Loot frequency and game style

[Rowina]

I have noticed that no matter how much i am trying to explain to people that this is not a solo game they mostly prefer to hunt alone (thats sad btw). of course it is soloable for the most part but its not a solo game. Almost all solo players are undergeared and underleveled. Add to that the changes brought about in the new Augmentation and transmutation skills and of course the fact its an alpha and the population is very thin it is almost impossible to do certain things.

Gaz keep is deserted for the most part and work on augmentation is very difficult if not impossible for the last 10 levels.

Is it possible to consider making armor and weapon drops on mobs outside dungeons/ non elite mobs more frequent?

I am hunting gaz now (also in the caves) but not in GK cause i cant solo it or hunt it in very small groups due to respawns and there are not enough high level players around who want to team up and all i get besides non gear loot is jewelry. Armor and weapons are almost not dropping not to mention good ones.

[INXS]

I find that also to be true, people on in guild but mention to go to GK or Lab, maybe hit manticores people busy doing their own things, hmm....

[Crissa]

I find it difficult to group even when I have people willing, because I have to stop and throw things overboard all the time. Then if I'm playing with someone who is searching for something else, we have to search through each other's pile of junk and if they think I won't share what they need, they'll skip out right quick.

[Rowina]

Short run solution would have to be more armor/weapon usable loot drops besides bosses/chests on all levels but In the long run I would like to see a way to make people group up. You are torally right about dumping stuff and going to hunt Crissa. Because everyone is doing everything they are all hamstering and hoarding everything they loot. (I guess most also dont realize that if you are hunting and killing elite mobs everyone gets their fair share of dropped junk)

I am not sure why game play changed so much and people dont want to group up. Maybe its something to do with the gameplay style of young people (being pretty old myself ;) ) I remember that in the 18 years that i play MMOs people always grouped up. I hope certain mmos (not naming not to create war) and the unfriendly gameplay there in the past few years didnt make people think we are all evil and hoarding or even that everyone turned into anti social online players

[Rowina]

I would like to see in the long run that people find good reason to group up and that there would be a way to make sure they can find others to group up with and also manage their inv and crafting/quest items better in order to join groups. I think a lot depends on a good game/guild board and information system (not only a motd of 256 chars) to leave messages/plan dungeon runs/ ask for group and help

[Niph]

It seems to me that getting good loot in GK is an excellent reason to group at that level. But we find ourselves in a (temporary) situation where the population is basically split in 3 categories:


High-level olders that have farmed GK ad-nauseum and are working on recent skill content, playing alts in the new low level content, whatever.
Intermediate players that managed to get to 70 with semi-decent gear and can do anything except GK (and therefore, don't do it).
New players.


This is of course a raw picture. But the number of intermediate players seems too thin to sustain teams in GK, and we must wait for new high-level content for them to group with full-geared veterans and become ones.

This said, if GK is doable with three players with your power, what's needed is a little bit of organisation, and advertising groups in advance. The "need to clear inventory" is no longer a problem if you know the day and time the event is happening.

[Erthiel]

I play mostly solo and I would love to have an opportunity to get some 70 lvl gear other than GK.

My biggest issue with group dungeons is that I have a macbook, which is not the best laptop for gaming without dedicated GPU. Going to a dungeon with a group of people who use AOE which have big sparkly effects just causes me to lag so much my game becomes unplayable. I totally understand that this is not the fault of the game and it has not been optimised yet. I don't think it should be a requirement for people to be playing in parties to get high lvl gear. Even if this is not a 'solo game' there are other ways of team playing and sharing (e.g. crafting for each other, group quests, poetry reading). It does not have to be hunting together in my opinion. So I support adding some higher lvl solo content or just increasing the drop of orc armor on surface :-) But as everything, we just have to wait and all of the issues will be solved in time.

[kazeandi]

Population doesn't support grouping. Was in random groups when I started, in the Crypts, and in the Goblin dungeon, but even those are pretty dead these days.

[Rowina]

I see between 30-60 people online on Euro hours who do not want to group even though they are asked and explained from the beginning as new players. they just dont want to group and i am not talking only about GK. I spent the last 4 months arranging groups for people almost against their will to help THEM gear up and level. I do not understand what that means really

[Niph]

You could add tools to the GUI to help grouping. You could put all the good stuff in dungeons so that grouping is beneficial. But, in the end, if players don't like it then they will keep playing solo. It's a population vs. game style problem, and trying to fix will only generate more post requests for easier soloing.


Is it possible to consider making armor and weapon drops on mobs outside dungeons/ non elite mobs more frequent?

See what I mean?

[Silvonis]

Just to reiterate what we've said previously, we have no plans on adjusting the game based on the alpha/beta population(s). As for the group vs soloing experience, we are designing Project: Gorgon with the goal of grouping in mind. That said, please feel free to continue your conversation(s).

[Citan]

While grouping should be the most efficient way to get gear, I want soloing to be viable at all levels and I agree that it's too slow to get gear while soloing at some level ranges. We'll be working on this in the future, though I'm not sure yet what form that will take.

(And again, please feel free to keep discussing.)

[INXS]

The difference between hunting with a group in a dungeon or hunting solo regarding great gear is the frequency i which you get good items. Solo hunting i've found some of the best pieces of gear and maybe yes i coud have spent time in GK and got alot of it but then again it could be non yellow stuff. It all comes down to your own personal goals, time when you want to complete the skills you are playing, some people take their time some picked new skills and just maxed them to 70 and need phat lewt right away. GK is the place for instant reward. I have one decent piece from GK only been there a handful of time, my best possessions are actually things i crafted myself better than anything i've found ingame in past 7 months.

[Tagamogi]

My best gear is also crafted, but since I've never done any of GK/labs/mants, that's probably non-surprising.

Throwing out an anecdotal data point here: I just ran through the No-Name (plant) cave in Gazluk wearing an eclectic mix of gear ranging from a level 40 purple ring to a couple purple crafted level 70 pieces. Total time about 35-40 minutes, including one death with extensive running back due to an unfortunate 4-mob clump when I wasn't paying enough attention.
Total gear loot:
Level 65: 5 items ( 2 orange necklaces, orange gloves, purple necklace, blue knife)
Level 60: 7 items ( purple beaker, orange necklace, orange knife, orange boots, blue pants, 2 blue chests)
Level 55: 1 blue necklace

Most of the gear was from the 4 chests in the cave, with 4 gear drops from assorted mobs I was killing.

That seems like perfectly nice and plentiful loot for the time spent to me? It's maybe not the most efficient place ever if you want level 61+ items for faster augmentation leveling but since half of my augmentation skills are still in the 50s, the drops are actually perfect for me. ( I haven't paid much attention to which cave drops what level gear in Gazluk, I picked the No-Name cave tonight primarily because I wanted to try out my new double-chance stun proc against the ghosts anyway. (The verdict there is that I love venomstrike stun. ))

[kazeandi]

30 players online really isn't a lot. You might get a team of 3 out of 100. People log in to do something for an hour after work, whereas setting everything up for a team, plus dungeon time itself, plus pain-in-the-butt mechanics like the epic fail of an inventory, make it just too much to bother.

I've stopped logging in recently myself, after many of my guildies went inactive. Playing something else, waiting for a promising patch. Might check out the new UI.

PG just isn't that great when you're solo all the time. Not anymore after 50, with all the artificial hardships, of which one is, as you already pointed out, gear progression.

Yeah, nope.

[Rowina]

While grouping should be the most efficient way to get gear, I want soloing to be viable at all levels and I agree that it's too slow to get gear while soloing at some level ranges. We'll be working on this in the future, though I'm not sure yet what form that will take.



Citan, is a better guild/group communication available in the new UI? i mean more like messages offline besides motd, looking for groups, locations of people (on and off if needed) etc and is it in this version? is it planned? I am curious :)

[Atis]

Grouping isn't easy with so much skills. Sure, when you are at level cap in 5+ skills you can just say "group to GK" but if all you have is 30lv sword, 20lv archery, 23lv fire, 15lv psychology, and your potential groupmates have just as random list, it takes too much time to figure out what can be a good place for all of you. Dungeons are designed a bit messy, simply saying "noob party to Goblin Dungeon up to West Chest" is not always clear. Some fancy stuff at key locations would help a bit. "A noob party in Goblin Dungeon, clearing from Red Pillar to Waterfall Tapestry." - not perfect but would work.

Add in a different inventory management behaviour and you have a group of ppl who need inventory breaks at different time. If I could just clear 2/3 of my pockets in 5 minutes and run with a group for next 3 hours without thinking about space, that would make grouping way easier.

[Silvonis]

Citan, is a better guild/group communication available in the new UI? i mean more like messages offline besides motd, looking for groups, locations of people (on and off if needed) etc and is it in this version? is it planned? I am curious :)

We will be sharing specifics as we move closer to releasing the first iteration of the new GUI, so please stay tuned to our social media outlets for GUI related news.

I will say that the new GUI has been completely redesigned and coded from the ground up. We did that in order to make it possible to have a wide degree of flexibility in adding new features and systems.

As I said, we will share more about it as move closer to it's launch but I would also preface that by saying that the first iteration won't necessarily have everything included from day one. The core functionality needs to be heavily tested and from there we can continue to compile and implement wish list features as we progress. That said, there will be improvements from the get go but it will be an ongoing piece of the development puzzle.

[Rowina]

I see. Thank you for your information Silvonis :)

[Feral]

Enjoyed reading this thread and now that I have a forum account I thought I'd reply. I prefer soloing for the most part. One of the things that keeps me trying to like this game: its FLEXIBILITY. While there are many key decisions I disagree with about this game, I really appreciate that soloing is viable, even at max lvl. If I can't get in/won't join a GK group I have the flexibility to craft my own gear of equal and/or better quality! While I agree that the drops outside of GK seems sparse and often under lvl 65:( it could be that yes, I am soloing and killing slower. Also I spend half the time freezing to death=)

Finally, for the solo player (which seems the majority in MMOs these days) the decision to rid the game of "bound" gear until you start tinkering means:

1. I may find gear I can use that someone else received from a dungeon run.

2. I willingly try out new gear, even with mods I might not use, to see if I like those mods better. If not, I can start transmuting.

[Daguin]

I benefited from group dungeon runs a lot from mid to high levels, especially in terms of gear. Labs->GK was an obvious progression. Now that my guild (and general) population has started to decline a bit I have gotten more interested in crafting. This means quite a bit of solo grinding as no one rightly wants to group up to farm consumables. I don't think either option is better, but I did find the cooperative play immediately rewarding. In the end I hope that active players will naturally group up into guilds, or just in-game friends to help each other, and that includes both receiving and giving assistance even when it is not 100% necessary. The grind could be alleviated--especially in quieter times--with more resource pooling, but I don't think mucking with loot mechanics in reaction to population is the answer.

[Vril]

While I enjoy grouping, there are a few reasons why I find it difficult in PG to do so.

1. My game play is often subject to frequent interruption, and as such I make a poor grouper much of the time. The devs could fix this by sending me a check for $5 mil USD so I wouldn't have other RL obligations.

2. With the current UI, grouping kind of feels like 'soloing in packs.' Targeting others isn't terribly easy, and agro management is challenging--in a group that runs a lot together this might be less of an issue.

3. I dislike group looting. Elites are great--I like that everyone gets a shot at some loots. But normal mobs are just a PITA; your normal group of 4ish will pull 6-8 and AoE them down, and then your left hunting for purple speckles trying to figure out which are yours. If you are a skinner/butcher then you are competing for with your own party. Perhaps a loot system that randomly or systematically distributed the loot would be better, I dunno.

For the above reasons, I solo a lot. I find that my xp/hour and loot/hour tends to be better soloing than with a group, and honestly, it's often just easier. That said, I would like to group more, especially when fighting elites.

$.02

(First post! Love this game, so good now, can't wait to see where it goes.)

[Feral]

While I enjoy grouping, there are a few reasons why I find it difficult in PG to do so.

1. My game play is often subject to frequent interruption, and as such I make a poor grouper much of the time. The devs could fix this by sending me a check for $5 mil USD so I wouldn't have other RL obligations.

2. With the current UI, grouping kind of feels like 'soloing in packs.' Targeting others isn't terribly easy, and agro management is challenging--in a group that runs a lot together this might be less of an issue.

3. I dislike group looting. Elites are great--I like that everyone gets a shot at some loots. But normal mobs are just a PITA; your normal group of 4ish will pull 6-8 and AoE them down, and then your left hunting for purple speckles trying to figure out which are yours. If you are a skinner/butcher then you are competing for with your own party. Perhaps a loot system that randomly or systematically distributed the loot would be better, I dunno.

For the above reasons, I solo a lot. I find that my xp/hour and loot/hour tends to be better soloing than with a group, and honestly, it's often just easier. That said, I would like to group more, especially when fighting elites.

$.02

(First post! Love this game, so good now, can't wait to see where it goes.)


Yay for first posts - today is my first day posting too. And I agree that in a group scrambling to skin and get gear is a competition I really don't like and it can create unnecessary conflict and bad feelings -- like standing by and watching someone continually botch skinning when you really need those skins AND can do it without botching=( I feel like there may be loot options already in game to change the style of looting, but I don't know.

[Esoteric]

I always see people running in and around dungeons/caves. Oftentimes, we'll all group up, sometimes, they're soloing.

[Daguin]

I feel like there may be loot options already in game to change the style of looting, but I don't know.

/loot free Everyone in your group will be able to loot every corpse.
/loot turns Your group will take turns getting permission to loot non-Elites.

Using the turns feature you can prevent some of the botching. It does get a little annoying in dense mob corpses though.

[drivendawn]

I am sure some one mentioned it but the game is in alpha with most people that come in trying it out and leaving wanting to come back when its finished. There is really only a dedicated 80 or so that have stuck around to play and test things and many of them love to solo. When the game launches we should have a few hundred on or more at prime time and more chances to group. Until then though just have fun in the random groups you can get together I suppose. :)

[Celedor]

I solo but would be interested in grouping. I did quite a bit in Everquest and Everquest2, and most grouping spots were easily reached (at least most of the ones I did) and I could find a replacement pretty easily if I had to leave. Then I tried WoW. The only need to group was for dungeons, and these were deep enough that I felt I could not be easily replaced midway through if needed. Perhaps I am misremembering WoW, but I am reluctant to group in any MMO now because I cannot guarantee I will be online for 4 hours.

Am I being unrealistic? How easy is to be in a group and be replaced if needed? Are dungeon crawls short enough that I don't need to commit 4 hours?

[Leodane]

I'm not experienced by any stretch, but the dungeons i have played so far have been bite sized. Crypt, mushrooms, and underhand are half an hour, tops, and that was soloing for me. Looking at some of the maps on the wiki, I can't imagine any of the dungeons taking too long with a group interested in moving instead of camping. Correct me if I'm wrong. To be clear, this is praise, not criticism...my days of 4-hour play sessions are sadly over.

[drivendawn]

I'm not experienced by any stretch, but the dungeons i have played so far have been bite sized. Crypt, mushrooms, and underhand are half an hour, tops, and that was soloing for me. Looking at some of the maps on the wiki, I can't imagine any of the dungeons taking too long with a group interested in moving instead of camping. Correct me if I'm wrong. To be clear, this is praise, not criticism...my days of 4-hour play sessions are sadly over.

Well, the group dungeons such as the Lab and Gazluk keep take more like an hour and a half or so. Also if I remember correctly Gazluk will have more lvls put in so who knows what future group dungeons will be like going forward.

[Crissa]

Sure, half an hour, if you don't loot anything.

[Leodane]

Sure, half an hour, if you don't loot anything.

Looting while solo doesn't take terribly long. Right click, two-three clicks, no thinking, done. Sort loot later, or take a minute if you're full up to drop junk. Mushrooms takes a bit longer if you're mining, but not much. I guess I should point out I'm using an AOE build, so that shaves some time off. I am happy to hear the upper-level dungeons take a bit longer, but not as long as, say, a 6-hour EQ Plane of Hate/Fear raid.