Why I Think the Druid Emergency Events Should Change

Well, ever since I went Druid on PG, I notice a few major problems with it: You get no EXP what-so-ever if the druid event starts, I mean sure, you can get points to get special skills after the event, but even then most Druids are too low level to even matter like me, I can't even do any damage at all. At least make it to where it's only for levels 50-70 and halve the EXP instead of completely taking it away from the druids, because it interrupts EVERYONE'S play time due to that event and the rewards (other than the special currency) aren't even worth the time and effort like the loot. I love this game, but that really does take away the fun, I don't even bother staying online when a Druidic Emergency pops up since I can't do shit about it.

Basically, it's like working at a shitty job and getting paid like one penny per hour.

I used to have a druid character as my main, and later dropped it along with lycan, just for a bit of perspective.

Having played a long time with and without flight form in particular, I have to say that the incentive to actually be a druid is overwhelming. Not only do you get an easy in/out for deer form, you also get to travel the map a lot quicker than you could before. Couple that the druid skills themselves, which are not only powerful but versatile and fun, there really needs to be a significant reason not to be a druid.

I think the event tech is useful, but I agree that the druid restrictions aren't particularly fun nor immersive, especially for new players. By a similar token, I often found playing as a lycan (this was prior to the full moon quests), often the best solution to the problem was simply not to play for a day (or three consecutive days, as is the case now) - it's disruptive to whatever you might've been doing; you're collecting gems and then suddenly you're stuck as a grounded wolf. The concept is cool, the execution not so much.

At least if there was some constant balance to maintain as a druid, rather than sporadic events, you could contribute and participate in a more flexible way. I don't have any particular ideas, but as an example, say the wolves/deer in Kur Mountains need to be maintained in some capacity - if there's too few deer, druids would need to kill wolves, and vice versa. As a constant buff/penalty, you'd have your experience gain increased or decreased respectively, rather than flat out denied all together. Hell, you could take it a step further - if the balance is heavily skewed in favour of the wolves, druids would get stuck in deer form until it's resolved.

The general idea here is that it's something that happens progressively, rather than just "yup, drop what you're doing and do this now" - you have no other option. Being forced to do something in any capacity is never fun - it's what leads to player burnout, in my experience, more than anything. So many games I've given up on because I was logging in each day to do a series of daily activities that the game deemed essential for every player.

The druid events are a work in progress, as is the rest of the game, such is the way of life in a game that is still in development. We would love to hear ways on how to make the events more engaging and fun but they are intended to require your presence as a tradeoff for the benefits of the skillset. It's a permanent choice with serious consequences thus the reason for the in-game warning. We don't have any plans to change the requirement of being present at the events, but we would be more than happy to hear ideas on how to make them more fun and engaging.

At the very least, it might be worth it (in the long run) to have players actually participate in 2-3 events before becoming a druid (as a prerequisite) - are there any plans for lycan/druid having associated quests as of yet?

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Originally Posted by Oxlazr

At the very least, it might be worth it (in the long run) to have players actually participate in 2-3 events before becoming a druid (as a prerequisite) - are there any plans for lycan/druid having associated quests as of yet?

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On Lycan & druid, don't expect to see associated quests. It is my understanding that in the future, you would not be able to be both a druid and a lycan, unless you were already one in alpha. They aren't suppose to be something you can be together but for testing purposes for each system it is allowed. Unless it is decided that they are officially to go together, no likelihood of quests for them.

I like the idea of having to go on druid events before becoming a druid. Maybe load them up as quests on the player to kill things that only show up during events. It would maybe make a player think more about it before accepting, but overall it isn't going to give them a real feel for the downside of being a druid. Unless you want it to be more a probationary Druid, where they are a almost a druid and have the down sides, but can drop out of being a druid if they don't finish the quests.

"you also get to travel the map a lot quicker than you could before"

Imo that is the reason most chose to be druids. It seems kinda wrong to pick a "class" in order to bypass the limitations of the teleport/travel system (a similar thing would be making mules to bypass the storage system). I honestly found lycan to be a fairly strong choice and worth the downside but druid not so much.
Why I'm saying this-absolutely nobody I met in game uses druid as their main skillset, it's always the support one (If anyone mains druid at high level please correct me). As someone who leveled it to 50 as main skillset (druid+psychology) I can say it's the most mind numbing experience I've had in PG and I did it solely for flight
To balance it out my suggestions would be two:
-either rework the skill into being a main skillset, add some dps skills, summon treants, animals etc. Any druid should have an animal summon imo or at least power over flora and fauna (charm or summon a biting vine kind of thing).
-rework the druid events to be fun for everyone not just levels 60+ (Not that they are fun for level 60+ players but most mobs are unkillable by lower levels). What Vzi says, it's not fun being forced into a "daily", reiterating older suggestions-turn them into individual quests like "dedicate 20 flowers to the Dreva altar", "Kill 20 pests", things that would require personal presence AND some actual player involvement besides just being there and tagging a mob. Players would still have to do these if they want the blessings (and most of us force ourselves to attend druid events cause we want the benefits).

I know a lot of work went into these events, I can see srand online during the events trying to make them go smoothly etc. I realize it's hard to just erase a lot of work but honestly the response ingame is overwhelmingly negative (again, please correct me if anyone thinks I'm wrong there). Players (myself included) are doing the same thing we did with lycan, just log off or do other things that don't involve exp during the event. The higher levels who still go are going simply to accumulate blessings (or to help finish the event), some have over 1k blessings in case some other bird/animal form gets added later. Overall "fun and engaging" are not the words that come to mind when it comes to druid events.
At least if the druid events stay in the current form we could do with an alternative that wouldn't be so disruptive, we have to delay dungeon runs, stop in the middle of crafting etc in order to let the druid event end first.
Citan said druid is not like lycan, it's not a punishment etc but-to me at least- feels more like "if you want flight put up with daily disruptions", imo at least lycan is easier to deal with.

PS-kinda unrelated - what I still consider to be my main char is druid/lycan, I would like to have a clear idea about what's going to happen to Khaylara in the context of druid-lycan conflict. I don't really need to know once more that they are permanent choices, I'm okay to be both and have the monthly and daily disruptions, maybe I'll restart playing lycan at one point BUT I'd like to know if the effort I put into leveling things like cheesemaking, poetry or leatherworking is worth it or my char will get messed up at launch/earlier being 2 incompatible classes.

The events that you can't participate in or meaningfully contribute or fulfill your obligation seems annoying.

Just a quick comment on what ShieldBreaker said - as this has been mentioned in the past, but I think we're at a stage in the game where most players perceive and accept that you can do everything on one character, and anything contrary to that will not be well-received. It's a little disheartening to me, personally, but not a deal breaker; I enjoy playing alts - coming back to the same character 6 months later kinda leaves me feeling lost. A fresh start with new twists is what I'm after, personally - though, I don't expect having druid/lycan become mutually exclusive would be well received.

On to the discussion at hand, though, my primary concern is that "not earning XP" isn't really a disincentive for max-leveled players in particular, while it's a huge hindrance on everyone else. Again, if you can just log out to avoid a penalty, it's not a penalty worth having, in my opinion, and I think there's better options.

That said, the event tech isn't bad in any capacity - and I think it'll prove more useful than not, but I'm not convinced the druid events are well placed for it. I'm also of the mindset that having flight constantly available makes the world significantly smaller - the same applies to ridiculous speed boosts. When trying to gather for a dungeon, kill manticores or what-not, I usually don't bother going if I have to make a trip against a bunch of druids that'll get there well before me; my travel speed is too much of a liability.

I understand that it's alpha, though, and many of the speed buffs are useful. As soon as mounts hit the table, though, I'd really like to see anything other than a short sprint effectively removed, personally.

As for the events themselves, I don't think there is a way you can ever make them more compelling for druids. They'll always be perceived as an annoyance. You can add sweeteners, like the tokens, but this only reinforces it as a compulsory element of play, and will no doubt push more players into becoming druids in the long run.

It's a bit of a shame that conflicting choices likely won't be well received, because being a druid at the cost of not being something else is a much fairer trade-off. At this stage, I expect that the majority of players will be druids on their first characters.

What upset me last time I participated at a druid event in kur I got no dreva points, wtf, anyway I don't do anymore druid events the nuisance to get wherever the event is happening, spamming to get into any group available, to me it's not worth it events finish fast now so I just sell/restock I even just keep hunting for loot. For druid event maybe a new "battle" map a land being contested by 2 opposing forces one trying to edge the other maybe make it a 4 season land have all monster spawn there only thing you don't know is which one it is,have dormant portals to it in different areas when the "land" calls for help they activate and you portal in and upon entering you are eligible to get drevas points maybe raise the points attained, increase the items and prices of inventory to spend points, seeing an ability increase like a permanent +5 to hp for a ridiculous price I might decide to work towards it. have the druids even there only this way everyone knows where event happening, you miss out instead of punishing the rest of the people maybe reward the partecipants

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Originally Posted by Khaylara

"you also get to travel the map a lot quicker than you could before"

Imo that is the reason most chose to be druids. It seems kinda wrong to pick a "class" in order to bypass the limitations of the teleport/travel system (a similar thing would be making mules to bypass the storage system).

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Wouldn't that be an indication that teleportation/run speed should be re-worked?

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Originally Posted by Eachna

Wouldn't that be an indication that teleportation/run speed should be re-worked?

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You have to remember that it is not really about being 'reworked' but rather allowing development to continue and progress the systems naturally. When mounts arrive I think it is safe to say that they will increase movement speed and make traveling less of a chore.

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Originally Posted by Eachna

Wouldn't that be an indication that teleportation/run speed should be re-worked?

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Precisely. So it wouldn't force people into using druid for that.

IMO, I had no trouble with Druid events as a low level druid UNTIL the group size got nerfed. As part of a group, even at very low level, I could take a few swings, die a few times, and collect loot the rest of group left behind, It was only after limitations on group size and loot locking was implemented that I got zero dreva a few times, but that is a different issue.

I have to say that I feel the benefits to Druid outweigh the negative of no XP for a short period of time. Travel forms save you so much time that the xp gain from time saved beats out the XP loss for 30 minutes during an event unless you just unluckily login only during events. All said I agree the group size nerf has been irritating.

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Originally Posted by Silvonis

You have to remember that it is not really about being 'reworked' but rather allowing development to continue and progress the systems naturally. When mounts arrive I think it is safe to say that they will increase movement speed and make traveling less of a chore.

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Mounts won't allow you to fly and avoid combat will they? Are we getting flying mounts or mounts that otherwise don't aggro mobs and trigger "in combat" slow-downs?

I don't play druid but my understanding as an outsider is that the "appeal" to druid flying is that druids fly over mobs and avoid their aggro which means there are no interruptions to their movement speed.

In any case, it's not reasonable to shut down discussion on an issue by saying "wait for future development" when we're not being told what direction that development will take.

I can't know how teleportation (or running) will eventually suck less than its present version. What I do know is it's "bad" for druid to be the work-around for bad transportation - players shouldn't feel so desperate for better transportation that they settle for being a druid. They should play druid because they want to be a druid (which means wanting the skill set and limitations).

If players are using druid as a work-around to overcome the bad transportation system then the devs should take from that situation that transportation needs some sort of re-working.

Mmm. Flying mobs like fairies and dragons and rocs...

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Originally Posted by Silvonis

You have to remember that it is not really about being 'reworked' but rather allowing development to continue and progress the systems naturally. When mounts arrive I think it is safe to say that they will increase movement speed and make traveling less of a chore.

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Wouldn't it just be better, this being alpha to just impart some skill that allowed people to just get fast travel? Just add a horse potion on a vendor for a couple coins.

The south serbule event is fine but both eltibule and ilmari are ridiculous and I think even requiring someone to have a 50 combat skill is way premature to expect someone to be able to participate.

It seems like we keep hearing about how it's alpha yet you either have to be inconvenienced while you test or farm druid to 50, isn't that the actual problem? You will save more time for having flight form even if you logged off on every druid event to stare at a wall.

Maybe in the end flight form just needs to be limited or put on a cooldown. In almost every game with flying it makes things so much easier, people never touch down, and it's a huge advantage. If druids get flight form it will be the easiest way to obtain a flying mount unless flying mounts are just cheaply available on a vendor.

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Originally Posted by Worm

[...] it's alpha yet you either have to be inconvenienced while you test [...]

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And there you have the essence of alpha! We call our current development stage alpha NOT to make us look good or defray valid criticism, but to try to let people who want to help test know exactly what they are getting into.

Bugs, crashes, not-yet-implemented (NYI) stuff everywhere, sure. But that's typical beta stuff. Our alpha testers have to contend with much more than that: massive rewrites of the equipment system that invalidates half or more of their armor, entrenched bugs that cause them to lose money or items, constantly falling to their death from a great height while still on the ground, repeated crashes that won't let you log in for a week ... quite an awful lot of inconvenience all around.

We are incredibly proud of and grateful to the testers who are willing to put up with all of that. You are a force to be reckoned with!


Regarding druid events: We're reading and discussing the feedback - I'm watching druid feedback quite particularly myself - and we are planning changes and additional events around that feedback. It's also very useful to know how and why people are becoming druids and how you see that fitting in to a complete game. So let's keep this thread focused on feedback we can use for better druid events - and better druids! :)

Some feedback on Druid events - this is not intended to be a moan, but rather a sense-check for people to comment (especially the Devs) if this is 'as intendned'

I have been taking part in the druid events from their launch & some I enjoyed (Elt.), some I avoided (Ilmari), but in every event - up until the 'lock' mechanism on monsters was introduced - they were social outings, people helped one another, some people even used healing specs. to give lower level players a chance of surviving.
If not always enjoyable, they were sociable & inclusive.

Since the 'lock' mechanism this aspect has disappeared - and it may be changing the 'inclusive' culture of the player base to one that is less co-operative.
On the last 6 druid events I have attended I saw nobody advertising in chat to group and saw very few people asking to join a group. I also have seen people running away /not engaging with monsters that were 'locked' by someone else.

Prior to the 'lock' mechanism this behaviour was never noticed.
Also, it has become noticeable that high level players are often ignoring the event, or zoning into an event, killing 1 monster then zoning back out (& collecting druid points at the end)

Today's event in Ilmari summed up for me what the culture may evolve into:
Despite repeated requests to join a group (there was at least 10 people in zone), no offers were received (& I deliberately did not form a group myself) so I soloed the monsters and played on my own - as did at least one other person. I suspect the 2 of us cleared most of the mobs.
In summary, it was an uninteresting c. 30 minutes of play time

Of course, people don't need to group or co-operate, but the rewards for anyone who can't solo the monsters were probably limited to the Dreva points plus what are the druid events designed to be /achieve?
Please feel free to (politely & respectfully) comment

I was worried about the recent Ilmari event also. I went and saw a few people standing in town. Looked for a group to follow around and serenade with my bard skills but I never saw one to do that for. Wasn't even going to group just get some bard exp. No offers of group in chat. Not a druid, so not going to bother trying to take down an overseer. It really seem different then it use to, then again maybe all the druid are too drunk to try and do a druid event :). Not sure how to fix, just thought I would concur with poulter.

The events either feel like you should be able to solo the mobs or not bother to participate.

I make a horrible druid and in all honesty I only pursued this skill so that I could learn to fly...

One way to make druid less likely to be misused would be to make a points system available. For Example a Druid who has newly accepted the druid life style might have a base score of 100. If the druid is online while there is an event and participates they should gain druid points allowing them to use their abilities and perhaps obtain new ones (similar to what is in game now), however a druid who is a failure to the oath would lose points... as the point started to get lower and lower there powers might go funky. An example might be instead of being able to turn into a bird or deer at will a druid who has lost some points might accidentally turn into a mouse for a random period of time, or maybe even explode or something. Furthermore since druidism is a forever kind of skill maybe the player would become weaker overall as they continuously failed to answer to druid call.

Currently there is no draw back to ignoring the druid call and so (as a failing druid) I have no reason to drop what I am doing to actually go to this event. Good druids should be blessed, while bad ones should be cursed.
Thanks,
-LaRaj

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Originally Posted by LaRaj

might accidentally turn into a mouse for a random period of time, or maybe even explode or something.

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That's a great idea!