Damage Calculation Formula & Why Deadlier Weapons are so Strong

Ok, instead of making another post or something I'll just edit this post instead. I haven't tested EVERYTHING or anything crazy, but as far as I can tell this seems to be the new formula. I might be inaccurate however with some certain modifiers or conditional flat damage.

(((Base damage + Flat damage) * X% damage with attacks + (Base damage* Base multiplier - Base damage)) +Simple Damage)* X% Damage type buff * X% Vulnerability debuff + Conditional Flat damage * X% More damage debuff

So here are the things that have changed since the first post I made.

X% damage with attacks
This now includes anything that increases the damage of your skills by a %. Including what used to be "Conditional multipliers". This also includes Ferocity Juice for some weird reason. Some things (Like the aforementioned Ferocity Juice) in this category will cause your thumbnails to inaccurately predict damage, so keep that in mind.

Simple Damage
This is from the new version of the "Dangerous Enchantment" blacksmithing recipe. Unlike advertised, it is in fact affected by some multipliers.

X% Damage buff
Any buffs to damage types now seem to stack as one single multiplier, rather than as multiple multipliers. I am not sure if this applies to non-damage type bonuses yet (Ex. Pain Bubble's ranged attack buff).

So as an example, here is the old hammer formula I used earlier before the last two patches(With Ferocity Juice included)
((433 + 578) * 1.98 + (433* 1.85 - 433)) *1.15*1.07*1.10 *1.18 *1.18 *1.63 *1.63 *1.18 *1.25 = 17503

And here is the new hammer formula as of this patch:
((433 + 578) * 3.70+ (433* 1.85 - 433)) *1.22 *1.18 *1.25 =7393

And here is an example of the new hammer formula with a +300 weapon as an example:
(((433 + 578) * 3.70+ (433* 1.85 - 433))+300) *1.22 *1.18 *1.25 =7933

Pretty rough, I lost 10k damage from my main nuke! That's what happens when I use my own build as an example, maybe I should have used Werewolf instead.

You care about the game and the community.
Your honesty and dedication are appreciated.

Jesus.. Even with everything going a Giant Bat can "only" hit some 4k (provided the target lives for another 7s, otherwise it's 3236)...
Slightly jealous, but then again, I'm not much of a hammer fan so I'll survive :P.

Like I said before:

Quote:

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...+2 damage AFTER calculations were finished (so 1000 damage becomes 1002*), but that makes the "chance to destroy" too costly for too small of an increase...

* = this makes the recipe too risky because of such a small increase at the cost of losing the item entirely, becoming another stupid RNG game.

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This kind of "risk it all for tiny reward" is what I'd expect in F2P games.

After finally getting my first legendary weapon (with my combat skills instead of someone else's!) from Gazluk:

- I grind tons of money to prepare for grinding skills
- I grind Transmutation
- I grind Weapon Augmentation
- I grind 60-65+ weapon drops
- I grind prisms
- I grind phlogiston
- I grind math from the build planner to know which mods I want
- I grind Transmutation RNG (which I find acceptable)
- I wait a week if I didn't obtain the desired mods
- I wait a week if I didn't obtain the desired mods (again)

And the end result... a weapon with guaranteed results, earned through time and effort.

Or I can roll a 1/33 die and risk losing the thing entirely to RNG. It's dumb. Even if it's a choice, there's no alternative to make it "earned" like all I've done before. Like playing Mantid & Monsters, beating every enemy with due diligence and strategy, getting further than you've ever been... and then rolling snake eyes during a saving throw and still die and lose it all. It also sets a precedent.

Imagine in the future, more RNG recipes that will destroy your armor pieces, like Dangerous Shamanic Infusion or something. The end game meta revolves around who's more lucky.

Dead F2P games do stuff like this, then implement things like potions that change the 3% destroy chance to zero, effectively being P2W. Don't be like them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Uxtalzon

Like I said before:



This kind of "risk it all for tiny reward" is what I'd expect in F2P games.

After finally getting my first legendary weapon (with my combat skills instead of someone else's!) from Gazluk:

- I grind tons of money to prepare for grinding skills
- I grind Transmutation
- I grind Weapon Augmentation
- I grind 60-65+ weapon drops
- I grind prisms
- I grind phlogiston
- I grind math from the build planner to know which mods I want
- I grind Transmutation RNG (which I find acceptable)
- I wait a week if I didn't obtain the desired mods
- I wait a week if I didn't obtain the desired mods (again)

And the end result... a weapon with guaranteed results, earned through time and effort.

Or I can roll a 1/33 die and risk losing the thing entirely to RNG. It's dumb. Even if it's a choice, there's no alternative to make it "earned" like all I've done before. Like playing Mantid & Monsters, beating every enemy with due diligence and strategy, getting further than you've ever been... and then rolling snake eyes during a saving throw and still die and lose it all. It also sets a precedent.

Imagine in the future, more RNG recipes that will destroy your armor pieces, like Dangerous Shamanic Infusion or something. The end game meta revolves around who's more lucky.

Dead F2P games do stuff like this, then implement things like potions that change the 3% destroy chance to zero, effectively being P2W. Don't be like them.

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This. So much. This.

accidental double post :3.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yaffy

Ok, instead of making another post or something I'll just edit this post instead. I haven't tested EVERYTHING or anything crazy, but as far as I can tell this seems to be the new formula. I might be inaccurate however with some certain modifiers or conditional flat damage.

(((Base damage + Flat damage) * X% damage with attacks + (Base damage* Base multiplier - Base damage)) +Simple Damage)* X% Damage type buff * X% Vulnerability debuff + Conditional Flat damage * X% More damage debuff

So here are the things that have changed since the first post I made.

X% damage with attacks
This now includes anything that increases the damage of your skills by a %. Including what used to be "Conditional multipliers". This also includes Ferocity Juice for some weird reason. Some things (Like the aforementioned Ferocity Juice) in this category will cause your thumbnails to inaccurately predict damage, so keep that in mind.

Simple Damage
This is from the new version of the "Dangerous Enchantment" blacksmithing recipe. Unlike advertised, it is in fact affected by some multipliers.

X% Damage buff
Any buffs to damage types now seem to stack as one single multiplier, rather than as multiple multipliers. I am not sure if this applies to non-damage type bonuses yet (Ex. Pain Bubble's ranged attack buff).

So as an example, here is the old hammer formula I used earlier before the last two patches(With Ferocity Juice included)
((433 + 578) * 1.98 + (433* 1.85 - 433)) *1.15*1.07*1.10 *1.18 *1.18 *1.63 *1.63 *1.18 *1.25 = 17503

And here is the new hammer formula as of this patch:
((433 + 578) * 3.70+ (433* 1.85 - 433)) *1.22 *1.18 *1.25 =7393

And here is an example of the new hammer formula with a +300 weapon as an example:
(((433 + 578) * 3.70+ (433* 1.85 - 433))+300) *1.22 *1.18 *1.25 =7933

Pretty rough, I lost 10k damage from my main nuke! That's what happens when I use my own build as an example, maybe I should have used Werewolf instead.

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I'm king of thread necro these days, but hey, the forums aren't exactly bustling with activity.

Does anyone know if this is still accurate? I'm also somewhat curious how this formula changes for DoTs. It appears to be very similar, but one thing I haven't figured out yet is whether or not "direct flat damage" is added to the DoT damage as well. It seems like it is, which would be pretty neat, but I haven't gotten to confirm it yet.

Why not go with smaller additive percentage buffs or simply flat damage modifiers for easier balance in the long run? Sure you'd have to tune down player health and monster health to fit accordingly but wouldn't that remove the chances of these insanely high spikes in damage that are almost exponential?

Why not also have mods that instead of just increase damage of abilities do interesting things or alter the way the spell works entirely? That could create for unique and interesting gameplay. I'm not talking about just increasing a player's run speed when you use the ability... that's not exactly the most creative thing haha but it is nice and simple.

Games start to become a job when they get very complicated that you need outside calculators or prolonged periods of theory crafting and mathematical equations to have fun with them... i guess I'm just a simple kind of guy and I prefer my games to be fun and not work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delfofthebla

I'm king of thread necro these days, but hey, the forums aren't exactly bustling with activity.

Does anyone know if this is still accurate? I'm also somewhat curious how this formula changes for DoTs. It appears to be very similar, but one thing I haven't figured out yet is whether or not "direct flat damage" is added to the DoT damage as well. It seems like it is, which would be pretty neat, but I haven't gotten to confirm it yet.

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It seems to be accurate, I don't remember any changes to dmg formula since this post was made.

'Direct dmage' refers to any damge made directly by your attack. DoT's and Thorns effects (like Shiled's Fire Shield) are considered indirect damage.

Lets take Werewolf ability Sanguine Fangs as example. It deals crushing damage on hit (which is direct damge) and applies DoT that deals Trauma damage(which is indirect damage). Crushign portion will be increased by following effect:
-Werewolf base dmage increase
-Crushing dmage increase
-Any mod increasing Sanguine Fang's dmage specyfically
-general/crushing direct damge increases

Trauma Dot on the other hand will be increased by:
-general/indirect Trauma damage bonuses
-general indirect Trauma dmage bonuses.

As you can see, Dot's in genral have less damage than diret skills, but most of the time they bypass armor.

The damage formula at this point has been changed to be simpler (A bit after this thread the damage formula went through many changes over the course of several patches). I haven't checked if it was changed yet again as of this patch but I would assume it hasn't since it's been like this for a while now.

The current basic damage formula (Assuming a monster has no resistances) is:
(Base damage + Flat damage) *Multipliers +(base damage * (base multiplier - 1))

So any sort of non base-multiplier to damage now stacks as a single number. For example, if you have two mods that give +30% damage to a fire skill, and 20% bonus fire damage, then it would all combine into a single 80% boost to damage. This means that damage stacking isn't as prominent now.

Combined with this, another change to the damage formula is that if a mob is weak to a damage type, it's multiplied AFTER normal multipliers, but before base multipliers. So for example, if you did the above on a monster with 50% weakness to fire, then it would boost your damage by 80% and then 50% (Resulting in a 170% boost). However, if the mob is strong against fire then it will be applied at the end of the formula, so if the monster had 50% resistance instead then your damage would be cut in half after all other boosts, or if they have 100% resistance then they would take 0 damage.

With that in mind, a formula that takes into account monster resists would look like this:
((Base damage + Flat damage) *Multipliers *Target's elemental weakness +(base damage * (base multiplier - 1))) * Target's elemental resistance

Or if you want to split the two
For monsters weak to the attack's element:
(Base damage + Flat damage) *Multipliers *Target's elemental weakness +(base damage * (base multiplier - 1))
For monsters strong to the attack's element:
((Base damage + Flat damage) *Multipliers +(base damage * (base multiplier - 1))) * Target's elemental resistance

One major change related to the damage formula is that skills that cause your target to become weaker to a damage type actually affect the target's resistances now. For example, if you have a mob with 100% poison resistance (Aka. Immunity) and you use a skill that lowers their resistance by 15%, then their immunity will become 85% damage resistance so you can now damage the mob. Previously this would just multiply your poison damage against the target by 15% and then the mob's immunity would reduce it to 0 damage. However some skills haven't been updated to work this way yet to my knowledge, for example Calefaction works the old way while Bruising Blow works the new way. I don't think there's any reason for this aside from them not being updated yet and it's not intentional.

DoT damage is fairly straight forward. It only gets affected by flat bonuses (That don't specify direct only) or elemental bonuses. So for example if you have a mod which boosts fire breath damage by 30%, it will ONLY boost the initial damage from fire breath, not the DoT portion. However if you have something that boosts overall fire damage (Ex. +5 Fire damage, +5% fire damage, +5% indirect damage) then that will affect each tick of the dot separately. If the property specifies direct damage, then it will not affect the DoT (As all DoT effects are indirect, not direct), so +5 direct fire damage would not apply to a DoT.

So for example a DoT damage formula would look like this:
(Damage per tick + Flat damage) * Multipliers * Target's elemental weakness * Target's elemental resistance * Number of ticks

So if you had a skill that did 5 poison damage per tick for 6 ticks, with +10 poison damage and a +75% boost to poison damage on a monster 50% weak to poison, then it would look like this:
(5 + 10) *1.75 * 1.5 * 1 * 6 = 236.25 (Yes the game keeps track of the .25)

And finally just as a disclaimer and an apology, this is just my knowledge of how the damage formula was about a patch ago. I haven't done any testing this patch, so I apologize if my information is out of date already (Which is totally possible because the developers are always changing stuff about the game and aren't always transparent about it). If you want to create a build based on the above formula I gave, I would highly suggest that you try to do some testing to confirm if it's still true or not.