The newest developer blog is here:
https://forum.projectgorgon.com/entr...g-April-2-2019
And this is the thread for discussion! Thanks!
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The newest developer blog is here:
https://forum.projectgorgon.com/entr...g-April-2-2019
And this is the thread for discussion! Thanks!
War cache sounds very interesting and I am looking forward to trying them out.
Suspect that they will be a 'wanted feature' for all levels.
Kudos for coming up with the concept and developing it.
Many thanks to all for your commitment and hard work. These experiments really differentiates PG from all the other games.
In the future could you make it possible for us to know which treasure effect has been added by an augment?
Currently you need to keep a list.
It would be super awesome to put say an asterisk or maybe a purple one next to the text on the power in question.
Happy to see more content!
The Lycan changes have been a long time coming.
It will be intresting to see how the players/skill usage landscape changes with these changes.
Most looking forward for the % chance for a given mod being rolled, it will make things way easier.
Very excited about the new transmutation aspects - I like that less rare items are more easily boosted - this helps a lot with spending a long time getting a set how you want it just to out level it. Interested to see how percent rarity will change the add useless augment game for increasing favorable re-roll odds.
Incredibly excited about these new 'war caches' - cannot wait to try them out. I'm very curious what it will be like when you randomly end up with another player. People on the whole tend to be very helpful - i.e. waiting and guiding to loot pigs - and I think it could be a great social moment when you randomly end up with just one other player in a mini puzzle dungeon.
On twitter there was mention of new skills as well as new mechanics for the next update, but nothing mentioned about new skills - curious if we'll see any net new skills coming soon though I'm sure I'll be sated with just what was listed.
Lastly, thanks for the hammer boost :3 I've already enjoyed hammer as is so looking forward to seeing what it turns into ^_^
So it's going to show the percentage, great! But has the mechanics in which you roll treasure been updated or am I going to see 12.5 % but have the same 2 treasure recycle themselves? @Citan
Well I was waiting patiently to see what was going to change with Lycan because after the last nerf I can not even run in Gazluk nor Gazluk dungeons without dying over and over again. So my days are done with Lycan. I made a whole new character after the last nerfs because well Lycan was not playable for me anymore, and very frustrating, instead of a wolf you made a baby puppy. I did not complain about the last nerfs well because yes it needed to be done, I will be the first to admit Lycan was too strong. But now another nerf? If you keep nerfing and making it useless you mine as well take it out of the game. Go ahead haters... hate I don't give a crap. I guess my lycan-puppy can become my mule now and just hold items. Hell I may not even log back into the game after this. It was fun while it lasted.
I hope you look into lowering the cost of crude and decent phlog per reroll. Consider the opportunity cost for someone in the mid 50s his first time through with 210 decent phlog. With this 210 decent phlog, you can go sell it for 10k and buy a couple of abilities, or reroll six times. I don't remember how much money these people make, but 10-15k/hr isn't out of the question, is it? It wasn't until 60+ that I could make 15-25k/hr, but maybe I was just slow at making money. So you're asking for someone to spend an hour of their time's worth of money to MAYBE get one or two better mods on non-permanent gear. I really don't think that works in favor of transmutation/modding, which basically becomes necessary 50+ (where you have that steep difficulty increase). The tools to scale to the current content are there, they're just too expensive.
You can go to a transmutation table and find the mod that you aren't allowed to reroll. As in, item shows six mods, but the transmutation table will only allow you to reroll 5. The augmented mod is the 6th... if I'm understanding you correctly.
The new dungeon stuff sounds interesting. From what I take it sounds like it'll be kind of puzzle orientated which could be fun. Opportunities to gear around level 50 were pretty difficult too so I look forward to the addition.
The transmutation changes are very welcome too. Giving the player more information about these sorts of things is always excellent. It lets us plan ahead better and reduces a lot of the frustration involved, ESPECIALLY when dealing with randomness.
As for the Hammer and Lycan changes, they sound pretty good for now, but I'll have to see what the changes end up like.
Pound to slag is ok, although a little lackluster compared to other epic attack nukes so a bit of a buff wouldn't be bad on it. Latent charge getting a buff is definitely good though, it's probably always been Hammer's worst attack overall. I'm still wondering if Way of the Hammer is going to get any changes since the last patch's changes to the damage formula hurt it really badly.
I'm glad you're looking at Lycan from a fair point of view. There have been a lot of people claiming that Lycan is the strongest damage dealer in the game and super OP, so I was expecting Lycan to just get decimated by the nerf bat. In reality, Lycan isn't very strong, it's just that Skulk was way too good and outside of the huge damage Skulk combos, Lycan's damage is kinda lacking. The damage formula changes have evened it out a bit, but I would still like to see Skulk weakened a bit more while improving the rest of Lycan's damage a bit.
Oh wow, the mini dungeons sound very cool! I would love to see things like that in higher levels too in the endgame - it reminds me of maps from Path of Exile (Or Rifts from Diablo 3) and I'm extremely into that kind of gameplay loop. Can't wait to try them out!
Oooh, War Cache! Just the idea of it makes me want it for higher levels as well, but level 50 is a perfect place to start. While I do enjoy grouping much more than soloing there are times when a solo challenge is very appealing. The tickets to trade in should be very helpful at level 50. Not sure if those would continue to be at higher levels though. I have a feeling that even when all levels are in game, level 70 will be the base crafted set of gear for leveling up to 90 or 100. So getting a few pieces in a mini dg probably wouldn't be a thing, but I could be wrong. I guess higher level mini dgs would need something like specific drops from difficult bosses in them for replay value. I would love to see them drop very specific gear, with a rather low drop chance, that levels as you level, especially weapons. Although, we do get people wanting to join GK runs that are completely unprepared for them as far as gear goes, especially if they haven't run Lab. As I think more about this stuff, I realize that I would have loved mini dgs as newbie! They would help get you ready for the lower level group dungeons.
I can't wait for the Lycan changes (heavily-revised abilities and treasure). I have not enjoyed Lycan for a couple years now and am so excited to make a new build that isn't ruined because I didn't finish a rotation. Skulk and other bite modifiers + bite was indeed op but I didn't enjoy it at all. I hope @SassySusie, a true lycan at heart, will be happily surprised by the changes. I also hope it will remain a very strong class.
@Citan I see that you are working on more outdoor areas which leads me to a question. Should we expect level 80+ unlocks before or after release? I find it fun to prepare for unlocks but not if all the prep (mostly council) is just going to be wiped :P
New outdoor areas sound amazing.
For those of you who played Asherons Call...would be sweet to have an outdoor area like Viridian Rise.
I think this is an awesome step to freshen it up, The transmutation changes I welcome and I am super excited for the hammer change as I love the hammer skill. reat work guys and I look forard to my special title. Thank you for the excellent hard work
When you buy one of these packages, you receive a code via email. Then you log in to the game and visit a golem in Serbule, the "Account Package Manager". He's in the empty house next to Joe's shop.
I only received an email saying my PayPal was confirmed, never got an email with a code
Yeah , i see that is opens notepad with the code, Thanks :)
Lycan is OP on damage? That's news to me. Maybe I'm playing it wrong. I really loved the idea of playing a werewolf in this game but it has been rather underwhelming to me, at least pre-50. It takes me longer to kill stuff compared to my other pre-50 characters and I seem to be fairly squishy as well. It actually makes me dread leveling up my werewolf lately, which makes me very sad. I wish I felt OP!
Scraps,
It might be your build, mods and such. Check with other ycan and what build they use :)
okay @Citan I know you like numbers and want to know certain situations etc.... so here goes
I run an archer/BC as my alt I can go to kur and round up more than 8 wolves freeze them do heavy multi shot and one battle chem hit and they are all dead. On my lycan if I round up more than 3 then I am dead now take note please.. my lycan has had max enchanted fully modded gear for years now, my archer she is NOT in max enchanted (some of her gear is not even yellow gear) nor fully modded gear and can kill better than the lycan can.
So now here is some numbers for you:
Lycan: Sang Fangs 893, pack attack 930, Pouncing rend 868, Smell Fear 985, and Bite 988 now you think that is strong for a level 70 max enchanted fully modded character? Oh wait here is my archer numbers Now remember she is not fully modded not even fully geared!
Archer: Mangling Shot 1522, Heavy Shot, 2002, Aimed shot 1054, Heavy Multishot 1306, and I change on the other arrow that I use depending on the situation...
But anyhow please take a good look at those numbers and tell me Lycan is still too OP.
SassySusie, Relax these small changes are why were are testing the game. Lycan to the devs is OP they are fixing it. It is gets nerfed too much they fix it again. Its why we paid to test the game and play in alpha and beta...Have you looked at damage types and mitigations of the wolves. I have seen a lycan tank a GK boss with no issues and he had lower health and armor than me, we had a dedicated healer but he did damn good job. Changes suck at times and try not to take it to heart changes will be made and often upset a few players. Try to stay positive
I stand by the idea that Lycan isn't OP, it's Skulk (One of their abilities) that is OP. It did get heavily nerfed in the last patch along with a bunch of other stuff due to the damage formula changes, but it's still quite strong.
Just to give a rough idea, a modded Skulk before the last patch could add 359 to 445 damage to an attack, which can double to triple the damage of most attacks (Bite for example, does 280). Then another Skulk mod multiplied crushing damage by over 200% which multiplied the original bonus as well as any other bonuses you had. Skulk was essentially a button that could multiply the damage of your next attack by 3 to 6 times depending on what it was and your set up into it.
The easiest combo is Skulk into Bite since Bite is a Lycan attack, but essentially any crushing attack can work. Bite can be an AoE and is available to all Lycan builds, so most Lycan players typically use Bite as their follow up. Previously, combos with Lycan/Unarmed could potentially hit for over 25k to a single target. The last patch heavily weakened the crushing damage multiplier so it's more like 2-3x damage depending on the move now, but it's still quite clearly the most dominant aspect of Lycan.
Skulk's existence over the years has always baffled me. Things like the lack of a cast time even when Spider's weaker equivalent had a 5 second cast time (now 3 or 1) and the 120%+ bonus to crushing when most damage type buffs are around 10%-30% has always greatly confused me. It's always stuck out like a sore thumb to me for years, and it has gone through many "Nerf waves" unscathed until recently. I assume that the original idea of the ability might have been to use it outside of combat and sneak up on enemies as a sort of "Stealth kill", but the lack of a cast time means it can just be used mid-combat as part of a combo.
I would like to state once again though that I believe Lycan is actually on the weaker side without Skulk, so I believe the "Removal" of it would be too large of a nerf. Currently however I think Skulk is too domineering in that every Lycan build should have it not just because of it's strength but also since the other parts of Lycan are a bit lackluster overall. Although Citan is clearly implying Lycan players should expect some pain from nerfs, I think he's also saying he's improving other aspects of Lycan so they can be useful without the ridiculous "Multiply your damage by 300-600%" button. It might not be as fun as decimating enemies with a 9k damage AoE nuke, but hopefully it gives Lycans more flexibility on how to build and improves the skillset overall.
That's a nice work around... thank you! But I would still like to have a notation system on the item with a simple mark to note which power has been added.
Are you saying you can't solo in Gazluk Keep anymore? If that is the case then I think that is a good change for the game. I honestly dont want to see anyone in GK soloing mobs intended to be killed by a group of 6 people. And yes that means that I would like to see unarmed and psychology leveled off with a bunch of other skills in terms of survivability. That's in part why I made the GK thread exposing a lot of the cheese you see in the zone that maybe should be changed to make combat more challenging/interesting.
As an outsider looking in to the werewolf window I can say that lycan was pretty OP for a long time. I have hopes that the skill will be re-tuned to make it a much more enjoyable experience overall. At the same time I think the writing was on the wall with this one as wolves got to enjoy a great deal of power for a very long time.
I have a feeling that it might get changed for the worse but in time will eventually feel whole again (so in essence lycan will be the brother of necromancy). Unfortunately that is the nature of a game in development that things can go from a very high point to a crashing low. I can somewhat relate as I quit battlechemistry when the aoe nerf hit last year and I think a lot of people did the same. A number of people moved to wolf to use that aoe combo which somehow survived the other nerf.
Nobody wants their build to get ruined but I eventually came to realize that the aoe nerf was good for the game. The new teleport ability sounds really cool so maybe don't knock the changes until you try them? There may be some buffs to healing/defense that counterbalance the loss of spike damage. It's also quite possible wolf might be completely fine if you shuffle your mods/powerset a bit.
Looking at wolf and hammer you can see they both lost the ability to end a fight at a moment's notice. That's a balance issue when you compare them to all the other skills in the game. It's not a good idea to have some setups end a fight in 4-5 attacks when an equal quality gear/damge setup need 8-10 attacks using different professions.
Archery should be the highest dps skill in the game. It costs you quite a bit to keep churning out arrows made with spruce. This skill also costs you inventory slots and that means loss of money because you can't carry as much as the next guy. If nothing else it means you probably cant do the work orders for spruce over 4x characters every month. That is a lot of money down the drain!
Looking at those numbers it really shouldn't shock anyone that wolf got nerfed. I feel bad for anyone using an 'honest' wolf build but it was pretty clear something was wrong with lycan overall.
Most level 70 characters in max enchanted gear would have difficulty doing as much damage as the pre-nerf lycan with their entire bar of moves going off at once! That's a pretty good indication that wolf might have just been a wee bit strong.
My experience is that almost every time there has been a 'nerf', the game play has benefitted in the medium term (excluding Animal Handling e.g. no more tanking manticores with pets).
Personally, i have felt the same as Sassie does at this time, but have to say, it passes once you adapt to it.
e.g.
'Compulsory' use of food and snacks. Every build unusable due to running out of power. Learnt cooking, cheese making and flower appreciation
Hammer /Mentalism Electricity build. Damage types reclassified. Damage output very low. Went to Archery
Archery critical damage reduction. Went from 13k+ crits to <4k. (2 big nerfs). Went Fire /BC
Fire /BC AOE nerfs. Went from AOE on c. 18 panthers at once to 4. Went Spider /Druid Poison build
Waiting for Poison nerf? Watch this space
All the above 'hurt' at the time, but they have improved the game.
Werewolf damage:
Whilst not contradicting Yaffy's points, I am one of those people saying Werewolf damage is OP as per current builds.
When Rum first started the random mob events, we conducted some informal testing on > 1 million+ health mobs.
I was in max crafted with augmented gold gear (58+ mods) using archery /druid or fire /BC.
The werewolves were in lesser gear (mainly GK dropped gear which had been modded & auged) c. 50 to 54 mods(?)
The werewolves regularly did twice my total damage each whether I used archery or fire.
So yes, werewolves do need a review, but hopefully it won't destroy them as a play style (as werewolf is a 'life-style' choice and not just a skill-combo).
@SassySusie wow your Lucan numbers are pretty much on par with hammer abilities now! Same thing too can't kill things as easily as all my other builds.
What I would really like to see for Lycan is a second aoe. Please! Single target builds are really only good for one thing, and that is group dgs. Single target builds can pick off a mob very quickly, making the rest of the fight easier with fewer mobs, and are great for bosses. Lycan however has to be very effective in solo play as well since it is a life choice and you are stuck as Lycan 3 days each month, which means always dealing with 3 (and often more) mobs. That is the reason why everyone built up bite to crazy levels of damage.
If you're going to nerf a skill line please allow us to drop it should we wish to. I probably won't even play at all for the duration of the full moon.
@katoosh I think it's fair to be given choice to drop one of these "curses". Dangerous weapons were removed because devs screwed up apparently, so we made some choices and only right to be given opportunity to get rid of something. You picked a skill and it was great now it's nerfed to shit and you're supposed to keep it? It's only beta stage and the game is trial and error on both sides.
If you're hitting for five digits, you will eventually get nerfed in at least two consecutive patches. That's basically become a law around here.
War caches seem like a cool idea, you might want to make them level 55/60 though instead of 50.
Dailies kind of take care of 45-50 gearing, there is no labs daily however, thus a gap at 51-69.
Can't comment on Lycan stuff as I am not a Lycan, except to say that a nerf isn't always a nerf if it makes the playstyle more fun and varied, I'd wait and see before going nuts over it. That being said, still nothing wrong with voicing concerns.
This part time puppy don't care too much.
An option to remove that awful black fog or for that matter any other players AOE effects etc would be grand especially at serb parties.
New Dungeons sound great, Can't wait.
Trans and Aug changes for the little folk can only help. they fly up the lvls barely geared so encouragement for them to mess around may well help with the trans/aug wall later.
With regard to what Lyra mentioned, A little info would be helpful,
I have always assumed that any wipe would happen pretty much at end game when everything has pretty much been settled, I assumed that was the point.
It would be good to have more clarity. Hulons storage? Casino storage? Guild storage? Guild Points/Credits? Druid points, what's going?
Also the issue of if we have chosen a skill now say druid, priest or wolf will it stop us having access to other skills Vamp and weather witching etc?
@Golliathe I did not say Gazluk Keep or GK I said Gazluk dungeons, you know there are quite a few of them around Gazluk. They are meant for level 70 SOLO runs NOT group runs. Those were the dungeons I was talking about.
War catches sounds interesting, exactly the type of content I would like to see is Gorgon.
Amd I'm very excited about Lycan changes. Damge formula changes reduced effectivnes of Skulk for quite a bit, but I will not mind reducing burst damage even more, if it opens up other playstyles. I would love to see more ways to apply Dot's in Wolf kit, or more (read - 'any') tankiness. Because, to be honest, Wolf in rather lackluster. We don't get any nice level-up bonuses like other animals, our kit lack utility (beside maybe BotP damge buff, and SF slashing debuff, but latter was nerfed when dmg formula changed), and, outisde of Skulk burst, our dmage is not that great either. Not to mention, all of Wolf unique mechancs are... not that great, except maybe form change.
Eating corpses in combat is back? Well... to be honest, I don't think it will change much. There are 3 main problems with Beat metabolism regen right now:
1)BMR running out in the middle of fight. This one is most common, and while this change will help a bit, it will not fix it completely. If I fight only one or two mobs, and there is corpse nearby, sure, I might take this few seconds to eat it. But if I'm in really thick spot(so situation when I need that regen the most), I'll probably will not have time to try and eat corpse, with how clunky UI is. If we had button for it, it would help greatly.
I can think of only one situation where this change will make difference - being forced into prolonged combat by Dot's, or mobs joining fight in small groups.
2)BMR is hard to proc in harder content/boss fights. This is most prominent in Gazluk, where we have a lot of elite mobs that can't be eaten. But even eating normal mobs can screw party out, if they spawn when we fight something dangerous. 'But one normal mobs shouldn't be a problem!" you might say, and in most cases you will be right, but what if there are more wolves in party? 2, 3, or maybe its full-wolf group (not that I ever saw one, but hey, it might happen)? And when we talk about bosses - there is most often no way to refresh it. Of course, if you are in proper group, you will probably have someone to heal and restore power to you. And this leads to last problem.
3)BMR is not worth the trouble most of the time. I was trying to make it meaningful part of my kit for long time. I was buying upgrades for it at Wolf Altar, I hunted mods that boosted regen it gives on my gear. But recently I stopped, and to be honest - I didn't noticed any real change in my survivability. This is because BMR is just that - a regen. It restores small amount of health per tick. And, right now, most mobs dela crazy amount of burst damage. BMR simply cannot keep up. But to buff it to level where it would make difference - it might easily make it Op.
Instead, I think I should be changed. For example make it work on similar tech as Shadow Feint. Instead of applying regen, eating corpse would add a buff, that will restore set amount of Health, or Power, if they fall below, let's say 50%. Buff will disappear when certain amount if restored. For example:
Eating Desert Rhino, will give me 1000 restoration pool. Let's say I have 600 HP and 300 Power. When my Hp falls below 300 it will drain certain amount from this pool to restore my health - it can be flat amount depending on skill level. It would basically work as Auto-potion, until all 'energy' tired from mob will run off. To prevent it from becoming too Op, you could add cooldown between ticks, or make them drain metabolism too.
Or, you could add some Dmage reduction to Wolf. Or lower mobs damage.
#LowerMobsDamage
Maybe its time to add some stuff to Guild shop?
And remember that only full-moon game update are successful (and bloody-pizza offering for Pagan Gods are more important here that developer coding skills)
I was asking for a clarification. It sounds like in the process of making sure wolf wasn't stupidly OP (as it has been for a very long time - or had the potential to be) wolf has been ruined for 'honest' builds.
I find that sad and I hope it gets fixed soon.
A max enchanted lvl 70 character can pull 6-8 mobs of lvl 60+ and not flinch when you have your build just right. Sure you might need to use a potion, and all the tricks you have up your sleeve but the real danger is near zero - even if your health doesn't reflect that. In short things are gk difficulty or they are a small speedbump that will only be in my way for a moment.
Losing that status really hurts. I can 100% relate on a lower level scale as I quit the game with the AoE nerf. I was most definitely feeling a 'fuck this game' vibe at that point in time (also due to money issues).
Wolf had an 'amp damage' combo that kinda made it unique. When you build around that suddenly there is a hole in your powerset. In essence you built around using that amp with your moves and it worked out like one of the combos from meditation (thus heavily modifying the order you use your skills).
Ultimately the problem is that nothing else worked like this so there was nothing close to this in terms of damage potential other than hammer. Both powersets lost the 1-2-3 haha you died.
Again it comes down to the fact that player 1 could do a few moves and hit for 25k while player 2 was doing a few moves and hit for 10k. One of these things had to get buffed massively or the other had to be nerfed to oblivion.
I have some friends who are really upset about the changes. But on the other hand there are some people who were really upset to learn that wolves were doing in some cases more than 2.5x their damage in the same amount of time. I mentioned this before in the GK combat thread so I will briefly say it's not good design when you can choose two power sets and one is massively better than the other. You can't have a good game when power set A is a 4 while power set B is a 10 or else nobody will bother playing the second power set (who knows better).
Wolf had to be broken so it was not abusive to the rest of the game; I hope it gets fixed and becomes a fun/balanced power set. The teleport sounds neat and I hope it's not just a gimmick like great icing on an otherwise terrible cake.
Question on the War Caches: What if we want to bring someone else along? Would a party member be able to enter the portal, or will it only be visible to the person with the treasure map? I definitely love soloing but I also like duoing with specific people at times and since it sounds like the War Caches will be the most fun thing to do at 50, it would be nice if it was shareable if we wanted to.
A possible answer, and related question, is whether the first map to find the bunker is a tradable item that can be easily identified. If so, you could hand them a copy.
I agree with SassySusie, about Lycans getting a bum rap and being nerfed a second time. The last nerf absolutely killed my lycan alt as a playable build, and now it will be nerfed again? And the worst is that we are stuck with the nerfs, as you cannot undo selecting lycan. But I always hope lycan will be made playable again.