Suggestions regarding loot lock and griefing.

tl;dr: add some / commands to the chat box to give players options to not lock mobs to themselves; add an automated system to detect groups/individuals who lock mobs without doing significant damage; extend the functionality to players who kill non-elite mobs without opening the corpse.

--Context--

The March 25, 2017 update changed the looting rules for bosses/elites. Prior to this update, anyone could loot a corpse of a boss/elite. After the update, the first group/individual to attack locks the mob and only members of that group can loot it.

The looting rules for "normal" (non-elite) corpses changed as well, so that any player could access a corpse once the original looter closed the corpse.

The March 29 hotfix also changed the behavior of non-elite corpses, so that if they are unopened for 90 seconds anyone may loot/bury/etc.

Some reasons for the changes to boss/elite looting were discussed earlier. Summarizing the posts below, the old loot rules incentivized large groups, which took out much of the game's challenge, made feedback for balancing purposes less useful due to content being too easy, and caused too much proliferation of loot (full posts below wrapped in spoiler tages to save space):

Spoiler:

https://forum.projectgorgon.com/show...p?219-The-Zerg

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Originally Posted by Citan

Some low-level dungeons, I honestly don't care if you bum-rush them with a million people. If a high-level player wants to organize a bunch of newbies to kill Gajus? I can't really bring myself to give a crap. It's not important in the scheme of things. But if you're doing high-level content in groups of eight or ten, that's a bigger problem, one that we're aware of and that's on our to-do list to fix.

My current plan is to basically use EQ2's system: hunting groups have a max of 6 people, monsters become "loot-locked" (and XP-locked) to the first person or group that attacks them, and a little icon shows that the monster is locked. There are simple level-range restrictions on the group, as well, to keep a level 100 from carrying a group of 50s. This system works well for keeping the game's challenge level up. But it has down sides, mainly that you HAVE to group up in order to share loot and XP from a monster -- casual "nearby grouping" stops working. It also opens up some dumb abuse situations, like "high level guy runs to boss and keeps him perma-locked for hours just so that you that can never kill him", but in practice that's pretty easy to fix. We first disincentivize the abusive situation as best we can (e.g. after the third repeated boss kill, you get literally nothing from it), then if people continue to be dicks just for fun, we ban them.

But as I said in the Big Dev-Info Roundup post, these plans will come later this year. The main hold up is that I need the GUI revamp to be done first. I don't currently even have a way to show a little "locked" icon overtop monsters. I could hack something in, but I'd just have to re-code it again in the new GUI. So that's wasted work, which I try to avoid.

In the mean time, please try to exercise a little self-restraint. Yes, you can abuse the limitations of the alpha and run a dozen people through a dungeon. But you should understand what you're doing: you're twinking yourselves. There are literally no dungeons in the game right now where a group of more than 6 should be needed -- and most dungeons are balanced for a group of 3 or 4 -- so if you have more than six, you're playing on an "easy mode" that is only going to be available until I can change it.

Why should you care? Because once you twink yourselves, your feedback becomes worthless. You don't really know how hard or easy things are, so you stop being able to help me balance content. Plus, the combat metrics generated by oversized groups are worthless, so I can't balance it that way either. I know that there are level ranges where it's hard to level, and dungeons that need work, and skills that need improvement at certain level ranges... but I don't really know where they are exactly, and I need your help -- your untwinked help -- to find and fix them.

The game isn't finished yet, but stuff like this won't be a problem forever. In the mean time, I'd like people to use their sense of restraint. It's not hard! Try it. :)

Edit: here's the big dev info roundup. It's from August, so it's a bit outdated in a few places, but it may fill in some gaps for new players: http://projectgorgon.com/blog/entry/...-info-round-up

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Originally Posted by Citan

Well, no system is perfect, but I actually found the opposite. As a templar in EQ2 I routinely helped out others, just for the sake of being nice, and because of the locking system, it was understood as a nice gesture instead of an attempt to steal a kill.

In Gorgon right now, you can "help" somebody, but if you do more damage than them against a solo creature, you stop being a helper and start becoming a kill-stealer. And since XP is split right now, many players will resent your "help" because you're inevitably slowing down their leveling.

I guess the bottom line is that the current system is obviously not going to cut it in the long term because the loot system heavily rewards mega-groups. Mega-groups are actually really boring, even if the rewards are good. It's not healthy for the long-term of the game. The best system I've seen is EQ2s. If you have other systems to propose, that's cool and I'm all ears! But we can't stay with the exact system we have now forever.

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https://forum.projectgorgon.com/show...-March-10-2017

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Originally Posted by Citan

We're still gathering feedback on the new dungeon, but one change is clearly needed soon: we need to lock down group sizes and looting rights. Right now, we're incentivizing everyone to group up into clumps of as many players as possible. That doesn't just sap the challenge from the dungeon, it's also just a lot more boring.

I mentioned recently that we were waiting on this change until the new GUI was done, but I've changed my mind -- I'm implementing it now and it will be in the next snapshot build. (The GUI display will be rudimentary, but good enough for now.)

Here's how it will work:

• Hunting groups will be capped at six players instead of 10.
• When fighting elite and boss monsters, only the first group that attacks it will be able to loot it.
• The monster will become "locked" to the first attacker's group, with a little lock icon visible to other players and groups to let them know.
• Each member of the locked group will get their own share of treasure, just as they do now, but no one outside that group will be able to loot the corpse.
• This applies to elites and bosses only! Looting rights for other monsters will continue as they are now.
• This only affects loot. Things like XP, combat wisdom, and curse removal remain as they are now.

That's it. It's actually a pretty small change, all told. It doesn't change other game mechanics, because right now I'm mostly concerned about the proliferation of loot.

This change is really important for group dungeons like Labyrinth and Gazluk Keep, but I'm also eager to see how this affects druid events. Right now, it seems that druids group up into mega-groups, sometimes with over a dozen people killing the same hapless monster, even when it would be much faster to split up. If druids start grouping in more sensibly-sized groups, several of the events will become much faster -- possibly too fast, it's hard to tell. That's information I need before adding the next batch of druid events.

We'll take it slowly and see the ramifications of this change, then make other changes as necessary. We’ll be watching our metrics, of course, but -- as always! -- we will need your feedback.

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--Difficulties with the New System--
The main complaints with the new system seem to center around mobs being tagged and then not killed. This can happen for a number of reasons, including:

1. Inadvertent/don't understand loot system
2. Miscommunication
3. Hitting mob to stun/disable to avoid it without intention of killing (e.g. passing through area during druid event)
4. Hitting mob to gain looting rights and then pulling it to a stronger player to kill it for you.
5. Hitting a mob to deprive other players of the ability to loot it, just to upset them.

Of these, the last two are the most serious, and would almost certainly be categorized as griefing.

~~For some reason i am unable to upload the full content of my message in a single post. I get an error saying it contains more than 6 images, so continued below.

Here is a selection of other relevant posts and comments on the matter (there are a lot of other pertinent comments in the linked threads):

Spoiler:

https://forum.projectgorgon.com/show...-March-25-2017

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Originally Posted by SassySusie

2nd instance was the druid event in south serbule right after the update. I happened to see a couple of players jumping on top of the water doing AOE spells and hitting everything locking everyone else out, hardly scratching the health. It looked to be on purpose, so I had done my part and left the area. This may have worked in other games but this is day one and I am already seeing problems with it.

Just some of my thoughts and what I have seen thus far. Before I start turning players in though for abusing the loot system I like to talk to them and inform them this is what they are doing. If I get a smart ass reply or a basic kiss my ass response then I will bother the Devs with it. But they really do have enough to deal with.

Respect is all it takes sometimes. I think this loot system can work well if people would show a bit of respect and courtesy.

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Originally Posted by drivendawn

As for the loot rules and party size part of the update: I think they are both great moves and will make grouping more common and provide more challenge so things aren't just steamrolled (Not to mention IMO a much needed time sink). Even if some party beats you to a claim it's what a 15 min. respawn and there are tons of mobs in the druid events so join a group and its no problem. :) Although, if someone gets the claim on a boss and dies it should no longer be locked so others can get the claim.

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https://forum.projectgorgon.com/show...-on-loot-locks

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Originally Posted by Arindor

I am a bit concerned that the new loot mechanics might not be beneficial to gameplay. Perhaps the problem is that I'm not understanding the mechanics correctly, and if so I apologize in advance, and please feel free to correct me. I do like the *intent* of the new "close corpse" loot mechanic, and think that is all fine as long as it gets implemented as described. My concern is what seems to be the new "tag it" and it's your loot mechanic. I've already run afoul of that with a few trains in Kur Tower - where I get trained, have to kill the mobs, only to find that I get no reward despite getting trained. This new mechanic seems to be a vector for abuse, (in addition to encouraging folk to train mobs onto others).

With this new mechanic, I can easily see some malicious players "tagging" a target, and then letting another player or group kill it for them. If it really works this way, a player with a ranged ability could follow another player (or group) around "tagging" any target the player moved toward. I remain convinced that the most fair mechanic was the "most damaged" mechanic that existed previously. Sure, abuse of the new mechanic can be handled by reporting the abusive player. But why add a mechanic that creates a slew of abuse tickets?

Another concern I have is players that run through an area and cast area-effects on every mob around, and then just move on without looting. I'm sure this is great for levelling up an ability, but for folk grinding for materials and/or gear, not so helpful. Not burying the corpses (as we all know) slows down the respawn rate. So folk have to wait for the corpses to disappear, and then the respawns, before they can resume grinding. Why not put a timer on each corpse that after a certain amount of time, anybody can loot/skin/butcher the corpse and/or bury it, before it disappears on its own? At least that way, having somebody come through and nuke everything around and not loot would not be such an incredible downer.

As far as the druid event issues, it seems certain mobs need to be exempt from the new loot-locks. That would seem to be relatively easy to implement, but perhaps I'm oversimplifying...

In summary, I feel:

• Fix the "close corpse" mechanic.
• Leave the basis for the loot locking mechanic as it was (e.g. "most damaged" vs "first tagged").
• Consider a loot expiration timer.
• Exempt certain mobs from loot locking.

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Originally Posted by Niph

Maybe use "most damage", and the first to aggro gets a x2 multiplier, to avoid kill steal (if not the first to aggro, you would have to do 2/3 of the damage to get the loot.)

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Originally Posted by cratoh

I'd prefer full combat lock.

It needs to be that once the mob is tagged, it is locked to the individual that tagged it till either they, or the mob is dead. No outside people can damage it, no one ca 'help' the person by taunting it off them, or healing them etc.

I recently ran alts through crypt prior to changes and some other areas and was amazed that now it is a bit busier how many people would just come and start wailing on the mob I was killing. Rude! Locked loot goes some way towards this but without full combat log it won't work.

I know it is cookie cutter of what EQ2 implemented but it worked.

If it is combat locked and liek that till either person dies that removes a load of the problems.

EQ2 also featured 'call for help' for if you were fihting and got in trouble with the mob, you could break combat lock by calling for help which also made the mob no-loot. Perhaps developing something similar here but maybe if you called for help then whoever did the most damage got the loot.

Finbarr

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https://forum.projectgorgon.com/show...ooting-changes

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Originally Posted by shardelay

This will make druid events more tiresome for sure - and that should probably be addressed (i'd guess by maybe reducing the quantity of mobs in the druid events?).

But, before this change (and even somewhat after) groups were mostly pointless. We all just cluster and sprint through a dungeon. It's lots of folks soloing at the same time against the same monster. Reduced group sizes and changed looting rules force us to actually actively group and work together a little bit more. The lack of distinct roles still means we all sort of DPS at the same time, but at least we are now obliged to do that in groups. And, with an MMO, interaction (This means groups) is a selling point no?

That said - I think first touch is a problem - better perhaps to be most damage? First touch can create griefing. Most damage can generate kill stealing, but 'd rather someone KS'd than hit a mob once and hid leaving it locked. How long does the lock last?

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https://forum.projectgorgon.com/show...k-this-one-out!

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Originally Posted by mrwarp

OK so now that most of us have experienced a druid event under the new group and loot rules, what do you think?

Personally, I hate it. I felt there was no value or real incentive to even show up. I can live with not making xp for a while. I'll show up make a couple hits, sit at the drop and collect my blessings because I'm not going to get anything else out of it. I think an exception to the loot rule needs to be made here. Either revert to the old loot rules specifically for the event or come up with a "tag it and you can loot" type of rule. The tag option will at least keep people engaged. I see a loot lock icon and 3 droaches heading towards me and think "why should I bother?". I hope a better solution can be found and implemented.

I will say this much so that I'm clear: This isn't something that would make me rage quit or anything like that, although it would make me think twice about messing with the druid skill if I were contemplating taking it.

And yes...I know...we're testing. That's why I'm posting this. (This was for all those who were about to play the "calm down it's an alpha test" card) :cool:

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Originally Posted by ANT3RA

I was surveying in Eltibule at the time of this event. While I was sorting out my maps i was watching the event unfold.

I saw a number of people tag mobs and then run to the next mob to tag etc, then running off not killing the tagged mobs. I can think of a number of reasons for doing this, but that would be speculation at this stage.

If they were expecting high lvl players to kill the mobs, this wasn't working as players were leaving tagged mobs alone to roam around tagged until killed by someone else. If they were doing it to grief, that is another issue.

What caught my eye though is that players were not assisting each other, but rather killing mobs solo, if they were high enough lvl, or sticking to their groups and going from mob to mob etc. Solo or group, no one entity helped another.

Then what i saw was a large number of players at the Serbule port just standing there because they could not do anything due to the tagged mobs outnumbering untagged mobs.

Global chat was interesting.

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I guess quotes count as images? Anyways, continued below again. Edit: oh now i see, it's because of the smilies... whoops.

Spoiler:

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Originally Posted by BuddyLove

I agree the Druid events are starting to get silly. Twice now since the new loot rules came into force, I have attended an event ( 1x south serb and 1 x etibule ) where I have not managed to get tagged on a mob before the end of the ecvent :( = no blessing for me.
South serb you had an asshat in the middle of the water AOEing mobs, not causing any damage but locking all the mobs. Then the even tin etible, I arrived about 10 mins in and couldn't find anything to tag / kill.

So many people just tagging 1 mob then just standing round waiting for others to kill it.

Also witht he new loot rule and less loot , it has reduced the amount of non druids helping with the event, as they now get just about nothing in return :(
Just another example of how the community spirt is being killed of :(

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--My Vision of Goals for the Loot System--
What should the loot system look like? I'm sure everyone has a different picture (likely with a lot of overlap and agreement). Here's some of what i'd like to see:

• For bosses/elites, Limited group size with each member getting a loot share. I wouldn't want to go back to the old system, for reasons outlined above. Mainly that it's easier to balance difficulty. I was a bit on the fence on whether i think there should just be one chunk of loot, or a copy for each member, but in the end i think the cameraderie of each member getting a share of the spoils suits my taste.
• A fair distribution of loot when multiple groups are contesting a mob. Of course it's difficult to say what this means. Who should get what? Dibs/tagging? Seems to open the window for griefing. Most damage? Now people can kill-steal. I'll circle back to this later.
• Perhaps most importantly, the loot system should promote a fun atmosphere and community. Ideally everyone should get the loot system they want when they want it, at least most of the time.

--Proposals--
So (finally) here are my suggestions:

Part 1: Lootlock
Add a /lootlock command with two settings: 'Tag' and 'Damage' (e.g. "/lootlock tag"). The command would apply when you are solo, or to all your group members if you are the leader of your group. For boss/elites, the setting would determine the loot functionality for any mob you (or your group) tag (in the current sense). The 'Tag' setting would be the current behavior in game; any mob your group kills would be lootable by your group. If you have 'Damage' set when you tag a mob, then whichever group deals the most damage to the mob gets the loot. The 'Damage' lock would need a different icon, so other players could see how the mob is tagged.

The idea is that this will help differentiate the people who are trying to grief others by tagging mobs (with the Tag setting enabled) from those who are inadvertently tagging mobs, or just trying to be helpful. If you are just trying to help, you can switch your lootlock setting to "Damage" and you won't accidentally grief anyone.

Part 2:Griefing detection
With the lootlock command in place, we create a new method to help identify griefers. They will be groups or individuals who have "Tag" set, but they won't be doing significant damage to mobs. If the system automatically detects say 3 mobs in a row that you tag without dealing much damage (say under 5% of the mob's health over 30 seconds -- if another group kills it sooner, you wouldn't receive a warning. Also it would count any damage you are dealing, so if you are killing other mobs that wouldn't illicit a warning either), you would get a warning message, e.g. "[SYSTEM]: You are tagging monsters without damaging them. Don't expect other players to win your fight for you! Please type '/lootlock Damage' to avoid bogarting the mobs". If the behavior continues, the lootlock setting could be automatically switched, and increasing punishments could apply if the griefing persists.

Part 3: solo mobs
The changes to solo mobs are moving in the right direction, i think. It's great to be able to bury other people's mobs. But if they don't open the corpse, having to wait 90 seconds is quite a while. If people are farming just for the xp and ignoring loot and not burying, it can cause a problem. So we could extend the lootlock setting to apply to normal mobs too. Here we could add a third option "/lootlock Open" (or use a separate command "/lootsolo Open") to make it so anyone can loot your corpses. If people are killing mobs and not ever opening the corpses while they have lootlock set to Tag or Damage, they could receive a warning like above.

Part 4:easing the burden on the server
If it would be too expensive to have the server doing this check on every player, we could have a way to mark players who we think are griefing ('/lootgriefer alleryn') and the server could only run checks when it had a report (or 2 reports) on a player in the last half hour, or something like that.

--Conclusion--
This is what i came up with after a little brainstorming. It's probably not a very refined idea, and i'm sure some of you have better ideas either of your own, or ways other MMOs have dealt with the loot issue, but i wanted to put in my best thought of how we can keep loot fairly distributed and limit griefing. Thanks for reading.

That seems really complex x-x

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Originally Posted by Crissa

That seems really complex x-x

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Yeah... I do actually like alleryn's suggestion, especially being able to set our own desired level of locking. I just think we also want something that is going to be reasonably simple to explain. Of course, I don't have any simpler or better suggestions of my own at the moment. :)

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Originally Posted by Crissa

That seems really complex x-x

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I'm not sure it's really any more complex than the current "/loot free" and "/loot open" group looting settings. I probably just didn't explain it all that well. Is there any part in particular that you think is too complicated?

Err, in that loot settings would be changed per user somehow?

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Originally Posted by Crissa

Err, in that loot settings would be changed per user somehow?

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Group leaders can already change loot settings within their group. I don't know that this would really be such a far cry from that.

I don't see how this helps the open world problem, then.

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Originally Posted by Crissa

I don't see how this helps the open world problem, then.

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As i see it the main problems are these:

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Originally Posted by alleryn

• Hitting mob to gain looting rights and then pulling it to a stronger player to kill it for you.
• Hitting a mob to deprive other players of the ability to loot it, just to upset them.

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Part of my idea is to make it easier to identify players who are doing this, by allowing players to "turn off" tagging. So, say i'm at a druid event and i'm low level or in a low level group. I/my group can't kill the mobs on our own. In the current system, there's no way to differentiate between players who are trying to help and those who are just trying to leech off of high level players by tagging mobs and trying to get the high level players to kill them for them.

In the proposed system, the helpful players would have the option to set their tagging to a separate setting so that elite and boss loot behaves like normal mobs behave now (whoever does the most damage gets the loot).

So if someone still has their tagging set to the new "first hit" system, but isn't dealing any serious damage, they could more easily be identified as someone just trying to leech.

Does that make any sense?

I don't see how that would help, since players unaware of the system wouldn't take advantage of it.

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Originally Posted by Crissa

I don't see how that would help, since players unaware of the system wouldn't take advantage of it.

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There would be an automated message if you locked a mob and failed to do significant damage over the next 30 seconds, which would eventually automatically switch you to the "non-tag" mode or provide a punishment if the griefing persisted.

This sounds like a way to force the issue onto the Players rather than having a good strong design. Maybe it would help more with identifying those looking to just grief, but adding another option is also just another thing that is easily overlooked by inexperienced Players. I would advise against adding automated messages, especially with the current layout of Chat and Battle Messaging (which is pretty rough IMO, although maybe saved by the 'all-saving' new UI that is coming).

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Originally Posted by Yertle

This sounds like a way to force the issue onto the Players rather than having a good strong design. Maybe it would help more with identifying those looking to just grief, but adding another option is also just another thing that is easily overlooked by inexperienced Players. I would advise against adding automated messages, especially with the current layout of Chat and Battle Messaging (which is pretty rough IMO, although maybe saved by the 'all-saving' new UI that is coming).

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What good strong design would you suggest?

Well after trying hard to work with the new loot system, my verdict is that I feel it sucks balls as I thought it would. Seeing wonderful griefing especially during druid events and see people doing interesting mobs but with their guild only. There is a distinct lack of the social side of the game now when there were global invites, I havent seen ONE for DAYS. Basically you are forced into a guild now and no chance if you are not geared well enough to get into anything.

A backwards step imo.

I have a lot of respect for this game and have donated towards it but if it just turns into another standard game then my interest will wane rapidly.

The overall intention of this idea is spectacular. Perhaps the inability to "tag" is the solution. Instead of first hit, mobs don't become tagged to a player/group until X% of health/armor damage is done. This would avoid the "crap! Stun run away" locks and also prevent that griefer with the ranged attack hitting just before your puller reaches the mob, and is too close to avoid combat.Consistent damage from the Tagging group/player to keep it locked is one way around the griefer. Locks could drop if consistent follow up damage isn't being done.
I can see some problems with only the highest damage being permitted to loot though. This gives the "elite" player the advantage and chokes the lower levels who are trying to participate.

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Originally Posted by Tura

I can see some problems with only the highest damage being permitted to loot though. This gives the "elite" player the advantage and chokes the lower levels who are trying to participate.

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Yeah, I'd go with most damage, except... That.

As I said in another thread for the druid events they could make it where the individual or group will have to do a certain % damage to be able to loot. That way loot is a little more obtainable but you still have to work for it. Also it would still encourage grouping because you will have a better chance at that % damage if you are.

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Originally Posted by drivendawn

As I said in another thread for the druid events they could make it where the individual or group will have to do a certain % damage to be able to loot.

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But in big groups, you're even less likely to do a certain percentage of the damage. The bigger the group, the less likely.

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Originally Posted by Crissa

But in big groups, you're even less likely to do a certain percentage of the damage. The bigger the group, the less likely.

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Not if you have a shared percentage with your group.

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Originally Posted by drivendawn

Not if you have a shared percentage with your group.

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How does that help in events that are larger than a group? The elite group does massive damage, gets all the loot? O-o

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Originally Posted by Crissa

How does that help in events that are larger than a group? The elite group does massive damage, gets all the loot? O-o

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There are tons of elite mobs in druid events and this way they can't lock them by doing aoe's or anything. If there is a certain percentage you have to get on a mob they will want to focus more on just maybe a couple to make sure they are able to get loot.

Totally over complicated, no offense!

I disagree as well. I like the simple system from eq2.

Tag it, kill it. Once it is tagged it is locked. Either it kills you, or you kill it, or you break combat whereupon it goes invulnerable and resets.

So, so simple.

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Originally Posted by cratoh

Totally over complicated, no offense!

I disagree as well. I like the simple system from eq2.

Tag it, kill it. Once it is tagged it is locked. Either it kills you, or you kill it, or you break combat whereupon it goes invulnerable and resets.

So, so simple.

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I think this works well in dungeons in this game and want it to stay that way but in the druid events people are running around using aoe's and locking everything away from the majority that shows up.

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Originally Posted by drivendawn

I think this works well in dungeons in this game and want it to stay that way but in the druid events people are running around using aoe's and locking everything away from the majority that shows up.

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Yes, and this is being discussed in another thread I believe :) Normal play, and world event play need to be seperated, they are two different kettles of fish. I offered the perfect solution to druid and future world events in that thread too, nothing original I'm afraid, just auto-group joining, and removing all loot from them.

The elephant in the room is still really the ultimate griefing - high level players disrupting low level content by white knighting people through content which is beyond them.

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Originally Posted by cratoh

I disagree as well. I like the simple system from eq2.

Tag it, kill it. Once it is tagged it is locked. Either it kills you, or you kill it, or you break combat whereupon it goes invulnerable and resets.

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That's terrible. You can't help someone, and if you take too long to kill something the encounter resets. It's gamey and annoying.

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Originally Posted by cratoh

The elephant in the room is still really the ultimate griefing - high level players disrupting low level content by white knighting people through content which is beyond them.

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No. Just no.

The discussion is how to distribute loot in open world events so that everyone has fun - groups of weaker and stronger players. And how to keep groups or singletons from disrupting that intentionally or not.

Here is my solution:

1. Keep the same loot system than in the rest of the game (first hit or most damage, whatever).

2. Implement a grouping system where people don't have to be 10 feet from each other, or use a geeks-only, slash command with full name to start a group. Instead, with a new user-interface, they can 'start a group' and 'join a group'. You can see group member's name beforehand. You start one or join one with a click.

3. Make sure events take place in large zones so that elites (such as myself) can't be everywhere.

4. Implement level-adjusted loot. I think this is on devs' list already.

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Originally Posted by alleryn

What good strong design would you suggest?

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From the way I read it, they have implemented the Loot changes in order to control Group size, not really to promote any sort of feature nor to prevent any player issues, so I would recommend solving that problem and leaving the Loot as it was. Which I have suggested finding ways of scaling the content to present more of a challenge based on the Group size rather than restricting the Group size to fit the content as is.