The update notes are here: https://forum.projectgorgon.com/show...4432#post14432
Discussion is in this thread! But please remember to report any bugs through the in-game reporting system so we can track them.
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The update notes are here: https://forum.projectgorgon.com/show...4432#post14432
Discussion is in this thread! But please remember to report any bugs through the in-game reporting system so we can track them.
That's quite a beefy update, long read but lot of goodies in there. Thanks !
I'm VERY excited to see thorns are a more viable tactic, and the thorns skills get more thorny mods! Stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself.
Just logged in to see toxic flesh and phoenix strike didn't get any thorns love. Maybe it was forgotten?
Today is FullMoon so for the future plans try not to update game before fullmoon, first offering for ancient pagan good then updating game and it will be working from start (no need to delay
back to topic:
Good Work with Fire Magic and Shamanic infusion i like it much :) Sh is much more nice skill now :) and "newbies friendly" "P
Shamanic infusion easier to levl up? I just recently almost maxed it out :(
Nice changes overall. One question thugh - I recently wanted to craft new set of gear, and realized that coated Yellow crystals can't be used in crafting. Is it intended?
Love the update! I have noticed at least a couple "puzzle" style locations which is one of my favorite aspects of PG and I'm glad to see more of those. I noticed there are new racial slot items with more useful buffs (at least for rakkie) which is much appreciated and the new potions from the ratkin are interesting. The new mobs are neat and while I haven't used it I like that there is a more combat util based gadgeteering item now.
One this I am especially grateful for is that the "daily" quest is a 3 day reset and not a proper daily. I really find dailies to be cumbersome in MMORPGs as they seem to penalize you in comparison to other players for not being able to log on every day. 3 days is a nice compromise in that regard.
Precognition is fantastic - was wondering how that would play out when I read the update and I think the little visual is a great way to display incoming mobs. Great for waiting if you're farming an area and kiting if you're trying to avoid being overwhelmed.
Also cr00cy I believe there is a way to un-coat the crystals making them harmful again, but usable in crafting.
You should be able to double-click a coated crystal to uncoat it for use. There may even be a right click option for it as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by cr00cy
Will calligraphy be getting an overhaul since the percent based buffs are now weaker?
The damage formula change is something I'm pretty conflicted about. On one hand it's great to make it simpler to avoid future issues and so it's more obvious how it works to players, but on the other hand I feel like it might be a bit too simple now and it takes the fun out of theory crafting a bit. That's just a personal thing for me though.
One issue I have with the damage formula change for sure though is the effect it has on modifiers that increase damage from a specific damage type. Because of the change, many boosts to damage type bonus are weak now and I feel like it hurts the game's balance overall. Additionally, these damage type bonuses were a major reason to make specific builds around a certain damage type.
For example, spring fairy armor is incredibly weak armor wise, but it gave a large bonus to elemental damage due to this bonus being at the end of the damage formula. This bonus was very important to lightning damage builds such as Hammer/Mentalism, which didn't have great damage in the first place due to not having great bonuses on mods, and was a fair trade off for having very low armor. Now however, spring fairy armor is incredibly weak and hardly worth the armor trade off at all. Because of most of Hammer/Mentalism's damage mods being % based, the bonus from spring fairy armor doesn't stack at all and it seriously hurts the idea of using it as a damage build. This is just one example as well, tailoring's enhanced elemental damage, abilities dedicated to boosting damage types like Way of the Hammer, and skills like calligraphy are also much weaker as well as the builds based around them.
If this change in the damage formula is to persist, I would like to ask that some of these increases to damage types be buffed to compensate at the very least. % damage bonuses on armor should be increased very heavily, and abilities dedicated to improving damage should be increased by a decent amount as well (So it's worth using them in the middle of combat rather than just another attack).
I think the only thing that legitimately might have deserved this nerf was Werewolf's mod for crushing damage on skulk, and that was only because it was a ridiculously high modifier. Otherwise I think these elemental damage bonuses were very healthy for the game overall.
A lot of the changes aren't particularly relevant to me, so I won't comment on them, but I do want to quickly jot down my first impressions of the new dungeon while it's fresh in my mind.
Overall, the place is pretty good. It seems a little over-tuned, but given the patch-notes I'd expected it to be so. The place is varied and requires a diverse strategy to fully explore at the appropriate level (given I died often enough by the way of not being prepared in any capacity), though even so I feel the poison damage was far too high from the vipers on the first floor.
On the second floor, my only two issues were the chain stuns (I forget which monster does this) and the cave sections, where the monsters tend to blend into the background.
Beyond that, it's hard to gauge if the dungeon would be useful for its intended level range without actually trying to progress through it with a level 55 character. Having some sort of option to purposefully lower your level could be handy to that end (though I doubt many people would use it).
Agree with Yaffy.
Well explained.
I was wondering if Hammer and Buckle Artistry were considered for this change? There is a lot of hammer mods which add % dmg based on rage and such. Also Buckle Artistry buckles don't seem to be as interesting anymore since there are many kinds of normal belts which do much more interesting things than add some percent of dmg.
:):):) good stuff
Yeah I have to say past 3 months Hammer skill has been dismantled, as Yaffy saying with my fairy spring armor I got very low armor, Hammer skill has high aggro and the latest update my hurl lightning went from 2300 to 1500, hammer epic doesn't even hit for 3000 on a 60 sec cool down, while wolf's hit now for 4000-5000 every 30 sec. Game becoming more unbalanced and some skills becoming merely road kill in the grand scheme.
We'll be revising more damage-type-mod gear and recipes in the next update. (Well, not the next quick-fix update, which is tomorrow, but the next "real" update.)
A warning about those damage-mod recipes: I expect we'll increase the potency of those recipes, but due to technical limitations we usually can't convert old equipment that already uses those recipes, so they will probably be stuck with the old (current) values. So unfortunately you may need new gear to get the updated effects. I'm sorry about that, preemptively; we try to update all gear "in-place" when possible, but sometimes it's just too expensive (in terms of dev time).
Edit: hmm, it may be possible to do conversion for those recipes -- I'll have to see. The items don't store what recipes were used on them, so I have to write "sleuthing" code that analyzes the item and tries to figure out what happened to it. "Oh, it has +3% fire damage and it's missing 60 enhancement points, I think I know what happened here..." That sort of code gets really ugly really fast, and usually causes more problems than its worth. But given the small number of recipes involved I may be able to do it. I'm not sure.
At the very least, you should hold off on using those recipes on new items.
I just wish sword damage base potions didnt require pemphredo eyes there not easy to get in bulk other skills that require less expensive/mats have it way easier I might have to ditch sword to this nerf its way over the top
Sword wasnt op to begin with and now this happens I chose sword cuz I thought it was the least likely to get effected by nerfs -_- and now I have been proven wrong
Thanks for the post Citan, hopefully you can figure out a nice way to fix up those items, but don't worry too much if it's a huge hassle. Maybe an alternative could be something that removes crafted bonuses like those and gives back the enhancement points? It would make players lose the crafting materials, but those aren't a super big deal if it ends up being easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Citan
Incoming wall of text I wanted to share about damage type bonuses...
Bonuses to damage types were typically very small, but they scaled very well because it didn't matter how well geared of a player you were. Whether you did 100 damage or 1000 damage, a 5% boost increased your damage by 5% (In most situations). This meant these bonuses would be consistently helpful. It also added an interesting element to figuring out what gear you wanted because a 5% bonus would negligible if you could just grab a much easier base damage mod, but when you were highly geared a "universal" 5% damage increase could mean a lot of extra damage, especially if you exhausted all the mods you could get.
Currently, elemental damage bonuses are very comparable to base damage modifiers. They give extra damage to a wide set of abilities (Based on damage type rather than skill), but they don't scale well. At best it scales with flat damage bonuses at the cost of being a bit more awkward to use, but the availability of flat damage bonuses varies a lot for different skills.
Because these bonuses don't scale with player strength naturally anymore, it's important to have these bonuses scale heavily with player level. However I think that the new damage formula might make things hard to balance, because in order to be comparably as strong as they used to be, the bonuses need to be very high.
For example, a fully modded Hurl Lightning from hammer could hit for around 1181, only using mods for Hurl Lightning, base damage increases for hammer, and the universal "More damage to enraged enemies".
262 *3.66 + (262* 1.85 - 262) =1181
Previously, a full set of enchanted Spring Fairy armor could add 36% more lightning damage, which would multiply the whole formula. This resulted in 1607 damage.
(262 *3.66 + (262* 1.85 - 262)) *1.36 =1607
Now however, due to the formula change, the bonus now only adds a bit under a hundred damage.
262 *4.02 + (262* 1.85 - 262) =1276
And now to prove my point, if we took the 36% lightning damage bonus and changed it into base damage, we get the exact same damage.
262 *3.66 + (262* 2.21 - 262) =1276
And since in this case, elemental bonuses = base damage, we can do the math to figure out what base damage equivalent would make it do the same damage before the change.
262 *3.66 + (262* ( x+1.85) - 262) =1607, x=1.62
So because of the new damage formula, in order to be around the same in terms of effectiveness, a set of spring fairy armor enchanted with lightning damage would have to give around 162% bonus damage. This is split between the chest/pants/shoes and the enchanted lightning on the chest/pants, which might mean giving each piece of the set something like 30% bonus damage and having the enhancement add a similar amount. This is just one case obviously, and it only looks this bad because Hurl Lightning doesn't naturally get any flat damage bonuses (The elemental damage = base damage comparison wouldn't work if you were using a shocking masquerade mask for example), but it shows just how big of a change the damage formula is and how much numbers need to increase to be around where they were before. I think it's safe to say that the damage formula change has cut the effectiveness of these boosts from 3-4 times.
The real question is, as the developer would you be willing to give body armor what is essentially 30% more base damage? I know one purpose of the patch was to reduce player damage overall, but compared to the other overall nerfs to % modifiers the damage boost would still be something around 24-27%. One issue is that while those numbers would be fair for a player with good gear, 30% base damage would be a substantial amount for a player with no bonuses. I personally believe this might be fair, because crafting spring fairy armor is a huge pain to craft and therefore a new level 70 player would probably acquire some modded armor before going straight into crafting it.
This isn't limited to equipment either of course. Skills such as Way of the Hammer which are focused around increasing damage are affected in the same way. If the effectiveness of it has been cut by 3-4 times, then you can say Way of the Hammer's 15% boost is more like a 5% damage boost for well geared players, which is way too low for a 10 second buff. However, unlike a full set of enchanted Spring Fairy armor, you probably don't want to increase it to a 45% boost because it's very easy to get. In cases like these, the damage formula change makes it a lot harder to balance these skills. Skills like bruising blow are much weaker as well, but aren't as badly affected since it does damage even if its main purpose is the debuff. In these cases you might want to change the buff to flat damage, add an additional effect, or maybe make the mods for the skill improve the damage buff by a decent amount so it scales with how well geared players are if the player puts mods into the skill.
Anyways sorry for the wall of text, but I hope it gives some food for thought. I personally believe it might be a bit simpler to keep elemental % bonuses separate from skill % bonuses because it makes it a lot easier to balance. Plus, having at least another layer of multipliers to damage allows for more design choices. If you want to keep the new formula though, then a lot of things based on it definitely need to be rebalanced.
Well... every skill was affected, not only sword, so I'm not sure what are you complaining about.Quote:
Originally Posted by spider91301
@Yaffy - I agree that Skulk needed nerf, this thing was way over the top.
So I got some time to play around with new update, here are my thoughts:
1) I didn't felt much change to my damage to be honest (I'm playing Wolf/unarmed). Skulk still gives crazy damge bonus, even though (at least according to tooltip) its lower than before, its still enough to 1-shot most mobs.
2) New dungeon seems fine overall. The thing I like abotu it is that it has it's.. lets call it 'theme'. You go in, you explore for a bit, and you know what you are dealing with and how to preapere. I think mobs on upper level deal a bit too much damage with they dot's, it might be good to tune it down. Ratkin's are mostly fine, imo. Even though they high evasion is annoying, fact they are concentrated in single area makes exploring this dngeon much easir. You know that if you want to fight them, you need some accurace.
One complain I have, is that Necro Shaman's root last a bit too long. Overall, this dungeon seems to favor ranged classes over melee, but then again, ranged always have advantage over melee so it's not that bad.
I was hoping for some more lore there, maybe some puzzles and secrets to explore. I know there are this braziers, (I wasn't able to figure how to ligth last one...) And those leavers (I used all of them but didn't noticed anyting happening...). But they are kind just sitting there, without any explanation.
About other changes:
Damage formula - like I siad, I didn't noticed much difference in my damage output, but then again I fought only in new dungeon. Today I'll try some higher lv mobs, see how it will go.
Elite mobs HP change - to be honest, I would prefer if they damage went down. Many fights with stonger mobs feel like they are luck-based, since you cna get killed extremally fast if mobs crit few times. Right now, we are encuraged to focus on burting down mobs as fast as posisble, which I think is not good thing.
@Edit
Ok, I ran a bit in Tover view/Amaluk Valley cave in Gazluk (aka Worg Cave). Pefore last patch using Skul+ Barrage or Bite, I coudl easly one-shot Barghest rooms (Bargest+2 wolves). Now, They surrive with around 10-15% health, so my damage is noticably lower.
Not that I mind, it's give me chance to use other skills.
Hoever, I noticed that there is not much difference when it comes to damge of my DoT's. I picked all mods increasing Trauma damage I could, to make bleed build. Sanguine Fangs dot's seems to be doing similar amount of damage, not sure about Mamba Strike, since its tooltip don't show effects of % increase on it's trauma damage. I will test it on dummies later on, but I don't expect much change here. Before update, elemental boosts were only thing affecting this type fo additional damage - so it was always Flat dmage * Elemental % increase.
So, this seems like nerf to direct damge, but neutral change for Dot - based builds. One coudl argue its indirect buff, since thy are now slightly stronger comapred to directd amge, but then agin elite's HP got lower, so thsi might balance things out.
I'll attempt to solo Pask at some point, see how it will go. I was able to do it before patch, unless I got swarmed, or got unlucky with crits (please nerf crits, they are too much).
One more thing - Patch notes mentioned soemthign about buffing mods that give skils small amount of healing, but I don't think any of wolf/unarmed mods were buffed - or it was change so small I didn't noticed.
I also feel like sword was in an ok spot compared to other melee skills. It is definitely considerably weaker now.
Maybe a boost to calligraphy will help.
Lycan still is overpowered.
Pretty much 100% of the stuff I say publicly (in global and on the forum) involves complaints. So...
I just wanted to say that you guys (devs) have continued to prove that I was correct in choosing this game. When you try and convince someone to play it, "early access mmo" gets some people to immediately turn off. However, the fact remains that you guys are dedicated to making this a wonderful game and the content part of this patch proves as much.
...
Shame on you for completely decimating hammer though. Shame.
Damn Yaffy always posts those wall of texts someone should make a bot that examines the text of a Yaffi's comment and makes a TL;DR version. Cool to see citan giving some love to more niche mods such as the reflection ones.
Sad that Fire Bolts was changed. Would rather have seen Fire Wall get completely nixed instead of revamped, or Defensive Burst. Glad there was a little damage love for the skill overall. Excited to explore new content, but haven't had a chance to get in yet.
I mean at least now its not so complicated and its more lazy friendly not to bother crafting the other junk now im half serous on that note dont have to think as much since the buffs pretty much do nothing anymoreQuote:
Originally Posted by Yaffy
The Molten Veins ability seems a bit short lived. If it is going to live on the main ability bar, then you want to get your money's worth. That could mean activating it 6 times a minute. Somehow feels a bit high maintenance. I'd prefer a 20 second run time with less damage, or a longer cool down of 30 or whatever makes sense. I may not have used it enough yet though.
I'd love to make my posts shorter, but I feel like if I don't explain in heavy detail it might not get taken seriously. I mean it's one thing to say "Change this because it's good/bad", but it's another thing to explain with evidence why something it's good or bad. I feel like I have more success convincing others with my posts when I lay out the math behind my reasoning.Quote:
Originally Posted by zirker
Plus, Citan even said it himself before. I was complaining about dangerous weapons being overpowered, and he said that he was tired of hearing of people just saying it was overpowered without explaining where they were getting all the overpowered damage numbers from. Then I made a 2000 word post in response and he seemed to like it a lot more.
A on key explanation wish there was a like system on this forums christ thats a good reason lol better then my half ass answering in global why sh** sucksQuote:
Originally Posted by Yaffy
Hints to necro
I agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by cr00cy
Yep in a nutshell but meh if you dish out good single target dps in gk your basicly screwed its all about the build really kinda wish buckle artistry wasnt just for hammer
Was running from Rahu to Gazluk portal and at one point of my run was confused had to stop and look, seems like Pask got rid of some boulders, heh. Looks like lot of empty space maybe some more houses could be added?
Where in Rahu is the entrance to the sewers?
It may have been the bourbon I was drinking last night but I was having a hard time finding it.
It's at the docks, on the wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Illmaster
Would it be weird if I told you that I love you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaffy
http://wiki.projectgorgon.com/wiki/F...-sewer-map.png
Love me more than him :P
https://i.imgur.com/aOtU7Wl.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Vish
Past the docks hug the wall to the rightQuote:
Originally Posted by Illmaster
The day I have to give up sword and shield this song will be playing in the background
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJXa3POWRCU
I have also sent this in as a bug but maybe I can get another Lycan who is seeing the same thing as I am. So I have been hunting in Amaluk Valley Cave/Tower View Cave and have found that my Skulk + Werewolf bite only kills up to three mobs now. It never used to be like this, Like the mod on my gloves say "Werewolf bite hits ALL enemies within 5 meters" not just three or less. Before this patch I never had a problem with going into a room in this cave hitting skulk, bite and everything was dead. Now if there are more than three skulk and bite do not kill any of them... It actually only does about half health damage to them and so which means instant death for me. Now I am curious whether this is intended to work this way and the Mod is worded wrong... Or if that particular combo is bugged or just plain broken. Has any other Lycan seen this same thing? If you have not noticed then go out and try it please... of course level appropriate mobs, but just make sure there are more than 3.
This is not a bug. This is because the damage formula change has moved the "Skulk causes your next attack to do X% more damage if it is a crushing attack" mod. Instead of being at the end of the formula and multiplying all the damage, it is now combined with all other % boosts to damage, such as "Werewolf bite damage +X%". This also applies to anything else that increases specific damage types by a percentage.Quote:
Originally Posted by SassySusie
Although it's not new, also keep in mind that hitting 4 mobs causes you to hit for 75% damage to all four, rather than 100%. You should be doing less damage after the patch no matter how many targets you're hitting, it's just that the additional 25% damage reduction on top of the damage formula change is what's stopping you from one shotting them. If you're hitting more than 4 your damage gets reduced even further for each additional target until you have 25% damage at 8 or more.
Is this the same for all AOE skills such as archery multi shot, knife fighting fan of blades/Tundra spikes etc?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaffy
What about bramble skin/molten veins and phoenix strike, fire shield etc, does it apply here too, where a mob is hitting you for a bounce back. I would guess not.
It applies to all direct damage from AoE attacks, but it doesn't apply to thorns damage. Thorns was already really good for mass farming before, but now it's even better with all the buffs. It also doesn't affect secondary effects applied by AoEs, including DoTs, slows, stun,etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murk
Also if you're curious, the scaling for AoE attacks is:
3 enemies or less: 100% damage
4 enemies : 75%
5 enemies : 50%
6 enemies :40%
7 enemies :30%
8 or more enemies : 25%
Or at least that's what it was when they implemented the AoE nerf. I don't think it's been changed.