Bowyer

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Originally Posted by Easylivin

Bowyer is a suggested new craft skill that would allow players to craft bows. From Wikipedia: "A bowyer is someone who makes bows."

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I know what the word bowyer means. However, you didn't state in your initial post that you intended it to be the only way to craft bows in game.

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Originally Posted by Easylivin

To be good at bowyer skill you need to understand the archery and things.

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50 in four skills (two of which are animal anatomies) is excessive for crafting a weapon.

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Originally Posted by Easylivin

If you are on a quest to reduce the amount of yellow gear please take it out of this thread, i'm not interested in talking about yellow gear drop rates or crafted yellow gear rates.

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I wrote a longer post explaining yet again why your system would result in a net increase in yellow gear, but screw it.

The above line says it all. You're not interested in constructive feedback. You only want to hear what interests you.

Your suggested system is deeply flawed. End of feedback.

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Originally Posted by Eachna

I know what the word bowyer means. However, you didn't state in your initial post that you intended it to be the only way to craft bows in game.



50 in four skills (two of which are animal anatomies) is excessive for crafting a weapon.

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Nice feedback. I think its needed.

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I wrote a longer post explaining yet again why your system would result in a net increase in yellow gear, but screw it.

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You are wrong. And I asked that we keep the yellow gear out. I'm not discussing drop or craft rates for yellow gear.

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The above line says it all. You're not interested in constructive feedback. You only want to hear what interests you.

Your suggested system is deeply flawed. End of feedback.

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You lack understanding in what I am suggesting, didn't ask for clarification before making assumptions, and now have shat in my thread.

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Originally Posted by Easylivin

You are wrong. And I asked that we keep the yellow gear out. I'm not discussing drop or craft rates for yellow gear.

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No, you're wrong. That's very mature and adult of both of us, isn't it? Does it somehow make you feel better?

You're not "discussing" anything. You're just telling me I'm wrong, you don't want to listen, and I don't understand the meaning of basic English words. I've been raised believing that sort of behavior is a temper tantrum, not a critical discussion in systems design.

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Originally Posted by Easylivin

You lack understanding in what I am suggesting, didn't ask for clarification before making assumptions, and now have shat in my thread.

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Saying there's no point in continuing a discussion isn't shitting on your thread.

You're sulking because I pointed out very large holes in your suggestion and you've decided I'm picking on you as a person.

Citan won't implement exactly what you want and I can point out the reasons why and none of those reasons are that he's one of a team of three who are over-worked building a MMO.

I do think there was the seed of a good idea in the original post, and I also think with just a little tweaking it can be adjusted to fit very well into the game systems. You don't need me to participate in this discussion to do that.

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Originally Posted by Eachna

You're sulking because I pointed out very large holes in your suggestion

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Lets go through this. My goal is to make a lvl 50 bow.

For me to continue you need to understand the process I'm suggesting. To simplify the process assume you have all of the materials and skills required to make lvl 100 bow based on my suggestion. Also assume that you have executed the following recipe:

Carve Longbow Core

No RNGs were executed, this recipe produces a successful result every time.

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Now for the RNG. To make this simple, and because I have no knowledge of the rates of different levels of gear, I will roll a single 6 sided dice(die) and assume the following:

1 is a failure
2-5 is "green gear"
6 is "yellow"

I will also assume that 3 failures is a broken bow. This is the durability point that I mentioned.


Here we go!


With those assumptions above I go to this site http://roll-dice-online.com/ and roll once. Outcome is 5.

My execution of Longbow Tillering 1 results in a green bow level 10 req.

Now I repeat.

With those assumptions above I go to this site http://roll-dice-online.com/ and roll once. Outcome is 3.

My execution of Longbow Tillering 2 results in a green bow level 20 req.

Now I repeat.

With those assumptions I go to this site http://roll-dice-online.com/ and roll once. Outcome is 2.

My execution of Longbow Tillering 3 results in a green bow level 30 req.

Now I repeat.

With those assumptions I go to this site http://roll-dice-online.com/ and roll once. Outcome is 4.

My execution of Longbow Tillering 4 results in a green bow level 40 req.

Now I repeat.

With those assumptions I go to this site http://roll-dice-online.com/ and roll once. Outcome is 3.

My execution of Longbow Tillering 5 results in a green bow level 50 req.

I'm done. I have my level 50 green bow.



Using that same site I rolled 5 dice, 10 times to simulate the above steps 10 different times.

4 - 6 - 2 - 1 - 3 (Avg: 3.2) Result: green level 40 bow

4 - 3 - 6 - 4 - 6 (Avg: 4.6) Result: yellow level 50 bow

1 - 3 - 5 - 4 - 3 (Avg: 3.2) Result: green level 40 bow

2 - 6 - 4 - 5 - 1 (Avg: 3.6) Result: green level 40 bow

6 - 5 - 3 - 5 - 5 (Avg: 4.8) Result: green level 50 bow

3 - 1 - 5 - 3 - 3 (Avg: 3.0) Result: green level 40 bow

3 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 6 (Avg: 3.0) Result: green level 40 bow

4 - 5 - 5 - 2 - 3 (Avg: 3.8) Result: green level 50 bow

6 - 2 - 5 - 4 - 2 (Avg: 3.8) Result: green level 50 bow

1 - 4 - 5 - 4 - 2 (Avg: 3.2) Result: green level 40 bow


I'm not saying that the rates I gave are the true rates of the game nor do I want to discuss the rates or am I suggesting rates. My point is that tillering is an attempt to get a perfect bow but it doesn't always happen.

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For "fun" I will try to make a lvl 100 bow.

2 - 5 - 2 - 5 - 2 - 6 - 6 - 2 - 2 - 3 (Avg: 3.5) Result: green level 100 bow

1 - 4 - 4 - 2 - 5 - 1 - 4 - 6 - 3 - 6 (Avg: 3.6) Result: yellow level 80 bow
Roll again: 6 - 3 (Avg: 4.5) Result: green level 100 bow

6 - 4 - 4 - 6 - 3 - 4 - 1 - 4 - 6 - 2 (Avg: 4.0) Result: green level 90 bow
Roll again: 2 (Avg: 2.0) Result: green level 100 bow

5 - 1 - 1 - 6 - 2 - 1 - 5 - 6 - 6 - 3 (Avg: 3.6) Result: broken

3 - 4 - 5 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 4 - 4 - 3 (Avg: 3.3) Result: green level 90 bow
Roll again: 3 (Avg: 3.0) Result: green level 100 bow

3 - 3 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 1 - 3 - 3 - 5 (Avg: 3.2) Result: green level 90 bow
Roll again: 4 (Avg: 4.0) Result: green level 100 bow

5 - 2 - 3 - 6 - 5 - 6 - 4 - 4 - 6 - 5 (Avg: 4.6) Result: green level 100 bow

3 - 4 - 6 - 6 - 3 - 2 - 5 - 4 - 5 - 6 (Avg: 4.4) Result: yellow level 100 bow

1 - 4 - 6 - 4 - 6 - 2 - 6 - 4 - 3 - 4 (Avg: 4.0) Result: green level 90 bow
Roll again: 3 (Avg: 3.0) Result: green level 100 bow

6 - 3 - 4 - 2 - 5 - 2 - 2 - 5 - 3 - 2 (Avg: 3.4) Result: green level 100 bow

8 level 100 green bows
1 level 100 yellow bow
1 broken bow

I hope this clears things up.

After making a few arrows yesterday I have some feedback for myself. It is more in line with the current crafting structure to use different woods for different levels of "bow cores"

For example, oak would be used to make 10, & 20 req bows. Maple 30,40. Cedar 50,60. Spruce 70,80.

This means additional carpentry recipes

Carve Longbow Core - 1 perfect long wood + 2 skill gems => longbow core
Carve Composite Bow Limbs - 2 perfect wood => composite bow limbs
Carve Composite Bow Core - rough composite bow core + 2 skill gems=> composite bow core


to(adding oak everywhere...):

Carve Oak Longbow Core - 1 perfect long oak wood + 2 skill gems => oak longbow core
Carve Oak Composite Bow Limbs - 2 perfect oak wood => oak composite bow limbs
Carve Oak Composite Bow Core - rough oak composite bow core + 2 skill gems=> oak composite bow core

The tillering process is still involved but only applied twice per bow unless there is a failure. Using different types of wood will give more control to the devs, which i assume is the purpose of the different wood types. It enables the addition of unique woods that result in unique bows, for example wood from a special tree/mob/thing will create a special bow.

It does kinda break the idea that a bow can level with your character, maybe special woods would enable this in the future. But even in real life one would move on from a plastic toy bow to a wood bow and beyond once their skills have improved.

Version 2.0

Changes:

• Removed some steps/recipes
• Changed recipe mats
• Added wood types, <wood>
• More in line with PG verbiage

A bowyer is someone who makes bows. This is a suggestion for how the bowyer skill could work. Examples are given for the process of crafting the 2 suggested types of bows.

Bowyer requirements: Archery 50, Carpentry 50, Ruminant Anatomy 50, Fish and Snail Anatomy 50

Recipes:
Example Recipe:
Name - required items => results in

Bowyer:

• Longbow String - 2 coarse cotton yarn => longbow string
• Composite Bow String - coarse cotton yarn => composite bow string
• Carve Horn - 2 large horns => carved horns
• <wood> Composite Bow Blank - 2 perfect <wood> wood, glue, 2 carved horns, 2 sinews => <wood> composite bow blank
• Longbow Tillering* - <wood> longbow core + longbow string OR CRAFTED <wood> Longbow =RNG=> <wood> Longbow
• Composite Bow Tillering* - composite <wood> bow core + composite bow string OR CRAFTED <wood> Composite Bow =RNG=> <wood> Composite Bow

*chance to change the quality of the bow, if successful the bow is created and/or level reqs go up and/or quality changes. A bow can be successfully tillered a max of 2 times. If tillering fails the bow must be tillered again before use. The string is not used up on failure

Carpentry:

• Carve <wood> Longbow Core - 1 perfect long <wood> wood + 2 skill gems => <wood> longbow core
• Carve <wood> Composite Bow Core - <wood> composite bow stave + 2 skill gems=> <wood> composite bow core

Items:

• perfect long oak wood
• perfect long maple wood
• perfect long cedar wood
• perfect long spruce wood
• oak composite bow blank
• maple composite bow blank
• cedar composite bow blank
• spruce composite bow blank
• composite bow core
• longbow core
• carved horns
• longbow string
• composite bow string

Examples with Numbers:

RNG will be http://roll-dice-online.com/
1 is failure
2-5 is green
6 is yellow

All materials are available and minimum skill levels reached.

Goal is to make a level 60 Quality Longbow

Execute the following recipes:
Longbow String
Carve Cedar Longbow Core

Now for the RNG to do it's thing, execute the following recipes with RNG:

Longbow Tillering - http://roll-dice-online.com/ - rolled a 1
Longbow Tillering - http://roll-dice-online.com/ - rolled a 1
Longbow Tillering - http://roll-dice-online.com/ - rolled a 5
Longbow Tillering - http://roll-dice-online.com/ - rolled a 6

Result is a level 60 (Yellow) Quality Long Bow



Goal is to make a level 40 Decent Composite Bow

Execute the following recipes:

Composite Bow String
Carve Horn
Maple Composite Bow Blank
Carve Composite Maple Bow Core


Now for the RNG to do it's thing, execute the following recipes with RNG:

Composite Bow Tillering - http://roll-dice-online.com/ - rolled a 2
Composite Bow Tillering - http://roll-dice-online.com/ - rolled a 2

Result is a level 40 (Green) Decent Composite Bow

The idea is cool, but I don't see it working as a combination of the mechanism for ALL bows in the game AND requiring 4 Skills to be 50, especially considering no one could probably even level an Archer to 50 without a Bow :P
I'd suggest moving the restrictions down (something like 25 Archery and 25 Carpentry makes sense from the hip for me), then finding a way of leveling as a Bowyer and therefore make increasingly better Bow Parts/Bows with leveling the Bowyer Skill (and lower/remove RNG).

Let's keep the conversation(s) amicable and the criticism(s) constructive.

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Originally Posted by Yertle

The idea is cool, but I don't see it working as a combination of the mechanism for ALL bows in the game

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This is for crafted bows only. Make sure to read version 2 update

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AND requiring 4 Skills to be 50, especially considering no one could probably even level an Archer to 50 without a Bow :P
I'd suggest moving the restrictions down (something like 25 Archery and 25 Carpentry makes sense from the hip for me),

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I get that 50 is high, I don't even have 50 ruminant/fish anatomy. My thinking is that the skill reqs need to be "high" to get bowyer skill because making a bow is a complicated process. Level 25 would be an ok to start too but I think it needs to be similar to BC. By that I mean you don't get level 25 for the 3 skills and you are set for all bowyer abilities. With BC you have to keep leveling the other skills to get higher level BC abilities. If it was like BC then starting lower to get bowyer would be fine.

Of course if its too complicated to do this removing the reqs completely would put there along with the other crafting skills.

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then finding a way of leveling as a Bowyer and therefore make increasingly better Bow Parts/Bows with leveling the Bowyer Skill (and lower/remove RNG).

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Just like other crafting skills a bowyer would execute recipes to get xp. I'm not sure I understand.:confused:

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Originally Posted by Easylivin

This is for crafted bows only. Make sure to read version 2 update

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Ahhh, gotchya. I didn't get that with the update.