Need to work on Social aspect ASAP

I've been playing this game for a few years now, stopped for a bit and have now come back. I'm just going to try and keep this short with suggestions.

• Needs more tools that help form parties
• Needs more incentive to group play( slight bonus xp, loot, or make content more difficult)
• Needs an optional level sync, I used to hate level sync, but with all of the new players coming in, I really hate the fact that some higher level players are going to "help" the newer players out by one shotting bosses, instead they are actually ruining their experience of the boss and the dungeon.
• Make soloing nearly impossible/inefficient IMO. Design around minimum duoing. IT"S AN MMO FOR A REASON
• Combat is still too fast and messy, really need to slow down combat and define roles better.

Right now this game feels like, solo 90% of the time, grind for materials. Then 10% of the time do a dungeon with a group. Ideally IMO this needs to be more 50/50.

I see where you're coming from, as most MMO's are like that. I'm not poo-pooing your input.

With that said, I don't know how many are playing this and having a wonderful time at it, in that I really like that you can be solo in this game, unlike many of the others. There are several reasons this appeals to people, which I won't list.

As for the MMO side, I have been a proponent of increasing guild size to unlimited, and adding unlimited guild alliance sizes.

If they make this where players can't do their own thing, well...why would I play this and not another MMO? I think they are onto something special here - of course, I could be wrong.

I agree with nearly all your points except #4 . I think the current grouping situation is pretty good as is. If you want mats and trash loot, solo. If you want fast, steady, low-risk XP, group. If you want to play end-game stuff, group. I think addressing #2 on your list would help. On the NWN2 server I played on for years, we were having the same problem with a lack of grouping, until we implemented a script that gave a bump in XP based on the number of players in the group. When that hit, people started grouping up with much more frequency because it became more rewarding to fill out your group up to 6.

Even though i agree with your points about grouping i think removing single player content will hurt the current Gorgon playerbase.

But more group content would be really nice, like hunting spots designed for groups.

I'm sure more hard dungeons will come though.

I did agree on every point except #4

I think if you took out soloing, you'd lose 75% of your players. More reasons to group would be good. I expect a lot of new content will have areas that need a group.

But requiring it will kill the game.

Don't you get the same xp per kill in group play as solo?

There is huge incentive to party(in later dungeons) from how boss drops work and most later mobs being bosses. A party of 5 will each get like 3x the loot of someone soloing. The best EXP when I was levelling was soloing lower level areas but if AoE continues to get nerfed that will change to partying at on level dungeoins.

I found it extremely frustrating with the boss loot and hated the fact that if you're not in a full party you are wasting your time as you're doing things super inefficiently.

Slowing down combat and adding a party finder(like /lfg on eq2) would be quite good.

Best loot in game armor wise is crafted yellow gear, it was frustrating indeed trying to get good loot in general so since I was leveling leatherworking I maxed it and crafted myself a suit, if using a basic ability for combat refresh nothing compares to crafted armor bonuses.

I'm fairly confident at this stage that people are going to try level everything themselves, so there's no real inter-reliance on other players. You can't be like "Hey let's group, you take X and I'll take Y" when you're more likely than not going to be wanting X & Y for yourself.

Forcing grouping is just going to drive away solo players. There's always going to be a type of player that just wants to play alone with people to chat to / show off their accomplishments - you can't really tax that market because it's a MMO.

As for "Level Sync" I still think Project Gorgon should've gone for a smaller power curve beyond level 50 (I.e. a level 70 player is ~10% more powerful than a level 50 one).

All group bonuses would do right now is reinforce the viability of power leveling.

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Originally Posted by Oxlazr

You can't be like "Hey let's group, you take X and I'll take Y" when you're more likely than not going to be wanting X & Y for yourself

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Well, that's how I always group.

Sure, I might want X and Y at some point, but the way stacks work means that I should take X and they should take Y and we should split the things we're getting XP on. It's just much more wasteful to try to hoard everything in your inventory at once.

For the people who keep saying that more group play will drive out the solo players...sorry but most likely if you are ACTUALLY here to play an MMO with PEOPLE, solo players will adapt. And I did suggest a compromise of designing around Duo content rather than solo content.

Honestly if solo players really want to solo, what the hell is the point of coming to an MMO to play then? If soloers are really concerned about epeen, they should go play some eSports like LoL or OW, or Fortnite lol. Otherwise go play single-player RPGs.

And if anything, an overabundance of solo players will drive out people who want to group play.

I want to say this comes from my past experience in FF14 1.0 where you pretty much HAD to group in order to level. At least a duo was needed but ideally a group of 4-8. And you know what? It was great because I met a lot of new people, my guild was created through this process and we had some great times. FF14 2.0 pretty much killed all of that with random group finder.

Want to add group play? My number one suggestion: Make bosses drop EX gear that is better then crafted gear and set them on the same "timer" you have now so you only get the drop once or twice per week.


I would say one of my very few complaints with PG at this stage of development is actually the lack of group play and party form/function. At it's current state who knows up to level 70 may be solo content, a little too much in my opinion, but at some stage it should have moved past being able to very efficiently solo multiple mobs of the same level as I am.

At level 30 or 40 though I feel even open area mobs should not be able to be exp farmed without at least a small group. Not saying there shouldn't be areas in say Eltibule for solo people, but you should get bonus exp for group play making it more efficient to level in that manner. Currently I can just walk out to something like Gnashers comes to mind that gives good exp even for someone well above its level. I can sit there and farm skins, level two jobs, break gear down, eat pizza, and watch Netflix without every worrying about a thing. So not only is it mind numbing easy, it is efficient in multiple areas at the same time.

OP made a point though about actual combat. I started as a healer in this game until I realized it is almost pointless at this stage. Combat is an everyone for themselves button smash while using a few self heals if you pulled aggro. Granted you can effectively use a Cow as a tank and a healer to support them, but it isnt necessary. Even when I found myself in a tank / healer role combat is so fast and random I would just button smash all heal and support skills anyway. I really don't need to even look up. Its like I could set myself to auto-follow and use a key logger to just hit 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 repeat and get the same outcome.

Increase mob HP pools, slow combat down. There are no mechanics really to speak of outside of some cool bosses. Its just a button smash zerg no matter what job you are on, area you are in, mob you are fighting.

But to regress. it is in development, they have already said we are OP in some areas. I love solo console games, I didn't look for this MMO for that. Outside of the transmutation / augment skills there is no reason to group... ever. I only do now to speed up gear drops.

Uhm, I'm grouping every day, sometimes multiple groups.
You guys need to find a decent guild, then you don't have to post ideas that would ruin the game for everyone except a small minority.

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Originally Posted by Taei

For the people who keep saying that more group play will drive out the solo players...sorry but most likely if you are ACTUALLY here to play an MMO with PEOPLE, solo players will adapt.

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I want to tell you to gtfo and never return, but that's too much, so instead I'll say you're being childish.

You want to force people who disagree to suck it up adapt to what you want.

I want to have the option to choose how I play.
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There are already some measures in place to make grouping more relevant, like elite mobs/bosses dropping loot like piñatas for everyone. Maybe a slight exp boost would be in place, together with measures taken to avoid people being able to kill an absurd number of mobs at once w/o risk(and Citan is already on this case).

Btw the lfg function will never happen, unless the devs decide to do a 180 on what they have been telling us for years now.

I group as well, missed the point. You are not grouping due to a need to group. I invent the need to group for myself because I enjoy MMOs. After three years now I look back and really wonder if I had to ever be in a single party.

So you feel a small majority of players would want something like:

Gazluk. Each boss drops 1 of 2 types of gear. That gear they drop will be a random color Max Enchanted and can only drop once a week for you. Final Boss drops a wep or sub, etc etc. A reason to group grind a dungeon and still be on par with someone who leveled a craft, but at the expense of mass grind to get it.

It creates a reason to group, plan, event, social nights/times through content. Right now, I create my own reason.

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Originally Posted by kazeandi

Uhm, I'm grouping every day, sometimes multiple groups.
You guys need to find a decent guild, then you don't have to post ideas that would ruin the game for everyone except a small minority.

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This.

My guild is constantly grouping. For GK or Labs for high level, or just to go do Manticores. For WN and Ilmari for guild quests. Someone low level will ask "are there any groups of low level people for goblin dungeon?" and two will join and a couple of other people log on alts.

As i was leveling up my main character and soloing, i'd constantly get group invites. Or ask someone if they wanted to group. If you want to group more, you certainly can.

But it's also very important that people can solo. Saying "you will adapt" if forced to group is correct - people will either group or quit. Why force people to group if it means people quit the game? Why cut out lots of content? Should you really be forced to get a group when you need materials for trade skills? When you just want to log in and play for an hour?

Saying that there should be more group content is fine. But saying people should not be able to solo? Sorry, no.

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Originally Posted by Raviollius

There are already some measures in place to make grouping more relevant, like elite mobs/bosses dropping loot like piñatas for everyone. Maybe a slight exp boost would be in place, together with measures taken to avoid people being able to kill an absurd number of mobs at once w/o risk(and Citan is already on this case).

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There actually is a slight experience boost for groups! Here's a quote from Citan on the previous forum about it.

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Yep, group XP is split amongst nearby group members, and the XP should already be getting a bonus based on the group size. The current numbers are:

1 person: 100% of the monster's XP value
2 people: 125% total (split two ways)
3 people: 133% total
4 people: 150% total
5 people: 166% total
6 people: 175% total
7 people: 190% total
8-10 people: 200% total

So it's not a huge amount, but should be noticeable! Instead of further raising the percentages, I've been thinking there might be a support role in there, like the bard class might literally boost that XP group bonus, or something like that.

Only nearby group members count, so people that are far away from the combat shouldn't get a split (and shouldn't count towards the number of group members, above)."

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People solo farm in GK using Bard :confused: and you expect people to group up :D ?

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Originally Posted by Taei

For the people who keep saying that more group play will drive out the solo players...sorry but most likely if you are ACTUALLY here to play an MMO with PEOPLE, solo players will adapt.

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As a person who far more often plays solo than not in PG, I honestly agree that I would quickly adapt to the game ruining changes you've proposed in the opening post... I'd adapt to playing another game.

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Originally Posted by Taei

Honestly if solo players really want to solo, what the hell is the point of coming to an MMO to play then? If soloers are really concerned about epeen, they should go play some eSports like LoL or OW, or Fortnite lol. Otherwise go play single-player RPGs.

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Maybe soloers like hearing other sentient beings in global chat. Maybe soloers like player merchants with their uncertainty in prices and wares. Maybe soloers like coming across someone in the wild and having a brief chat. Maybe soloers play solo because they only have half an hour to play, but occasionally group up when they have more time.

There are many reasons why a predominantly solo player may prefer an MMO over a single-palyer RPG.

I can see that PG needs better tools to group; it's clumsy to start and add and change groups right now.

But why would it need to penalize people for not running the top-level dungeons? What the heck kind of idea is that?

I agree with those who say you might want to look into guilds. I am in a group for much of my game time because of my membership in active guilds. It might be to explore the high level dungeons, work on the guild quests, help with a curse, lead a group through a dungeon, group up with a couple people to farm for mats or a group for chatting while you garden or survey. I don't however want to be penalized for not being in a group all of the time or discouraged from heading out on my own to explore. I love that this game gives us choices. Also, I saw someone mention making sure bosses drop better gear than crafted gear. I would think the amount of time put into leveling crafting skills should make you able to craft comparable gear at the top of your skill to that found hunting in the top skill dungeons or what is the incentive of learning a skill? I don't agree with changing that at all. The crafting in PG is fantastic and I adore the fact that I can make so much stuff by learning a craft. I think on both counts PG offers an excellent balance that may wobble a bit one way or another during the testing process but always stays in a very comfortable place of encouraging grouping while allowing you to enjoy the game as a solo player if you wish and also finding or crafting excellent suits (and honestly usually both)

Good points. My boss suggestion really isn't a better then crafting drop, just better then now. I would suggest a boss to have the possibility to drop a max-enchanted item out of a smaller pool or timed cycle as well as lower dungeon bosses dropping max-enchanted craft items. GK 70 gear one boss drops ring/necklace, one drops helm/hands, etc and Labs one boss will drop Vervadium kind of deal.

Right now some dropped gear are already slightly better then regular enchanted versions so I know he has thought of it. For example a Hammer that drops level 70/60 has a higher base % damage mod or can have a generic epic attack mod on it. This game is all about grinds, make this combat drop on level with the time needed to make a max-enchanted item. Can you make a gold in the first attempt or the 100th? Will the boss today drop a green again or the gold I have been looking for the last 4 months?

I think this thread fell off the tracks on this point. It wasn't about not being able to group, it was about the game not creating content driven reasons to. So my suggestion isn't to change anything but to add. Besides that from the PG team side, this suggestion would extend the life cycle of your dungeon content as well. That was my personal reason for the suggestion. After returning to the game I went to GK twice before trans/aug hit 70, the completionist in me then defeated the bosses and now there is no game driven reason for me to go again. So for me GK was new content that had a life cycle of two weeks. Now I go just to go and don't even bother to pick anything up unless I hear a very big ding. That isn't to say that I do not enjoy going as I like the game and time spent in it, but just thinking of ways to add to the game not change it.

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Originally Posted by Ells0430

I agree with those who say you might want to look into guilds. I am in a group for much of my game time because of my membership in active guilds. It might be to explore the high level dungeons, work on the guild quests, help with a curse, lead a group through a dungeon, group up with a couple people to farm for mats or a group for chatting while you garden or survey. I don't however want to be penalized for not being in a group all of the time or discouraged from heading out on my own to explore. I love that this game gives us choices. Also, I saw someone mention making sure bosses drop better gear than crafted gear. I would think the amount of time put into leveling crafting skills should make you able to craft comparable gear at the top of your skill to that found hunting in the top skill dungeons or what is the incentive of learning a skill? I don't agree with changing that at all. The crafting in PG is fantastic and I adore the fact that I can make so much stuff by learning a craft. I think on both counts PG offers an excellent balance that may wobble a bit one way or another during the testing process but always stays in a very comfortable place of encouraging grouping while allowing you to enjoy the game as a solo player if you wish and also finding or crafting excellent suits (and honestly usually both)

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