Words of Power (and a bit of venting)

[Arundel]

I wanted to explain the problem with the way words of power currently work and why it is not an acceptable mechanic. I also wanted to type out my concerns about communication with the devs regarding this and maybe vent a bit (maybe a lot). If you want to come into this thread to tell me "it's fine" or "you are burnt out" both are factually not true and you could save yourself the time by closing the thread now.

I am admittedly a very hardcore player. I have always played MMO's this way. I work full-time, have a family, but am very disciplined when it comes to gaming. I enjoy games more this way and have always found "breaking" builds or figuring things out as far as efficiency goes to be incredibly fun. I do enjoy lore and so on, but anyway, I am saying this all in advance to inform of what type of player I am, how much time I have invested into testing and feedback, and also to address the inevitable "you play too much and are whining" posts that people always do when someone has a valid concern.

I currently have played 30 days and 10 hours. I don't have much afk time as the game logs you immediately and I can only play when I am off work. I have submitted a lot of tickets on feedback. I am mostly focused on mechanics and game balance (not that everything has to be balanced) so that everyone is having fun. I have also only played since May I believe, so I may not know some things that our known in the community by veterans.

OK... onto my actual concern. I recently decided that I really liked the results of my L5 words of power (the highest level one) so I gathered the mats for 200 and wrote them all down. If you have ever done this you would know how much mats that is, particularly the Nightmare Flesh which isn't particularly easy to get. I then had to write all of these down cause heaven forbid we have a way to copy/paste them from the message pop-up. I also screenshot each time I get the popup with the words of power and I keep all of this in order in my folder so I can figure out the actual word if I wrote it down wrong. I then enter the words of power by copy/paste as it allows me to get the buff or effect quickly while actually playing.

I was not made aware that the words of power can be stolen, and lost a huge amount of them. My document is 9 pages, contains over 200 words of power, and I had done this in the past 2-3 weeks maybe (its not months or years old). The way the mechanic works, which we are "meant to find out" like so much other content, is that someone else can get the same word and use it. Here are the problems with this and why it is unacceptable:

1. A player can lose their word without knowing better. The current mechanic definitely suggests to a player to save them up as we are required to write them down, its not a random buff that is given upon crafting of the word. The obvious assumption would be that it is ours as there is no warning or message informing us of the flawed mechanic. I am not aware of any warning in game about other players stealing your word of power, please inform me if there is one and also make it in red text like many other warnings in the game (hardcore mechanic for example).

2. I understand that in this game we are meant to "figure it out" and I generally have loved this. I am enjoying figuring out powerful builds, exploring dungeons, and have maxed a majority of skills without much help from others or the internet. This all fun and good. The catch is that you can't have your armor, weapons, or anything else stolen by other players. I understand how the concept is fun (oh no I lost the word! Eek), but the way it plays out is far too punishing. I lost probably a day of playtime to this.

3. I put in a ticket asking if it was a bug. I also informed them that I had spent a huge amount of time on this. The response was "this is how the mechanic works, players can steal your words of power" paraphrased. Maybe one sentence. No apology from them, no compensation as after all I am testing your game and the flawed mechanics for you from my own time... nothing.

I have seen an increasing number of complaints about this type of feedback both here and in game, with friends, etc. It is not acceptable to ask us to figure out the game if the mechanics are this punishing. Its fine to ask us to find out how to unlock a skill, a puzzle, etc. as there is not really a "negative" response beyond what we obviously know: you will lose time doing this. What is not acceptable is removing time/money from us due to randomness. I am not aware of many other ways the game does this, but this mechanic must go. I am not even bothered by it that much, in fact I'm moderately indifferent as I have tons of resources, I'm more annoyed by the response from the developers and the lack of consideration that you will lose players to obnoxious mechanics like this. Don't imply through game mechanics that something is ours, have us invest time to get it, then take it away. Good way to lose players. Also, not apologizing when your testers get burned hard is a great way to lose players.

To summarize, I love this game and want to continue testing it. I want to help you guys balance the mods and skills a bit better (they are horribly balanced at the moment and need tons of love), however when I sink this amount of time into something to facilitate the testing process and all I get is a canned response that took 10 seconds to write.......... well don't expect much effort in testing from me going forward, at least until this is addressed directly. I'd feel less confident in this if I didn't directly know of other identical/similar situations with players being frustrated by a lack of effort in responses.

TLDR: I am not asking you to change crappy mechanics, I am asking that you have major warnings on ones that can lead to total heartbreak. You have red text and warnings all over the "hardcore" system about the death mechanic, and its not even THAT punishing if you know about it, but there is not one warning that I am aware of about this archaic and awful feature that involves other players stealing your crafting. Please consider respecting our feedback as we are working hard for you for free.

- Arundel

[BetaNotus]

While this may not be a direct response to your comments, it might help... possibly?
At one point, there was an introduction to Words of Power on the website, but that seems to have vanished during the redesign. Even older players may have read a blog post, that's also now "gone." I've got a copy of that though, and here it is:

Elder Game, October 28, 2011.
Words of Power

I needed something for the Lore skill to do. It’s a prerequisite skill (meaning lots of skills will require it), but it felt stupid without a job of its own, too. So I decided they could research Words of Power. These seem pretty fun so far.
Words of Power are randomly-generated sequences of phonemes. (For example, ‘Twimjot’, ‘Fledbydpal’, or ‘Chruggomdye’. The’re gibberish, but not completely random letters, so you can kind of figure out how they would be pronounced.) To use a word of power, you just type it into the chat window. When spoken aloud, the word’s power is triggered and the word is used up, replaced with a new word. Words of Power only ever work once.

If you have a high Lore skill, you can research Words of Power via the crafting system. When you attempt the research, you can choose items to sacrifice. The more valuable the sacrificed items, the bigger your chance of success. If the recipe works, you discover one of the current words, along with an explanation of what it does. Their effects range from strong buffs to potent debuffs to killing yourself instantly, turning into a harmless animal, and a large number of other random effects. I’ve only implemented a few effects so far, but I intend for this to be one of the dumping grounds for any crazy effects I think up.
One interesting thing about Words of Power, though, is that this is a shared resource. There are (say) 10,000 active words in the universe and it’s possible for two players to research the same one (but unlikely, given the large number of them). Once anybody says a word of power, it stops being a word of power. So it doesn’t make sense to hoard too many words at once — eventually somebody else will discover your words and use them before you get a chance to!

There will be many levels and types of words, their effects becoming ever more arcane and bizarre. Nestled in among the thousands of words will be ones that bend the rules of the game: for instance, there’s a word that can kill everyone in a 20-meter radius, even though this isn’t a PvP game, and there’s otherwise no way to kill players. (So if you want to kill somebody really badly there’s a way to do it. However, it will cost you an exorbitant fee, it works only once, and your victims are likely to thank you afterward because it gives Dying XP from a cause of death they probably can’t achieve otherwise).
Since they’re just words, they can be traded in-game or out… as long as you really trust somebody. Or they can be shouted out in chat: “Somebody say ‘foafulpetzel’, something great will happen!” Words of power are a social device, and not an entirely positive one. I think it’s important for a game to have some sources of player drama like this, as long as the drama is entirely opt-in. But I dunno, we’ll see. Really, this is one of the design philosophies of this MMO: I’m intentionally doing things that are unusual, and combining them together in a complex world where it’s not really possible to predict how things will play out in the end. If it ends up being broken, I’ll just have to roll with it.

But anyway, back to trading them. There needs to be some reliable way to trade words of power. So I think there will be another research method that costs more, but doesn’t reveal the word to you outright. Instead, it gives you a scroll. When the scroll is read, you learn the word, and then the scroll disappears. Internally, it picks the word right when the scroll is read, guaranteeing that it’s still valid. That’s important, since nobody wants to buy a scroll with a used-up word on it. But the down side is that you can’t know beforehand exactly what the word will do. The scrolls have pretty generic labels (e.g. one might be labeled as a “Level 4 word of power”). Somebody looking for a very specific word may have to buy quite a few scrolls to find what they’re looking for. That’s okay — words of power aren’t supposed to be a particularly reliable or commonplace commodity.

Guessable Words? That’s Terrible! Wait, I Mean Great!

The words are generated from a list of phonemes. The more phonemes in the word, the more powerful its effect is (in general). Super-powered words are 30+ characters long and quite awkward to type. Less-powerful words are much shorter. For instance, right now on the test server the words “Follyik”, “Taithig”, and “Chrobog” are all bottom-tier words of power.
When I first implemented this, my instinct was that the above words were too short. People could guess them without researching! Especially after players learn the phonemes that are used, it would become relatively easy to guess. There are only about 100 phonemes, and these low-level words only have two phonemes in them, so there’s only about ten thousand possibilities… hundreds of which will be valid at any given time. You could have a 1-in-20 chance of guessing a word — or even better odds!

That seemed broken, so I fixed it, making all the words longer. And then it hit me: wait, no, that’s not broken, it’s great. If you’re at the bottom of a dungeon, trapped and out of ideas, and you resort to mumbling random phrases hoping to find a word of power, that’s… kind of wonderful, really, in a thematic sense.

The guessable words aren’t powerful enough to damage the game balance, but they can mimic items you may not have on hand. For instance, a low-level Word of Restoration gives a big health-regeneration effect for five minutes.

The server protects against chat-spamming, so you can’t type too many attempts too quickly (or, just as importantly, hack the client to try thousands of guesses per second). Thus it would still take you a while to find a word of power by random guessing. But there is definitely a real danger to this system because it rewards excessive patience. (This is called “balancing via tedium” and is a big no-no in MMO design, unlike other game types like board games, where it’s often harmless.) So I’ve taken pains to make sure that people aren’t necessarily rewarded for just standing around typing words for hours. If guessing random words somehow came to be seen as the “right” way to beat monsters, that would be tragic.

That’s why I added the nasty effects. No matter what you’re trying to do, there’s an effect that will probably ruin your plans. Some kill you instantly, some teleport you to an odd location, some make you unable to wear pants for 30 minutes, and on and on. It’s true that the “good” combat effects might get you out of a jam, but these low-level words aren’t much better than a store-bought item. A Potion of Regeneration is a much saner survival tool.

Toys For The Rich And Powerful

Of course, the high-level words have a different role in the game: they’re where I stick the really weird stuff. For instance, one of the words polymorphs you into a pig permanently. (Yes, forever and ever, unless you obtain a rare dispelling potion. No, I don’t know why you’d want to be a pig forever, I just had the model handy and needed some insane power words. Ooh I know, I should make it so pigs can detect truffles from 60 meters! Let me write that down.) Other top-tier words permanently affect your stats, randomly raising or lowering your max hit points. Some turn boss monsters into harmless mini-monsters, or turn lakes to blood. But these words are insanely expensive to research. They’re money-sinks, in other words: toys for the overly rich.

(But to protect newbies, I’ll add a skill restriction on them… it’s one thing for an experienced player to be tricked into saying the Pig Polymorph word by a guildmate gone rogue, but it’s quite another thing to trick a newbie into saying it without understanding the dangers!)

The lower tiers of words, on the other hand, are generally more workmanlike. If you’ve got a high Lore skill, it might be worth your time to research some good level-two words for a weekend raid or planned boss battle. They’re for that sort of thing: semi-special occasions.

And the guessable lowest tier of words can be just as detrimental as useful. So if I get the balance right, then guessing words will be seen as a pretty desperate move… but if you’re desperate enough, or bored in town and want to experiment, hey, knock yourself out! Or blow yourself up, whichever happens first.

[Khaylara]

Sorry I didn't read everything but WoPs can technically be researched by other players, they are not "stolen" per se but another person might research the same word especially if you don't use them for a while (you might've "stolen" someone else's words too). In a batch of 200 if you apply probabilities it's very likely some were researched by someone else, the combinations aren't infinite. That is if I understood your issue correctly.

On the topic of testing and dev response I find it above average for a game that has technically one developer. Iirc srand files our reports and Citan fixes the bugs (simplistic way to put it but the point is they do respond to bug reports just not always via text but by fixing them). In this case it was easier imho to ask on Help chat, it's not really a bug and it's common knowledge:) Did not require a developer response.

[srand]

Thank you for the very detailed feedback, Arundel.

The date on old WoP info that BetaNotus resurrected (and thank you for that, BetaNotus!) really surprised me. (2011? Really?) But it's true - the Words of Power system is very old and a lot of the features that were planned haven't been implemented yet. Worse still, the game has advanced in some ways but this system just hasn't kept up. We need to do a lot of work to get it up into the same gameplay usability ballpark (if that makes any sense) as more recent skills.

Your feedback is incredibly valuable for that. It's great to have it on the forums, too, where others can join in with suggestions and comments. (And yes, some venting, I'm sure. :))

I'm sorry about the miscommunication involving your in-game report. We're only a few people and we sometimes need to go through the reports fast. On a quick reading and since it was marked as a bug report, yours looked like it just needed a quick 'nope, that's intended' response. That response wasn't meant to be snide or dismissive. I'm sorry it came across that way.

[Arundel]

Thank you guys for the replies. I do my research well but had never seen anything on Words of Power, so I assumed that I kept them indefinitely once I recorded them. This system seems intuitive enough. I'd suggest that either it be changed to actually be permanent (not stolen) or that there be some warning about "be careful, another adventurer may utter this word and take its power from the realm" so that we can be clued in not to hoard them. :P

Srand thanks so much for the response. I really wasn't expecting to get my time back, and I fully understand you guys are working very hard to respond to everything so you just went through it as you would any other. I don't know if I mentioned it in my bug report (I think I did), but when I actually tallied how many words of power I had made it was 200 (I can post the Word Doc as proof for unbelievers). A bit extreme, but the effects are very handy in a pinch. I was sad to have lost them, but it means a ton to know you guys care enough to consider changing the system to spare poor shmucks like me who hoard, or at least just let me know you read the feedback. Problem solved as far as I am concerned, thanks for letting me vent.

[Silvonis]

It's not that they are 'stolen' but rather that someone else did the same work that you did, discovered the word and used it. They put in the same amount of work and I think saying that they 'stole' it mischaracterizes the situation. I know the response did not say they were 'stolen'.

Anyway, as far as 'compensation' - while we absolutely sympathize with situations like this, in cases like this we are unable to provide any sort of replacement. That's especially true during testing. While it's understandable there is frustration, you are testing the game and rooting out frustrating issues, bugs, etc is exactly what testing is all about.

Finally, the in game reporting tool is not for asking questions but rather to report bugs, suggestions, etc. It's not intended for conversations. Generally, if you are unsure if something is a bug, you can ask in General chat or bring your questions to the forums. Of course, you can submit it as a bug but please remember the above. If you haven't already, check out the sticky Testers Guide as there may be helpful information there.

[Silvonis]

Just to add, your feedback is appreciated. A note or warning that Words of Power can be discovered by others is a great suggeston.

[Hoxard]

I think it would help if the recipe text more clearly stated some of the risks involved. On top of having other people find the same word as you, there's also the possibility of researching the same word twice(had it happen a few times, one time I crafted two words and got the same one twice.)
I think it would also improve the system overall if there was some incentive to use the negative words. My understanding of the current system is that words are only replaced once used, which means all the good ones will get used instantly while the bad ones will sit around and waste slots forever. Personally that really kills any interest I have in words since I almost always get the bad ones.

[Crissa]

Some of the earlier recipes did say that words of power could be used up. That's why scrolls of them are better than just getting the words themselves.

I've never had a stored word last more than a week. I'm not sure if that's a pretty quick turnover or whatever, but I kinda gave up on working on them.

...Mostly because Lore really ended up being really boring and useless to have levels in. I expected some synergy with Meditation and Alchemy and Artistry and such.

[Arundel]

It's not that they are 'stolen' but rather that someone else did the same work that you did, discovered the word and used it. They put in the same amount of work and I think saying that they 'stole' it mischaracterizes the situation. I know the response did not say they were 'stolen'.

Anyway, as far as 'compensation' - while we absolutely sympathize with situations like this, in cases like this we are unable to provide any sort of replacement. That's especially true during testing. While it's understandable there is frustration, you are testing the game and rooting out frustrating issues, bugs, etc is exactly what testing is all about.

Finally, the in game reporting tool is not for asking questions but rather to report bugs, suggestions, etc. It's not intended for conversations. Generally, if you are unsure if something is a bug, you can ask in General chat or bring your questions to the forums. Of course, you can submit it as a bug but please remember the above. If you haven't already, check out the sticky Testers Guide as there may be helpful information there.

I want to reply to this. I've appreciated Srand's feedback, I have interacted with Srand more than once and have been blown away by the maturity of their responses both dealing with the facts (data) and the human elements (emotions, time invested, griefing etc.). I am not triggered at this point. I will be blunt because I have tested and played MMO's for a decade. I'm pretty tired of developers expecting us to test their games for free and not appreciating it in the process: this pre-order, testing alpha/beta thing is fine and all but it used to be that you paid people to test your games for you. I don't want payment and I don't want reimbursement. Here is my deal, I never once asked for compensation and I would have denied it if you tried to give it to me. I have tons of resources if you looked at my account, what I am irritated about is this kind of reply where you coldly explain everything I did wrong in the process and don't consider that you have a tester working his butt off for free. When an error like this occurs and it costs a player a lot of time the correct response is not "its testing" and essentially "get over it", it's to try to address the heart of the issue (no warning, and time lost) as Srand did. You WILL lose players over dry responses like this, and you would be wise to back off and consider your approach. I hope this helps as you develop the game, this is just my insight as a veteran of countless MMO's and a guy who generally sticks with a game for years and beta tests every bit of content. Appreciate what you get when you have hard working testers like my peers and guildmates, and give us some respect when we are frustrated. I get that you are giving me facts but it is the way you go about doing it that is irritating to us. I try to stay positive but consider the relationship here. You are getting free testing, some of us could literally be professional Q/A type testers with out backgrounds, and your responses are dry or almost smug (talking as much about responses in game as I am here). I'm not alone in this. Anyway, have a good day and I hope you consider your methods in the future.

[Khaylara]

They get testing for free, we play for free, just a thought.
We lost many things (including my lost poetry bonus level *hint hint*) but that's expected in alpha, beta, even after release items wipes happen. Compensation for what? I mean your playstyle is your choice really, the devs didn't force you to research 200 WoPs. I lost actual items (gear pieces) to bugs, reported, moved on, those bugs were fixed. I don't expect compensation or eternal gratitude for bug reports so a little confused. Yes, srand is more diplomatic than Citan or Silvonis but I still fail to see what's so triggering in Silvonis's reply:O


"3. I put in a ticket asking if it was a bug. I also informed them that I had spent a huge amount of time on this. The response was "this is how the mechanic works, players can steal your words of power" paraphrased. Maybe one sentence. No apology from them, no compensation as after all I am testing your game and the flawed mechanics for you from my own time... nothing. " --I don't consider it a flawed mechanic, I actually find it realistic that some other people can research the same words. As I mentioned b4 it was much easier to save yourself the trouble and ask on Help chat. I'm not sure everything I report is a bug but I report it anyway, I usually don't get a reply but I'm absolutely sure it's noted, srand might be a very nice lady but she would go crazy answering all reports (especially if they don't actually concern bugs).

[Apsalar]

If there really are only 10,000 words of power and Arundel made 200 in a days worth of work there is an economy problem that is only going to get worse with greater player population. One player taking out 2% of the supply in a day is a large percentage. Are they recycling eventually after use?

[Malarthi]

Worse still, the game has advanced in some ways but this system just hasn't kept up. We need to do a lot of work to get it up into the same gameplay usability ballpark (if that makes any sense) as more recent skills.

Since it sounds like you might be making some changes to the Word of Power system, I wanted to toss an idea I had out there:

Reusable, personalized (like brewing) words of power. Each WoP would still use phonemes, but instead of generating words at recipe/research time, you could mix and match various phonemes to create effects on the fly, with the only restriction being the part of the word the phoneme appears in. As an example, if a basic word of power is now three parts, a b c, b might describe the effect you want, with a being a modifier as to the strength, duration, or otherwise modifying the effect, part b. Part c might be who the effect should happen to (with a phoneme for "me", another for "a circle with a radius of five meters centered on me" (which would include you!), "twenty feet in front of me" etc) As you level, you'd be able to choose a section to gain new phonemes in, specializing in more powerful but limited effects, or a variety of effects but only affecting yourself, or being able to cast a cantrip on anyone by name. Eventual high level applications might include different tenses of the language (describing an effect that will happen, or making "then in the past" be "actually happening now"), or meta phonemes that allow you more flexible structure in parts of your spell (Instead of just a "strong alcohol tolerance for me" you might have a "strong and long lasting alcohol tolerance for me" or a "strong alcohol tolerance for everyone within ten feet of me that isn't an elf"). Because any words of power beyond the bare basics are per person, you won't run into others researching the same words as you and using them first, and anyone else attempting to use your creations will at best look foolish, and at worst light themselves on fire or be cursed to a fate worse than death.

Balancing a system like this promises to be extremely hard, and the only places I can even think of to start are:

Make it an end-game system that costs money per level, as supplies for a properly equipped room where you mutter to yourself until something happens, and the ability to both test what that something is, and survive the potential consequences without destroying your premises.
I guess another alternative would be to balance through tedium again and force you to try combinations by hand to discover new ones, with your level reflecting what you know. But this seems like a problem in that it is both really un-fun and open to abuse by unscrupulous individuals.
Do limit the number of times a word of power can be used, with perhaps higher levels or certain meta-modifiers giving a bonus, requiring substantial effort to prepare every time you want to be able to use your custom spells.

[Khaylara]

Suggestion too-make the priority based on Lore or Vocabulary. For example 4 people research the same word, only the player with the highest Lore or Vocabulary can actually use the word, the other 3 will stutter and mess it up:) The stuttering could be a filter like the beast speech or the drunk speech. I don't know, I like the current mechanic (words researched by other players that "expire").

[ShieldBreaker]

Expanding on Khaylara's idea what if you are drunk and you misspeak the work and crazy backfire effects kick in if your drunk speak causes issues with the word.

"Look, maybe I didn't say every single little tiny syllable, no. But basically I said them, yeah. "
"Dung-eating fool! Thou hast doomed us all!"

So the bulk might be to summon an undead foes, or getting the Haunted Curse. Haunted Curse with even more powerful enemies. hah, just what popped into my head read the post.

[Khaylara]

That's sadistic but it sounds so fun xD Imagine being blind drunk and have a harp equipped and an army of Ursulas spawns on you cause you slurred a WoP.

[takatoka]

i like that :)

[Crissa]

That sounds hilarious ^-^

I mean, you'd have to control for griefing, since you could to it 'intentionally' but aside from that!

[ShieldBreaker]

That sounds hilarious ^-^

I mean, you'd have to control for griefing, since you could to it 'intentionally' but aside from that!

Yes I can see maybe some need for griefing control. Kind of thinking that you would end up other backfires as well, like instant death, leprosy, armor debuffs, tempted to say inability to get xp for a couple of hours (but that seems to drive some people over the edge :-| ) , thinking the fact that all kinds of bad things might happen might slow down people walking into a crowd and hoping for the calling of the army of the undead. It is those oh damn moments, I was only tipsy and I forgot I was and look what happened, that would be the funniest to experience.

[Arundel]

They get testing for free, we play for free, just a thought.
We lost many things (including my lost poetry bonus level *hint hint*) but that's expected in alpha, beta, even after release items wipes happen. Compensation for what? I mean your playstyle is your choice really, the devs didn't force you to research 200 WoPs. I lost actual items (gear pieces) to bugs, reported, moved on, those bugs were fixed. I don't expect compensation or eternal gratitude for bug reports so a little confused. Yes, srand is more diplomatic than Citan or Silvonis but I still fail to see what's so triggering in Silvonis's reply:O


"3. I put in a ticket asking if it was a bug. I also informed them that I had spent a huge amount of time on this. The response was "this is how the mechanic works, players can steal your words of power" paraphrased. Maybe one sentence. No apology from them, no compensation as after all I am testing your game and the flawed mechanics for you from my own time... nothing. " --I don't consider it a flawed mechanic, I actually find it realistic that some other people can research the same words. As I mentioned b4 it was much easier to save yourself the trouble and ask on Help chat. I'm not sure everything I report is a bug but I report it anyway, I usually don't get a reply but I'm absolutely sure it's noted, srand might be a very nice lady but she would go crazy answering all reports (especially if they don't actually concern bugs).

I would hope you can understand the difference between a statement of fact "no compensation" and a direct request "give me compensation!". If that is too hard for you, then I am not sure what to say.

[Khaylara]

What I don't understand is why you brought up "compensation" in the first place. They don't owe us, the testers/players any response, apologies or compensation, bringing it up was unnecessary. Pointing out a source of frustration in game is fine but directly attacking the staff cause you didn't like their tone or lack of response for something trivial is not.

Don't forget that it's not actually a chore you do for free, you get lots of entertainment value out of this game while testing it. Nobody imposes any condition on how you choose to test P:G, the amount of testing and reports is your choice. "If that is too hard for you, then I am not sure what to say" that was also unnecessary (and rude) considering you bashed Silvonis for much less. It's not only the staff's obligation to be polite you know.

[srand]

It's okay, Khaylara. We've asked you to help us test, and we understand that sometimes that is incredibly frustrating. In fact, one of the things we'd like you to test is what mechanics are too frustrating and punitive. (We may not change those, but we need to know what you think.) Sometimes that leads to some venting. It's understandable, and we expect it. I think that we do have an obligation to be as polite as we can (within reason). And compensation can be as simple as listening, understanding, seriously considering your experiences and feedback, and letting you know how much we truly do appreciate your efforts.

Arundel pointed out a problem (with some venting); I apologized for not listening to the problem; Arundel accepted the apology. Let's move on.

If nothing else, I am glad that this opened a conversation on Words of Power. I am intrigued by these suggestions. :)

[Crissa]

Since the result of a Word of Power is so random, you sorta do have to make dozens to get the one you want.

It's often better than trying to craft the specific effect - curing animal shape comes to mind.

[Arundel]

What I don't understand is why you brought up "compensation" in the first place. They don't owe us, the testers/players any response, apologies or compensation, bringing it up was unnecessary. Pointing out a source of frustration in game is fine but directly attacking the staff cause you didn't like their tone or lack of response for something trivial is not.

Don't forget that it's not actually a chore you do for free, you get lots of entertainment value out of this game while testing it. Nobody imposes any condition on how you choose to test P:G, the amount of testing and reports is your choice. "If that is too hard for you, then I am not sure what to say" that was also unnecessary (and rude) considering you bashed Silvonis for much less. It's not only the staff's obligation to be polite you know.

This is my last response here. Khaylara, not everyone is like you. I have lost friends testing due to frustrations and not feeling they are heard. You can also take a simple look at Reddit for this game or our forums to figure this one out. Now hear me out, I'm not advocating that if every person who cries isn't heard immediately we should just give up - I am saying that I have had many a person who tested hundreds of hours share the same concerns with me and some did leave... don't know if they will be back.

Just because you are content to test a game and hit issues like this without ever getting frustrated doesn't mean others will do the same. Listen, I have played over 600 hours and this is about one of 3 things that actually frustrated me and it was pretty limited. What is more frustrating to me is the lack of empathy from devs/testers when a player loses 3 hours or 20 hours due to a lack of proper wording. I don't expect perfection from anyone, but I do expect a bit of empathy during this process. I also did not want compensation and only brought it up to say "here are your options for throwing someone a bone"... the successful MMO's I have seen have been good at consoling players who lost a bunch of time to something very frustrating. It is true that this is testing, but we also are being told we keep our characters/skills (?) so it is not "just" testing either.

That said, it may seem that I blew off steam on Silvonis but this thread was specifically about devs not acknowledging frustrating situations (which was already cleared up by Srand very nicely) and Silvonis joined the thread as if to say "I am going to ignore your exact concern and repeat the offense...." and do the specific thing I was complaining about. If this is hard for people to understand then you just need to work on your empathy. Maybe it is what I do for a job that makes me opinionated on this but this is a two way thing. I show a lot of patience testing a game like this, but sometimes you get frustrated losing a bunch of time to something and you do have a right to express that and hopefully you are heard. This process creates better feedback. I inherently trust Srand and listen to her (forgive me if I am incorrect in saying her, that is what I have been told) much better than others because of the way she has responded to me with respect and addressed concerns.

All that said, the overall response time and specifically srand's responses are far above what I would expect of a small team. I am just trying to help out so our already low population doesn't shrink more. If I vent my own frustrations and mirror my peers in this then I am sorry if that offends you.

[Silvonis]

This is my last response here. Khaylara, not everyone is like you. I have lost friends testing due to frustrations and not feeling they are heard. You can also take a simple look at Reddit for this game or our forums to figure this one out. Now hear me out, I'm not advocating that if every person who cries isn't heard immediately we should just give up - I am saying that I have had many a person who tested hundreds of hours share the same concerns with me and some did leave... don't know if they will be back.

Just because you are content to test a game and hit issues like this without ever getting frustrated doesn't mean others will do the same. Listen, I have played over 600 hours and this is about one of 3 things that actually frustrated me and it was pretty limited. What is more frustrating to me is the lack of empathy from devs/testers when a player loses 3 hours or 20 hours due to a lack of proper wording. I don't expect perfection from anyone, but I do expect a bit of empathy during this process. I also did not want compensation and only brought it up to say "here are your options for throwing someone a bone"... the successful MMO's I have seen have been good at consoling players who lost a bunch of time to something very frustrating. It is true that this is testing, but we also are being told we keep our characters/skills (?) so it is not "just" testing either.

That said, it may seem that I blew off steam on Silvonis but this thread was specifically about devs not acknowledging frustrating situations (which was already cleared up by Srand very nicely) and Silvonis joined the thread as if to say "I am going to ignore your exact concern and repeat the offense...." and do the specific thing I was complaining about. If this is hard for people to understand then you just need to work on your empathy. Maybe it is what I do for a job that makes me opinionated on this but this is a two way thing. I show a lot of patience testing a game like this, but sometimes you get frustrated losing a bunch of time to something and you do have a right to express that and hopefully you are heard. This process creates better feedback. I inherently trust Srand and listen to her (forgive me if I am incorrect in saying her, that is what I have been told) much better than others because of the way she has responded to me with respect and addressed concerns.

All that said, the overall response time and specifically srand's responses are far above what I would expect of a small team. I am just trying to help out so our already low population doesn't shrink more. If I vent my own frustrations and mirror my peers in this then I am sorry if that offends you.

I understand that you are frustrated with the situation, but if we are being forthright in your original ticket you explained the issue and then asked if it was a bug or a feature. I responded that others could discover the same words of power and use them - thus the ones you were saving could become used.

After that, you came on the forums to vent saying that the response you received was that you were 'out of luck' and that others 'stole' your words of power.

I feel that is a mischaracterization as I never said either, in fact - I simply answered your question by explaining how others could research and find the same words. That doesn't mean I didn't feel bad for the situation, I was just trying to give you a straight forward answer to your question.

The in game reporting tool is not designed for extensive conversations and I apologize if you took the response as short or without empathy. We are now making it clear that the in game tool is for bug reports and suggestions and that any questions not answered by the community should be posted on the forums (as stated in the testers guide).

All that said, I'm going to close this thread as you've made your point clear. If you would like to discuss it further, then please feel free to email us at supportatprojectgorgon.com.