Bowyer

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A bowyer is someone who makes bows.


Some key points/ideas/concepts

• A bow can get better with additional tillering
• A level 1 archer could have a bow made for them, and have it tillered as they level, the bow would “level” too
• A green bow can become yellow(or yellow become green) by Un-Stringing and repeating tiller step.

Skills:
Bowyer: req Archery 50, Carpentry 50, Ruminant Anatomy 50, Fish and Snail Anatomy 50

Recipes
Bowyer:

• String Longbow 1-10 - req longbow core + longbow string => results in usable strung bow
• String Composite Bow 1-10 - req composite bow core + composite bow string => results in usable strung bow
• Un-String Longbow 1-10 - removes string from bow => results in longbow core(can be tillered or restrung)
• Un-String Composite Bow 1-10 - removes string from bow => results in composite bow core(can be tillered or restrung)
• Carve Horn - 2 large horns => results in carved horns
• Rough Composite Bow Core - 2 short bow limbs, glue, 2 carved horns, 2 sinews => rough composite bow core
• Longbow String - long sinew must be near stove => longbow string
• Composite Bow String - sinew must be near stove => composite bow string
• Longbow Tillering 1-10 - requires longbow core =RNG=> (chance to change the quality of the bow, if successful the level reqs go up) longbow core, if failed, reduces durability % must be tillered before strung
• Composite Bow Tillering 1-10 - requires composite bow core =RNG=> (chance to change the quality of the bow, if successful the level reqs go up) longbow core, if failed, reduces durability % must be tillered before strung

Carpentry:

• Carve Longbow Core - 1 perfect long wood + 2 skill gems => longbow core
• Carve Composite Bow Limbs - 2 perfect wood => composite bow limbs
• Carve Composite Bow Core - rough composite bow core + 2 skill gems=> composite bow core

Items:

• perfect long wood
• composite bow limbs
• rough composite bow core
• composite bow core
• longbow core
• carved horns
• long sinew
• longbow string
• composite bow string

Example with numbers: http://forum.projectgorgon.com/showt...ull=1#post2418

Some use cases

Longbow(warbow):
Steps:

• Carve Longbow Core
• Longbow Tillering 1
• String Longbow 1 (Archery req 1-10)
• Un-String Longbow 1
• Longbow Tillering 2
• String Longbow 2 (Archery req 11-20)
• Un-String Longbow 2
• Longbow Tillering 3
• String Longbow 3 (Archery req 21-30)
• Un-String Longbow 3
• Longbow Tillering 4
• String Longbow 4 (Archery req 31-40)
• Un-String Longbow 4
• Longbow Tillering 5
• String Longbow 5 (Archery req 41-50)
• Un-String Longbow 5
• Longbow Tillering 6
• String Longbow 6 (Archery req 51-60)
• Un-String Longbow 6
• Longbow Tillering 7
• String Longbow 7 (Archery req 61-70)
• Un-String Longbow 7
• Longbow Tillering 8
• String Longbow 8 (Archery req 71-80)
• Un-String Longbow 8
• Longbow Tillering 9
• String Longbow 9 (Archery req 81-90)
• Un-String Longbow 9
• Longbow Tillering 10
• String Longbow 10 (Archery req 91-100)
• Un-String Longbow 10

Composite bow(horn bow):
Steps:

• Carve Composite Bow Limbs
• Carve Horn
• Rough Composite Bow Core
• Carve Composite Bow Core
• Composite Bow Tillering 1
• String Composite Bow 1 (Archery req 1-10)
• Un-String Composite Bow 1
• Composite Bow Tillering 2
• String Composite Bow 2 (Archery req 11-20)
• Un-String Composite Bow 2
• Composite Bow Tillering 3
• String Composite Bow (Archery req 21-30)
• Un-String Composite Bow 3
• Composite Bow Tillering 4
• String Composite Bow (Archery req 31-40)
• Un-String Composite Bow 4
• Composite Bow Tillering 5
• String Composite Bow (Archery req 41-50)
• Un-String Composite Bow 5
• Composite Bow Tillering 6
• String Composite Bow (Archery req 51-60)
• Un-String Composite Bow 6
• Composite Bow Tillering 7
• String Composite Bow (Archery req 61-70)
• Un-String Composite Bow 7
• Composite Bow Tillering 8
• String Composite Bow (Archery req 71-80)
• Un-String Composite Bow 8
• Composite Bow Tillering 9
• String Composite Bow (Archery req 81-90)
• Un-String Composite Bow 9
• Composite Bow Tillering 10
• String Composite Bow (Archery req 91-100)
• Un-String Composite Bow 10

Interesting concept, some aspect of this might be good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LaRaj

Interesting concept, some aspect of this might be good.

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Can you expand on that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Easylivin

Some key points/ideas/concepts

• A bow can get better with additional tillering
• A level 1 archer could have a bow made for them, and have it tillered as they level, the bow would “level” too
• A green bow can become yellow(or yellow become green) by Un-Stringing and repeating tiller step.

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I love the idea of being able to craft bows (and other weapons besides staves/clubs).

I do not like the suggestion that there be a simple mechanic to upgrade items to better colors. I would like to see yellow gear being harder to get, not easier.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eachna

I love the idea of being able to craft bows (and other weapons besides staves/clubs).

I do not like the suggestion that there be a simple mechanic to upgrade items to better colors. I would like to see yellow gear being harder to get, not easier.

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3rd bullet point mentions

Quote:

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A green bow can become yellow(or yellow become green)

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So a bow could be yellow level 10 req., get tillered become green level 20 req.

It might not have been clear but with each tillering attempt the RNG gets rolled. So the result could be failed,white,green,blue,pink,red,yellow.

Quote:

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Longbow Tillering 1-10 - requires longbow core =RNG=> (increases the quality of the bow) longbow core, if failed, reduces durability % must be tillered before strung

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With enough failed attempts the bow should be destroyed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Easylivin

3rd bullet point mentions

So a bow could be yellow level 10 req., get tillered become green level 20 req.

It might not have been clear but with each tillering attempt the RNG gets rolled. So the result could be failed,white,green,blue,pink,red,yellow.

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Or it could start as magenta level 10, get tillered, and become yellow level 20. I think we need less yellow gear in game. If you want a level-appropriate yellow bow just haunt the used tabs of vendors. Grab any one. Reroll all the mod slots. Eventually you'll have your perfect bow. When you're 10 levels higher, repeat.

The crafting and loot systems in the game are designed around supplying multiple gear sets and players replacing all those sets as they level. It's built around quantity, not quality. There's no room for sentiment and attachment and it would break the economy to have gear level with us.

I like the theoretical *idea* of leveling gear with my toon. I understand that it won't work in this game. And I'm very suspicious of any suggestions that would result in an item that's worse quality than yellow or magenta becoming yellow or magenta after processing.
I'm only one person though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eachna

Or it could start as magenta level 10, get tillered, and become yellow level 20. I think we need less yellow gear in game. If you want a level-appropriate yellow bow just haunt the used tabs of vendors. Grab any one. Reroll all the mod slots.

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The RNG determines if an item is yellow or not. I'm not sure what to tell you about having less yellow gear, maybe talk to citan about changing the RNG.

Are you suggesting we remove crafting? Looting or checking vendors is always an option.

Quote:

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Eventually you'll have your perfect bow. When you're 10 levels higher, repeat.

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You are missing the potential to fail. You could get a yellow but you could also fail. If you failed X times then the bow should be destroyed or unable to be tillered. This is not an issue.

Quote:

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The crafting and loot systems in the game are designed around supplying multiple gear sets and players replacing all those sets as they level. It's built around quantity, not quality. There's no room for sentiment and attachment and it would break the economy to have gear level with us.

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The tillering process could fail and destroy the bow. It appears I wasn't clear in that process or step. The result of tillering isn't always good, tillering can result in the bow being destroyed or lower quality, just like in real life.

http://i.imgur.com/biJISc7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/uggwr9v.jpg

Here is some reading material on tillering if the process isn't clear.

Quote:

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I like the theoretical *idea* of leveling gear with my toon. I understand that it won't work in this game. And I'm very suspicious of any suggestions that would result in an item that's worse quality than yellow or magenta becoming yellow or magenta after processing.
I'm only one person though.

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It goes both ways. It can become yellow or it could become white OR even destroyed. There is a risk involved it isn't all puppies and kittens.

Also realize that a lvl 100 bow starts at lvl 0. It would need to be tillered 10 times successful lvl 100 bow.

Since an archer literally can't be without a weapon for their skill to work, it sorta makes sense for them to be attached to their item.

If you had to choose whether to go up in level (and down in grade) vs up in quality... That's kind of a cool mechanic. Kinda like how Transmuters can move things around.

I would like to see more crafters have access to that mechanic. Less random random gear, since it gets pretty... Random.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Easylivin

Are you suggesting we remove crafting? Looting or checking vendors is always an option.

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I don't think it's constructive to have a bowyer to change the color/level of gear in conjuction with whatever color it gets on being generated into the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Easylivin

The tillering process could fail and destroy the bow. It appears I wasn't clear in that process or step. The result of tillering isn't always good, tillering can result in the bow being destroyed or lower quality, just like in real life.

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What isn't clear to me is how a Bowyer fits into bow production.

Are you suggesting this as a unique crafting skill and a Bowyer would make all crafted bows in game?

Are you suggesting it as a weaponsmith (or carpentry) specialization that could make bows but would primarily be improving existing bows and crafted bows would also be made by other crafters?

I read it as the second option because I didn't see a reason to gate bowyers behind four level 50 skills (other than limiting how many people can make more yellow gear).

Here's a longer explanation of some of the problems I see (regardless of your intentions with Bowyer):
In the future, people will be crafting bows. Magical bows will primarily be crafted by combining materials with two gems to 'set' the skills. The RNG will spit these out as random colors. People will also be looting bows. These looted bows would come in all colors.

These two principles are what the economy is based on (looted gear and colored crafted gear made from gems + raw materials). *ANY* changes to this have to be examined very carefully as to how they'd effect the economy.

By using tillering, some percentage of those bows which were not already yellow would be further refined to be yellow. The rest tillered would be broken/downgraded/neutral. The tillering process you suggest is cheaper (in raw materials) than simply crafting a new bow which would encourage people to tiller bows (and discard the ones that were sub-optimal). There's no way to "force" this system to only be used by sentimental people who want to keep the same bow "for ever" and there's no way to "stop" bow crafters (or people buying bows from buy used tabs) to run it on bows intending to get better colors.

There are no checks or limits in place to make sure people didn't simply use tillering as "another" chance to get a yellow (or magenta) bow. The number of players willing to keep sub-optimal bows for sentimental reasons would likely be lower than the number of people chasing the best colors/numbers and the net result would be more yellow bows.

I think looking at the game we can see what missing systems will look like later. Gear will have mods and enhancement points. Missing magical weapon types will likely be crafted by combining various materials with two gems. The game is designed to churn through gear.

I agree that it would be cool to have gear items that follow you through the game but I don't think it's likely to happen. I haven't found an indication *anywhere* that Citan is willing to entertain any systems where you keep something from 1-100 (or whatever the final level will be).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eachna

I don't think it's constructive to have a bowyer to change the color/level of gear in conjuction with whatever color it gets on being generated into the game.


What isn't clear to me is how a Bowyer fits into bow production.

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Bowyer is a suggested new craft skill that would allow players to craft bows. From Wikipedia: "A bowyer is someone who makes bows."

Quote:

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Are you suggesting this as a unique crafting skill and a Bowyer would make all crafted bows in game?

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yes

Quote:

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Are you suggesting it as a weaponsmith (or carpentry) specialization that could make bows but would primarily be improving existing bows and crafted bows would also be made by other crafters?

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craft bows, ATTEMPT to improve previously crafted bows

Quote:

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I read it as the second option because I didn't see a reason to gate bowyers behind four level 50 skills (other than limiting how many people can make more yellow gear).

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To be good at bowyer skill you need to understand the archery and things. If you are on a quest to reduce the amount of yellow gear please take it out of this thread, i'm not interested in talking about yellow gear drop rates or crafted yellow gear rates.

Quote:

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Here's a longer explanation of some of the problems I see (regardless of your intentions with Bowyer):
In the future, people will be crafting bows. Magical bows will primarily be crafted by combining materials with two gems to 'set' the skills. The RNG will spit these out as random colors.

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this is what i am talking about. that skill does not exist in game at this time. I am suggesting that skill.

Quote:

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By using tillering, some percentage of those bows which were not already yellow would be further refined to be yellow.

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you say WOULD but im saying and have been saying COULD. There is a difference. There is a CHANCE to improve the quality of the bow from some color to yellow, it is NOT guaranteed.

Quote:

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The rest tillered would be broken/downgraded/neutral. The tillering process you suggest is cheaper (in raw materials) than simply crafting a new bow which would encourage people to tiller bows (and discard the ones that were sub-optimal). There's no way to "force" this system to only be used by sentimental people who want to keep the same bow "for ever" and there's no way to "stop" bow crafters (or people buying bows from buy used tabs) to run it on bows intending to get better colors.

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There IS a way to stop them, its called the RNG.

Quote:

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There are no checks or limits in place to make sure people didn't simply use tillering as "another" chance to get a yellow (or magenta) bow. The number of players willing to keep sub-optimal bows for sentimental reasons would likely be lower than the number of people chasing the best colors/numbers and the net result would be more yellow bows.

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The goal of tillering is to make the best bow you can but you don't always get what you want. Maybe this will make it more clear. Tillering is the "craft a bow" recipe. One of the mats is that you have a crafted bow. When you hit the "Tiller" button it will execute the RNG, just as is done with crafting leather gear etc. I am suggesting adding an additional option to that RNG execute that is 100% failure and damage to the bow. This isn't an option in game now, currently you make an item no matter what.