hit ~30 industry you get very simple work orders that pay out ~10-15k that you can finish very quickly.

    Initial training costs and skill cap raises are pricey but armor crafting and work orders are where 75% of my money comes from. Something like cheesemaking may be a different story, but even toolcrafting I made ~60k just selling off Master first aid kits for a third of their actual price to Flia. I was able to produce hundreds with just basic slabs and low level tailoring mats.
    I'm certainly open to being wrong, but I don't think that I am. Some work orders can be profitable, but I don't think that they're profitable enough to ever recoup the cost of training them. @Tagamogi definitely disagrees with me on this point. 10-15k for work orders sounds impressive, but if you subtract the materials cost, the actual profit that you're making is much lower.

    Let's use the Master Healing Kits as an example. If you made 60k by vendoring Master Fist Aid kits (value 200), then you made 300 of them. Since the recipe makes 2, you made a total of 150 combines. That means each combine resulted in 400 gross profit. Let's look at the following ingredients required for a combine.

    Cotton Thread x1 (Vendor Value 154)
    Coarse Cotton Yarn x1 (Vendor Value 9)
    Basic Skinning Knife x1 (Vendor Value 50)

    Did you buy the skinning knifes or make them?
    If you made the skinning knives, then your product cost (the vendor value of the raw materials) of a combine was 213, and your total net profit was 28,050. If you bought the skinning knives, then your product cost was 263, and your net profit was 19,050, so about a third. Check my math (something might be wrong), but it seems that you sold first aid kids for 1/2 to 2/3 of their cost to Flia, not 1/3. You can make about the same in an hour growing cotton, more if you do cotton and barley together. I'm a big fan of gardening. I don't know if it's technically a crafting skill, but it's very profitable.

    Here's the other challenge: You could have asked a guildmate to do any or all of the combines for you. They get xp, you get the loot. Both folks win, and you never need to pay for a single toolworking recipe. This is a problem with the current crafting system, and is why many crafting skills can never be profitable in a player-to-player sense. That's the essence of the argument against new players chasing after leatherworking, tailoring, and toolcrafting. There's some profit to be made, but you don't need crafting to fill any of the work orders. Tons of other folks will do it free just for the xp. Given that there's a limited player-to-player market available for most crafting skills, pursuing those skills will never be profitable. I hope that helps. Feel free to push back if you disagree with me.

    As for the tailoring, I'd need more details, but I'd wager that the value of the cotton grown and the gems surveyed would be more valuable sold to a player than the finished products sold to a vendor. This depends on the gems used and your valuation of cotton. I think it'd be great if you kept a log of the materials and the value of the resulting items. My experience is completely anecdotal as I haven't logged it, and I'd love to see evidence that I'm wrong.

  8. #18
    Junior Member BabyBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    12
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Points
    155 (0 Banked)
    Woah sorry when I described the toolcrafting Master First Aid kits scenario that was a total rough guesstimate of what I made. The only reason I brought it up was because I only made Master First Aid kits to eventually make level 70 snail armor, and was shocked to find a solid profit in doing so. Did not intend for it to get picked apart and analysed, sorry.

    So what you're saying is you're better off foraging/gathering mats and selling off all your found loot than using it to craft. I see where you're coming from. Just when I read "Most trade skills will never make you money, even filling work orders." This statement itself grabbed my attention because I perceived it as "no money is to be made", instead of "less money is to be made".

    I gather all my crafting materials and rarely buy them, so I usually have lots of skins/cotton/etc. stacked up.

    Many MMO's have an economy where mats or unfinished products sell for more than the finished product, because that experience those mats can provide is a precious resource for players as well. However there are two points that I don't think contradict your point of view, but must be taken account for.

    1. Gathering your own mats and selling finished goods to NPCs never really fluctuates in profit, besides bad luck with RNG at times. So I never have to depend on other players to make some quick cash and can off my goods instantly if I haven't drained NPC council reserves.
    2. Missing out on experience by selling of mats may handicap yourself in the long run in certain areas. This of course is irrelevant if you have no interest in the skill. For instance if you never want to make leather armor and could care less, by all means sell off those skins.

    But yea, like I said I'm not arguing with you or think you're wrong. Its just the message I took away from that first post was that you couldn't profit from crafting, and I didn't want new players to think they wouldn't see any councils after gathering their own materials and making items/gear. If you're not making any experience crafting then I can totally see selling off mats. However I am very happy with the income that is a side effect of training my skills through just selling to NPCs.

  9. #19
    Member sudostahp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    64
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Points
    70 (291 Banked)
    You bring up two great points, and I think that I can add a third: Valuable synergy skills (and other pre-requisites) are buried in some crafting skills. Everyone needs to be able to break down gear and enchant their own gear, which means that everyone needs a certain level of proficiency across the pre-requisite crafting skills. I think that folks are better off if they do it at later levels, but to each their own.

    You're definitely right that in many games, raw materials are worth more than finished pieces. It's a sign of an efficient market, and it's not a bad thing. The same holds true for the stock market. Stocks are valued based on the value of future returns (be it dividends, growth, etc.), and stock prices reflect what folks think that those shares are worth. This is also way insider trading isn't allowed. If you have material insider knowledge, you can better predict when a stock's price will go up or down.

    The same is true for the in-game economy. Why is cotton worth 4k/stack? Well, it's what players will pay. Why will players pay that much? It's probably about what you can expect to make via crafting it into something. This makes it very difficult for crafted goods to ever become more valuable than the raw materials. If players can make more by buying raw goods, the price of those raw goods will increase until it's balanced again. Game designers can address this through RNG, specialization, timers, rare recipe drops, etc. These design elements create inefficiencies in the market. I think cheesemaking, brewing, and mushroom farming have great mechanics. The "timer" system ensures that certain products aren't over-produced. Let's say that there was a similar timer, maybe even several days, but the crafted product was a guaranteed yellow. Crafters could more easily take commissions and produce gear for the player-to-player market. Ladriel also had a great idea recently about "crafting wisdom".

  10. #20
    Senior Member Tagamogi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    725
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Points
    717 (1,801 Banked)
    One thing a lot of work orders have going for them is money per time spent. I can pretty easily bang out 3-4 work orders in half an hour and make 15-20K. Now, I can't repeat that indefinitely since eventually I'll run out of work orders I haven't done that month. However, if all I got in the game is half an hour to an hour with possible interruptions, work orders are great. I'm specifically thinking of leatherworking here. Each tier has 7 possible work orders, not counting evasion pants because I hate cloth, and not counting winter coats because they require more materials. Starting at maybe decent, I'd eyeball each order as 5K profit - sorry, too lazy for actual math right now. It may be a touch lower initially but the great leather orders should more than make up for that. So, anyway, that's 4 tiers times 7 pieces = 28 possible work orders per month. Even if you don't do them all, pulling in over 100K is quite possible. If you play a lot, 100K per month may not be enough, but it requires fairly minimal effort.

    You can quite reasonably argue that you have to level the trade skill before you can make lots of money off it. However, that applies to combat skills and loot selling, too, and don't forget the favor leveling you have to do if you are hitting up multiple different vendors.

    I'm also wondering - for the loot selling and cotton growing, do you factor in the time it takes to run out to the vendor or to find another player to buy your cotton? For gardening, you can definitely grow a lot more than just cotton in the same time, but then you also have to invest in more fertilizer and find different players to buy your flowers or vegetables, so it gets complicated pretty fast.

    This may be more appropriate for the "Fundamentals of the Current Market" thread, but I still haven't made it through the initial document there, so posting in this thread seems easier.

    ( Gardening is technically not a crafting skill since druids get gardening xp while a druid event is happening. I bug-reported that one time, and srand responded that that is working as intended and gardening is in that weird neither crafting nor combat skill category. I think civic pride is another example. So there's your trivia for the day. )



Thread Footer

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •