It would be very much like the instanced apartments in Asheron's Call.
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It would be very much like the instanced apartments in Asheron's Call.
Sounds bloody awesome but I can imagine driving your spouse insane if you come back to them as a different animal each day of the week and could lead to strange situations like "Welcome home honey were having pork for....wait you're a fucking pig!?".
an issue for me is misplacing or mixing up completed armor sets between multiple storage chests.. I'll throw this up and see if any of it sticks...
create display manikins for each housing unit.
manikins would wear completed armor/weapon sets keeping pieces safely together as a unit until pulled for use or update...
perhaps house guests could review stats of the manikin display, giving owner ability to show off the display..
manikins might also serve as a build planner of sorts..
Yep being a player that plays many skills , iId like manikins too, or at least some way to have many separate individual storage's I could label.
Some real cool Ideas here both from dev and the in game crowd.
If as I imagine the cost of housing will be high, would it perhaps not best be done post wipe, or will all homes be added to the list of things wiped.
I'd kind of like to be able to have tasks completed over time a bit like hangouts, allowing a few new recipes etc. But it will of course depend on if are homes will have multiple npcs etc.
I do want something that can be improved , either more work or cash/items over time improving the place. Not just decor but extra land and rooms.
Like most I guess I'd like at least a simple teleport to home and a teleport to at least one place in game. I don't really want to have to go to same place every time I wish to return home.
Would like some variety too, so for example not everyone's house is entered from certain spot. Perhaps just giving folks a simple choice of 1 of 4 different entrance spots would spread folks around a little.
Would also perhaps like the option of a house that is account bound rather than for 1 character.
I love this idea. I don't know if you're thinking of player-created hang outs but I think that would be awesome. If our homes provided a hang-out template us players could easily program (similar to how to set-up our market vendors), that could be very unique to PG.Quote:
Originally Posted by alleryn
I'd be very interested in this. Write/Create a hangout, then have it give out a reserved reward to anyone who finished the story. I'm not sure how difficult it would be to do but it would add a nice signature to owning a home.
Since devs seem more interested in brainstorming how house can bring fun to the game, I'll give my own opinion about it. I think fun can come from two aspects in this game and I've got some suggestions about each of them.
A) A solo activity that rewards with the feeling of achieving progress.
When playing solo, for me the game is fun if there is something to achieve, and it means my character is making progress. So there could be a new skill for building a house, and as you level in it you can make better and better houses. However, the concept of crafting has been quite thoroughly explored, and we probably want something different. Like mini-games in the Red Wing Casino are different, but we want something different again. So I've got two suggestions:
1. Action game. I'm using the term game in a rather generic way, because I don't have any specific implementation in mind. It could be reusing the 3D world of Unity, or be a 2D mini-game. Anyway, the difference between adventuring and casino games is that you would not go your way out to kill things, and you would not play some step-by-step stuff. Instead, it'd be a real-time action game where you're trying to build your house. More level in the skill would make the build process easier (for instance, being able to carry two blocks of concrete instead of one from your stock to the basement), and higher-level houses would be harder to build and require more resources. You'd start with what you have foraged/crafted, and you'd fight some obstacles when building the house:
. Time-limited.
. Pests could ruin your wooden resource if you don't kick them out.
. Kobold thieves could steal your stuff.
. Some parts could crumble randomly, forcing you to repeat a step.
And so on. The idea is that it would be real-time, starting with what you bring to the table. Like M&M you'd get XP depending on your progress, but success would mean you have a house to your name!
2. Strategic game. This is a completely different idea: you'd receive some randomly-generated house blueprint, and you'd drop your ressource at strategic positions on the blueprint. For example, it could have conveyor belts, saws, wheelbarrows, whatever. Once ready, you'd press 'build' and if done well, everything would fall into place, or crumble apart...
(This is obviously a game that programmers would like more, guess what my job is?)
B) A social activity that rewards with the feeling of being part of a community.
For this idea to work, the game needs some tech and devs to be ready to invest some time in art and design. If it's possible, then it'd work as follow.
Rather than an instanced house, there would be a few instanced 'places'. For instance, a one-house instance, a 20-houses 'village' instance and a 50-houses 'city' instance. People (with a house) would always be in one of those, so the server would in practice be split between villagers and citizens (you would not see other people in the one-house instance, obviously).
When you enter the village, or the city, you'd see other people going to their own house, and once you reach and enter your house, you'd just see the interior, and only you in it.
So, what's the difference between that and just a few different doors in Statehelm? The idea is that you could create your own 'copy' of the village/city instance, where everyone see other people the same, but houses look different. Similarly to guilds, as you create your own copy others could join it, until all houses are taken. And as people build or acquire their house, your view of the village/city would reflect what your neighbors have decided to buy/build.
The main difference with guilds is that you wouldn't be able to choose your neighbors, and also that you could move from one copy to the other, bringing your house with you (possibly with a penalty).
For example, say the player that creates a copy is the Mayor:
. They would be responsible for the well-being of the village/city, choosing between different types of weekly maintenance to do when the copy is created. Note that neighbors can help, if the task is to hunt rats or craft cheese as tribute to keep them quiet.
. They would choose a theme, a free-text manifesto of how they envision the village/city (lots of flowers? statues? wooden only?) and a community of neighbors that want to live in this kind of place would build up. This is where availability of art is critical, since what distinguishes a copy from another must be clearly visible. There must be variety.
. Villages are not guild. To repeat: anyone could join a copy as long as there is room (guild halls can fill the niche of restricted access). Social dynamic would sort it out. Would trolling be a problem? I think it can be avoided, since everyone can just move.
The hard part for me is to figure out what kind of differences would be attractive. I gave as exemple villages decorated with flowers vs decorated with statues, or wooden houses vs stone houses. But is it this that would build a sense of community? I guess only an experienced game designer can do it successfully.
I have played just about every single MMO out there. This is my legacy:
Gemstone 3: 2 years
Ultima Online: 1 Year, if Asheron's Call wasn't found, may have been different
Asheron's Call: 17 Years
Asheron's Call 2: The water was awesome is all I can say
Dark Age of Camelot: 7 Years
Eve Online: 1 Year
Lord of the Rings Online: 1 Year
Neverwinter: 5 Years
Star Trek Online: 5 Years
Forsaken World: 2 Years
Runescape: 1 Year
Guild Wars: 1 Year
Archeage: 1 year
Project: Gorgon: 1 Month so far
+ a dozen others and a few decent ones not listed that I didn't play for very long because they just didn't have what it takes. This equals 21+ years of MMO experience and if the game hasn't shut down the accounts are still usable.
Now, please do not take my words as criticism. They may seem harsh, but that's just me speaking the truth as I see it. And also keep in mind I only have a character at level 25 and I haven't been able to reach or explore the high-end areas yet...
Well, I would have to say it's a bad choice. Do you people think littering the landscape with houses will be housing? Wrong. There are 11 zones by wiki. 7 technically feasible for housing. Think realistically, there won't be thousands playing a pure PVE game of this caliber. I think you are forgetting today's lazy society. If it's not handed to them with little effort, they won't do it. Yes, I know that it's early this and early that and not quite finished and blah blah blah, but that's not the point. The point is realistically speaking no single server will have more than a thousand playing. If we are to be brutally honest, the game isn't even playable with what is normally online now, about 230ish average daily use at any one time, without adjusting settings to practically nil and assuming they are all in one place. If we are to be more honest, half of any number you choose as a player base won't want housing period because of past MMOs. The best hope that you could wish for is a 75% player base wanting housing, if it was done right. If it was really done right every single player would want one. I for one don't want something that is considered my door to my house and see someone else using it to enter their house. Not really considered "mine" if someone else is allowed to use it. Even if you do small scale neighbor instances, it still won't feel like part of the world because of the instancing. Another problem is the zones themselves. They don't even seem like they are remotely tied to each other and I have yet to see a full map of what Alharth even looks like. This itself presents another problem of "becoming" your character in a world with no overall picture. The way the zones are created you can't really even say that they are tied to each other physically due to the drastic change of biome. This is the hardest thing for me to overcome in this game. I constantly feel like I'm trapped in a sandbox or more specifically a cage to hold and entertain me. That is the essence of instancing and zones. As another player said, 20 years ago we had worlds that felt like it took an eternity to cross and never had to load unless we went into dungeons or special places, why can't we have that now? The processing and memory capacity of those games could essentially be run on a modern cell phone. Scaling also seems to be an issue in certain areas. A prime example would be the bridge near Eltibule keep. Since it's not properly positioned, on the right side my character's chest to head area hits the boards. The bridge itself looks like they are oversized and not long enough from the get go, which in turn created the oversize. It all boils down to design and implementation.
Now that the hard truth is out of the way, of these 7 feasible zones, only 4 would be viable from what I have seen. That would be Serbule, Serbule Hills, Eltibule, and Sun Vale. Kur Mountains and Ilmari could also be used but would require different tech/options, which are already made, to make it work like the others. Now let's just say that the future player base would be about 800 constant. 75% of that is 600, more realistically 50% which would be 400. Divide that by the available zones and that makes needing about 100 housing per zone based on 4 zones or about 66 for 6 zones. This figure also doesn't include any new zones that can be created with housing in mind. Again the world isn't quite big enough for it. The only plus side I can say is that the way the zones were created should give the ability to create a neighbor terrain that can be added onto the original terrain while keeping the same biome. This terrain doesn't have to be as big as the main terrain. It just needs to be big enough to hold the number of houses and could be triggered to load in the background when the player hits a certain distance from it. The other way to reduce the needed terrain for houses would be something kind of similar to the way AC did the apartments. I still couldn't use them though because they still seemed more like cages. If I can't see the outside AND inside of what is considered my home, then why bother? But there are some who would thoroughly enjoy them which would reduce the needed housing in the zones. The biggest problem would be creating something that every single player would want to take advantage of and that would throw all of these calculations off. Then we would be back to needing 200 housing per zone based on 4 usable zones. This doesn't mean that each zone has to have a full count to compensate for the player base. You could create "privileged" housing in these zones. Housing that not every single player will be able to have and maybe only 1 or 2 settlements in each of these zones. Each settlement being maybe 5-8 houses? The only way you are going to get everyone wanting housing, can't be done in this game without massive rewrites. You could also create apartment settlements. Settlements with just one building and tons of doors on it for each player's apartment.
Now that some of the problems are addressed we need to look at mechanics and skills. Are they going to be buildable? If so, then we need to consider skills. We already have carpentry, but we will need some type of masonry or stone construction skill and the nodes to harvest them. Will they be able to be seen under construction? If so, then animations need to be created and time frames on construction completion. Tons of options for hangouts and favors. From helping to make your house better, like gear mannequins, storage, potions cabinets, etc. to helping you on your adventure with food, gear, money, etc. Are we going to have templates of just a few styles or will there be multiple pieces which will allow you to make your "own" style of housing. Giving a choice over styles vs creation, creation will always win. In another words, a player could choose from various floor plans, type of building material (wood, stone, combo), type of roof, etc. You would just need a few various options that in the end would equal numerous possible ways to build.
The biggest problem with all of this is, is that previous MMOs have given us very little when it comes to housing and most housing systems destroy the original social hubs of the game. This is where the problem of massive rewrites comes into play with almost every single MMO I have played. They don't think of it from the beginning but as an afterthought. To properly create housing would entail all of the social hubs to be rebuilt. Almost all cities are created without the player base in mind. Why not create cities that the players actually make, run, and live in. And no I am not talking like it has already been done in a few before. In this situation, buildings could already be constructed and players just need to make payments in order to purchase, own, and keep and in this game the proper Industry. Players would essentially become the NPCs. Either logged in or logged out. Logged in they can watch transactions and people coming and going. If that character leaves to go adventuring, then the shop "closes" and a sign displayed saying will return in "whenever". Logged out, they can adventure with another character while still having their store running. This would also create more area specifically in Serbule because you wouldn't need the massive area for player stalls. This would also help with needing only ONE character because technically that is all that is needed in this game. With the individual character having no limitation and being able to be whatever whenever doesn't create the desire to make another character. Even creating another character with different everything doesn't feel like a different character because no limitations are imposed. The only technical difference is appearance and name. What do you do with the old NPCs? Simple, incorporate them into the housing favor and hangouts or possibly an assistant in the store for favors and hangouts through them which would give the store upgrades or as "placeholders" until a player occupies it? Example: A player with a "high end" store could have multiple stalls for other "low end" players to use via a rent platform or freely, which would reduce overall needed buildings. Kind of like how Marna's shop is set up but based on limitations set by the owner as far as what can be sold and bought. In other words, gear, food, resources, etc. Similar to how the merchants work now, you can't just buy and sell whatever you want in all the shops. When you enter the shop you can expect all the merchants to be selling the same type of items, not necessarily the same items. These shops are also technically a player's home, just needs a 2nd floor for "home". Pricing could become a problem if not standardized within each of the shops or set by the owner?
I guess I'll stop there for now because, in the end, the possibilities are limitless. It all depends on what the team is willing to tackle, overcome, and achieve to set a new standard by which all future MMOs will be based. Will Project: Gorgon be the one? Only time will tell...
If you really think about it, all MMOs are based on what only maybe 2 or 3 have achieved. The rest just try to mimic them the best they can and add new functions, but usually fail in the end. Show me one single MMO that has survived as long as Asheron's Call did. You can't because it hasn't been reproduced in 20 years...
This is a really really great idea. Players will be much more invested with this.
Some very interesting ideas here, but all are probably way too complex and time-consuming to implement. There will never be individual houses scattered over the zones because the zones are a bit too small for that kind of thing and because of lag the housing would induce in popular areas. Instanced housing for those that want to bother with it would be OK, accessed by a common entrance such as one of the houses in Serbule that have no current function. There's one with a counter that has a few plants on it and an empty room adjoining it. That one would be ideal to use to enter the housing instance. Something similar could be placed in Eltibule Keep and maybe also next to the landing jetty in Sun Vale.
It seems an ideal compromise. Minimal impact on the zones, people get somewhere to play house if they are that way inclined and everyone hopefully gets to use it as extra storage. To be honest, the ONLY thing I want player housing for is more storage, hopefully shared between alts.
The most awesome housing I ever saw in an MMO was Wildstar. It is no longer online but I am sure there can be videos found on youtube of player houses there.
I never use my house on lotro. I was at my house in Wildstar a lot. Logging out there gave more rested XP so that was a plus, but also I liked decorating and playing there. I also often visited other players houses, because they had build parcours to jump around or mazes or just pretty stuff to look at.
I really liked the little crafting nodes you could have and the garden.
So please please devs check out how Wildstar did housing, because they did soo many things right.