A Hill Worth Dying On

I would add it because "Currently, the builds that can kill a mob in under 10 seconds (i.e. with 3 or 4 attacks) whether in a group or solo - to minimise rage hits /extreme regeneration rates - offer high success /survivability. Until this alters, player build strategy will not change. Damage output will be prioritised." -Poulter (Note: He uses level 80 max crafted gold with augments and fully modded gear. He also builds Accuracy into his spec. He currently runs with UA /Psy, Fire /Druid and Hammer /Druid.)

And, as I have pointed out before, because "[The Game Developer] has employed various techniques to change [this specific] behavior." -Poulter

And, since the "Problem with evasion is that it has a much higher impact on bursty type builds than on sutaine dones" (-Cr00cy), I believe it would be an "actually pretty tame" (-Citan) way to make sure that there is "the motivation to make that armor or those builds" (-You) so that "People play all kinds of builds" instead of "Burst with tankiness. Burst with healing. Burst with utility."

edit: Furthermore, "I don't want everyone to be in hard core mode but I wouldn't mind some sort of weakness after being killed. I mean a little incentive to not die a lot is all" (-Drivendawn)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roekai

I would add it because "Currently, the builds that can kill a mob in under 10 seconds (i.e. with 3 or 4 attacks) whether in a group or solo - to minimise rage hits /extreme regeneration rates - offer high success /survivability. Until this alters, player build strategy will not change. Damage output will be prioritised." -Poulter (Note: He uses level 80 max crafted gold with augments and fully modded gear. He also builds Accuracy into his spec. He currently runs with UA /Psy, Fire /Druid and Hammer /Druid.)

And, as I have pointed out before, because "[The Game Developer] has employed various techniques to change [this specific] behavior." -Poulter

And, since the "Problem with evasion is that it has a much higher impact on bursty type builds than on sutaine dones" (-Cr00cy), I believe it would be an "actually pretty tame" (-Citan) way to make sure that there is "the motivation to make that armor or those builds" (-You) so that "People play all kinds of builds" instead of "Burst with tankiness. Burst with healing. Burst with utility."

edit: Furthermore, "I don't want everyone to be in hard core mode but I wouldn't mind some sort of weakness after being killed. I mean a little incentive to not die a lot is all" (-Drivendawn)

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I never said it wouldn’t discourage people from using burst. It probably would. It would also discourage a lot of other stuff, and be annoying. RNG is annoying. It’s also frustrating. It isn’t fun.

I didn’t say that everyone was using burst, either. You’re leaving out half of what I said. What I meant was that there is not just one META burst build that everyone was using. Even the people using burst are using a variety of skill lines and a variety of complementary skill lines. This isn’t like some games where everyone always takes the same class with the same exact skills to do the same exact thing. People use almost all the skill lines in a variety of different combinations with a variety of different skills. There isn’t any cookie cutter build everyone must play to be viable.

Why do you care what people do, anyway? This isn’t a PvP game. Balance is only important insofar as all the skills should be good to play and see use in the game. So long as that is happening, what difference does it make to you what people choose to focus on. It doesn’t affect you. If your looking for content that doesn’t exist so you can do a specific kind of gameplay, ask for that. Why do you need to demand that things other people aren’t going to like be rammed down everyone’a throat? What is the point?

There is an even simpler way to make people stop using burst. Nerf the burst skills. I don’t recommend that either, but it would work. I think it is better to add bribes in the form of fun content that encourages variety to get people to change their behavior. There would be less complaints with that approach.

Or you could do what Citan is already doing and raise health. That makes burst less useful because you go on long cool downs before the mob is dead. Mobs having higher health is not annoying RNG evasion. I like that approach.

TLDR: Evasion is annoying. People are going to complain. There are other ways to achieve the same goal. Better ways.

Evasion is annoying, but there is a place for it as long as it is selectively applied, so that players can plan and accommodate it. It is just another tool to add variety to the game. (Damage Reflect from manticores is a decent example of selected use).
By the way, my maximum run of consecutively missed attacks (caused by mob evasion) in FR is 7 - and I was using a +12 Accuracy belt.

Build types:
Players will continue to adapt builds as the game evolves (next nerf will probably be to stun builds).
Personally, I carry 3 or 4 full gear sets most of the time and change them out to suit the mob type or group composition.

I have moved away from pure 'nuke' builds (e.g. Fire /Priest, Hammer /Ment, Archery /Ment) and started using x /Druid in groups as most players currently focus on damage only builds and it adds greater team value.

I avoid the immunity /'I WIN' button staff builds as I find them unsatisfying as they are too linear /constrictive for my taste.

My favourite for group play remains the Unarmed /Psychology Triple stun build - damage output of a stun-locked mob is nearly zero.

The point of the above is that:
The game evolves so players need to adapt to Citan's vision
Most combos and builds are viable - let's hope they remain so
Evasion isn't a game breaker
Sharing and discussing, whilst respecting different opinions, is highly desirable and should be encouraged

Ok, I made another wall of text of post, but relaized I'm basicly repeating what I, and other people already said. So this will be (probbaly) my final post in this threat.

@Roekai
So, going all the way back to orginal post, you made 2 statments/propositions - introducing global evasion as a way to extend combat, and making hardcore mode mandatory.

1)In my opinion, Hardocre mode should always remain as option. Not everyone want challenge, some people want more relaxed gameplay. Hoever, some kind of reward for Hardocre palyers would be welcome - for example, higher drop chance of better gear or rare items.

2) Evasion. In my opinion, evasion, as it currently works, shouldn't be applied globally. It's random nature would affect burst builds more than any other, and coudl make some skills that have fewer damge optiosn less viable. On top of that, it would lead to frustration, since missing.

If evasion would be changed to only prevent damge, and not break combos/buffs, it would still be frustrating, and would only enchance one of its main problems - fact it would affect burst oriented builds more than others.

Problem with evasion, as randomly occuring total dmage mitigation, is that it will eitehr be so small that it will be barley noticable, and thus havign little no impact on gameplay, or beign high enough to have significant impact on gameplay, and they you'll need soem way to counter it, or game will be unplayable. It's aslo hard to balance, as even small change can move it between 'mildly annoying' and 'game-breaking'.

And it always will be frustrating.

In order to extend duration of combat in healthy way, I belive number adjustmnets are the way to go. Making mobs toughter and/or reducign player damge is much healthier approach, that will affect every type of builds the same way (or at least difference be less than in case of evasion). At the same time, I strongly belive that defensive optiosn for players should be improved too, and/or monster damage should go down.

Lastly, I honestly can't understand why you are so frustrated by burst builds. By you own words, you play only sowrd/unarmed tanky build. Why would you care what other peopel play?

A lot of your suggestions seems to come from assuption that every skill combination has the same tools that sword and unarmed, which is not true.

Only random defensive mechanic that, in my opion, could be introduced globally, and don't be extremally frustrating, would be partial damage reduction, as I mentioned in one of my replays.

Lastly, i would liek to thank you for startign this post. Even though we disagree on the subject, I belive such discussion was needed. Hopefully, it will give Citan some ideas on how to bance game in the future.

Cheers.

cheers mate