Dev Notes, June 6, 2017

[Citan]

A quick "I'm not dead" blog post today.

This week I'm working through a bunch of data bugs and we'll have a hotfix update tomorrow or Friday. (Hotfixes don't require a new client download, and only have a minute of down-time for the server, so we just put them up whenever they're ready.) There are a bunch of rabbit-ability-related fixes, plus some changes to food and item drops, and lots of other little things that have been collecting back here.


Global Storage Access

The latest update gives you access to all the storage in a city from one fixed location. The idea is just to simplify inventory management, and as I mentioned in the last blog post, you'll eventually have this kind of unified access from any storage NPC, rather than having to go to one fixed spot (like the bookshelf in Serbule).

But there was a surprise side-effect. And I love when that happens! It means the design is working: the game is becoming complex enough that even I can't keep track of every way that different systems can interact. But I guess I probably should have spotted this one, since players noticed it within minutes: with the new storage access points, animal-form players can access storage from NPCs that don't talk to animals.

I'm considering this a bug, but I haven't fixed it for the upcoming hotfix. I'm still mulling the pros and cons here. On the one hand, I don't want to let animal-form players have access to those storage containers because it means there's a "right" way to play animal forms: first you should unlock all the storage with all the NPCs everywhere, and only then should you become an animal, because you'll still have access to the unlocked storage. That design sucks! I don't want people to feel like they're playing "wrong" like that: "oh, you became an animal without reaching Soul Mates with X, Y, and Z? Ha ha noob, you should quit animal form and go do that first." Ugh. And when I add more NPCs, would those players feel compelled to stop being an animal and unlock those NPCs' storage? Probably.

But on the other hand, I don't really mind if animals can access additional storage. There's lots of other features of the NPCs that they're still missing out on... and storage is really important. Animals do have some storage of their own, but in total it's not as much as regular players have.

Of course, the "obvious" thing to do would be to let animal-form players unlock all the storage in the game. But that's not gonna happen: too much scripting work. (And that would mean animals would have MORE storage than regular people: animal-only storage plus all the regular storage. That seems dumb, too.)

So right now it seems like something that I need to fix... but I'm interested in your thoughts on this before I do so.


Weekend Events

This last weekend's event, Garden Invasion, was something new for us. Most every "weekend event" so far has just been a buff or two, or perhaps a wandering NPC that shows up to give out special items. Nothing too fancy. But Garden Invasion actually changed how the game plays, in a very specific way, for a limited time.

This UPCOMING weekend will also have a new event. It's smaller in scope than Garden Invasion, and it doesn't have a new skill to unlock, but it does show another direction that we can take these events, and I hope you enjoy it.

After the weekend is over, I'll create a forum thread to get ideas about other events we can do in the same vein. I like these more-intricate events. They're a fun change of pace, and I want to create a bunch more of them... but I have to admit I've been drawing a blank when trying to come up with good ideas that don't require a ton of new tech. So I'm hoping I can use your brainstormed ideas as a jumping-off point.


That's about it for now. I'm still neck-deep in bugs here, but I'll hopefully have something more sexy to talk about next week!

[Emmentaler]

Hey just my 2 cents here.

I am excited for new events. Buffs are great no lie but who doesn't welcome a little more dynamic change in their game?

On the animal issue
It's a tricky situation for sure. But for me I'm totally fine with animals having the storage the way it is. I think there's a lot of hassle animals have to deal with and most hardcore animals I know are always hoarding gear for different combinations. Any extra storage is like manna from heaven. It's true the whole gain favor as a nonanimal first thing is kind of awkward but I feel most players play fast and loose with their race and forms anyway. I gained a favor boost when I first met Flia as a cow then she recognized me when I became an elf again a while later without losing that initial bonus. I think we're all weird adventurers in a constant state of flux with animal forms, giant heads, crazy curses, wild and crazy skills, that everyone just takes it in stride. The animal players still lose a lot of services for being an animal. I feel the storage through the global storage access is just remembering the good times they had with the npc back when they gave Marna a giant pile of baked beets.

Also I'd imagine it'd take some finaglin' to fix. I'm all for reducing your workload. As for the whole min/maxing aspect yeah its true it would create some pressure to be optimal. But I'd rather go with that then reduce potential animal storage. If you leave it the way it is the animals have the option to go nonanimal and unlock storage if they want to or not if they don't. If they feel that pressure and it's making their life worse I can't imagine them being sane long in project gorgon with the overall interconnected awesomeness that is... well the whole game! But remove it and people see it as an option getting taken away.

So TLDR: Im for leaving it as it is, I think the pros outweigh the cons. But I see arguments for both sides and you gotta do what you feel is right.

[Crissa]

Well, the way it was made animals pretty much screwed until they got animal-rep.

Maybe you could pool some of the animal-access storage with non-animal storage. So it wouldn't matter who you got it from. If you were storing from Joeh, and instead with um... Well, a different source, you could still get your old items.

Kind of like how we have a unified backpack?

[Mbaums]

Any 'does not matter' solution would drown out the hard choice/life of being an animal.

I was first thinking of some like, animals rent fake-IDs to access the storage area for 15-mins on like a 3 hour lock out timer. Problem is, there is still that "right way" to get storage. Maybe the Fake ID method has favor locked at Comfortable, but requires some serious quest with someone else? To make it mean, you can also have one slot randomly get stolen each week by the NPC giving you a fake ID.

[ShieldBreaker]

I got this strange idea about a proxy Human(or dwarf or elf). Basically expand say Gisli's talk interface to include running errands for animals, You request something from humanoid storage and after a waiting period "I'm busy at the stable, come back in X" you get the item off him. This service is only done for his closest animal friends. This could maybe be expanded to include giving gifts to other NPC so that animals can gain favor with other NPC that won't talk to them and there by allow you to increase storage with animal-unfriendly types. Or maybe Gisli could have a work table where you can put your request if you are an animal, and the idea is Gisli is doing the leg work but the table acts like a second NPC to keep things separate.

I almost feel he would want a kick back for the trouble so maybe he requests a beer for each transaction. Give him a keg and he is will to do dozens of transactions. If you really wanted to get complicated maybe have the delay be related to the kind of beer given, Basic Lager =come back in 8 hrs , Dwarven Stout = Right away, sire see here is your item, but you weren't quick enough to see me run off and get it.

[Hoxard]

Personally, in regards to the animal issue, I don't think it's a big problem the way it currently is.
Sure, the end result is that the new most optimal choice for storage is to unlock all humanoid storage, then switch to animal form and stay as one for the animal town storage, but there's always a most optimal choice. I think in this case, the effort required to fix the issue outweighs the rewards from actually fixing it. As an animal, the existing storage options are plenty. I have multiple sets of gear and reserves for pretty much every resource that currently has a use. I have plenty of space, and the only time I run out is when I start hoarding way too much. It forces me to think about what I store and to use the resources I collect instead of sitting on them for eternity.
The extra space I'd get from being able to access humanoid storage would definitely facilitate unreasonable hoarding habits, but it is by no means necessary, and honestly at this point I don't think I'd even have much use for it except for cotton overflow. Oh and I guess it would be nice to stop having to go to south serbule to switch gear sets.

Basically I don't think it's a problem worth fixing, but it won't impact me much either way.
Leaving it there gives some bonuses to animals and shapeshifters, while fixing it returns to the status quo of humanoids back on top.

[Niph]

If I remember correctly, the plan for animal forms is to make it harder and harder to switch, for instance by forcing to pay again to unlock skills after a switch. It seems to me then that the correct way to solve the problem is to increase storage available in animal-form only, and fix the bug.

However, to avoid all the work needed to add new NPCs, favor, quests, etc. perhaps you could just introduce NPC pets, a little (or big) minion connected to the main NPC in the following way:
. the pet offers the same small talk options ("my master likes this and that")
. the pet accepts gifts on behalf of the NPC
. they share favor, and when a character reaches the required favor for storage it's unlocked for humanoid and animal forms, available through the pet
. the NPC still doesn't talk to animals, so doesn't sell or buy, give quest or train skills, but storage has become an option.

Obviously, it's a way to raise favor to NPC even though you can't talk to them, but items must be turned in anyway.

Example of pets:
. Joeh's horse in the Serbule stables
. Marna's little rabbit
. Gurki's white tiger (similar to Sirine's tiger but for cold regions, also could be a trained bear or whatever)

[Elkhound]

Only Animal form I consistently play is Lycan. In the past, if I need access to Marna/Joeh (or other animal hater) for storage I would use a WoP for human illusion, do what I needed to do and carry on. The new storage access just makes it easier.

For me animal for requires some prep work and with proper planning prior to a full moon cycle I don't get into many frustrating situations.

Maybe some animal forms should require a minimum lvl to access, like the recent druid and lvl 50 requirements. Or require a quest to gain favor with Marna/Joeh for access like others in Serbule.

Storage planning seems to be a main part of the game. You cant keep everything you pick up, if more storage is added, it wont be long until we will want more storage

[Hood]

1) Rabbit thoughts> Thank you very very much for making it clear which bunny abilities are kicks. Perhaps i should post this to the hotfix thread. Anyway, im very hoppy about the addition of the skill--its cute and badass. The event surrounding it was very cool as well. More on those further down in this post.

2) Animal Storage thoughts> What if you just make all storage like Marna that is inaccessible normally to animals Deposit-only while they are animals? Theyd have to switch to humanoid to withdraw, as those NPCs wouldnt let them have it back unless they were humanoid.

3) Event Invasion thoughts> You asked for ideas. That's actually my favorite thing that you ask for, because I'm just not a good analyst of skills, numbers, and curves. But i have lots of ideas.
Shuffle the locations of the NPCs. theyve all gone on vacation and we have to find them in their new place in order to talk to them. some will find this annoying but so were the rabbits while gardening.
Treasure Hunt - add a special treasure map prize to the loot pool for a weekend. every map that is completed has a small chance to drop it, and it leads the player to a special Treasure Cartography reward.
something similar with Corpse Talking or Surveying
Speech-wide speech bugs for everyone

4) Great new avatar, Citan!

[Crissa]

Oh, I like the idea of 'fake IDs' and pet-sides and traded favor.

I think that making the choice to go animal as one that rips and tears up your old stuff as being needlessly painful. It adds nothing to the game but major time-wasted sinks. A newbie invests in Joeh because that's the guy in town, then can't access him, and basically, that's rage-quit time. There's no reason for that. However, if there's a side path...

...I think the idea of bribing the stable owner (or someone) would make a great mechanic for accessing the standard purchase table or consignment pane. While restricting the main purchase table might have some flavor (because then you need Suspicious Cow) but we want to encourage people to buy things from the consignment shelves!

Personally, I want to change into animals alot. It's fun, funny, and it's just a fun way to change your weapons.

[Oxlazr]

I mean, I've probably got the most controversial viewpoint on this whole animal-storage thing, but I personally don't see why an animal should need so much storage. You're practically restricting half your access to the game when you are in an animal form, and I think the problem lies elsewhere - again, the ever-so-discussed permanent animal forms.

Until there's some serious downsides to constantly shape-shifting, there's always going to be an overwhelming sense of obligation to decurse whenever the need arises. Unless something changes in this regard, I don't really see an issue with animals having access to human storage given how trivial gaining access to those storage venues is in the first place.

As it stands, I still feel like animal forms are gimmicky half-measures. They're fun to mess around with, but ultimately dead-ends in terms of actual gameplay content (barring lycan, which has some flexibility - and deer form for druids, I suppose).

In terms of the game being "as-is" I'd say having human storage available to animals isn't a big deal.

Shifting over to the whole "fake-ID" thing, the game has already played up the idea of familiars pretty heavily. If you could somehow become known as X NPC/player's familiar, then NPCs should be more willing to deal with you.

[Crissa]

Right now, serious downsides to decursing would bring testing to a halt and cause high-level animals to rage-quit as they get tripped up by minor mistakes.

'Permanent' animal forms are gimmicky. There's no real advantage to them. Do you get a bonus for never dropping your bardic implement or never swapping out Fire on your toolbars? Why would animals be different in that regard? Or penalized even further when cursed into the wrong animal form?

If you want people to choose not to de-curse, you'll need to give them things to do for every thing you take away. And honestly, separate is rarely equal.

To encourage people not to de-curse, they have to be able to not have thrown away a huge portion of their leveling to do so. Otherwise they're always going to want to go back. Making them want to not de-curse is key. Penalizing does the opposite of 'want'. Carrots, not sticks.

Anyhow, I think there's lots of ideas here, hopefully alot of them will make it into the game, if at least as flavor-text!

[Oxlazr]

It's a bit of a tangent. I'm not too fussed either way, but I feel like restricting access to the storage given how easy it is to curse/decurse at the moment feels a bit redundant. The other aspects of permanent forms have been discussed to death already.

At the moment there's just not enough reason to stay in a particular animal form, it gets pretty boring unless there's some larger goal or challenge. I'm personally against animals having access to that storage, but at the moment there's really no reason not to allow access to it.

[Tagamogi]

I like Niph's NPC pet idea. Keeping the current storage option would also work for me.

I have actually not become an animal in the past, specifically because I didn't want to deal with the storage. I thought about spending a couple hours sifting through Marna's and Joeh's storage, deciding what could stay there and what I might need as an animal and would need to be moved elsewhere, and it just wasn't worth the hassle to me. I'd rather just play.

[Tagamogi]

Thinking about this a bit more: Once Sunvale gets centralized storage, the argument can then also be made that the best way to play a non-animal is to become an animal for a while to unlock all the animal storage options. I really don't think it's a huge problem either way if some players have more storage available because of their previous animal or non-animal form unlocks.


Storage could also be changed so that it's really just central, and not tied to specific NPCs. Gaining favor with certain NPCs could still increase the total available storage slots, and some animal or non-animal NPCs could have overlapping unlocked storage. For example:
- up to 100 slots possible by purchasing slots from Hulon
- up to 50 slots possible by gaining favor with Sie Antry
- up to 50 slots possible by gaining favor with Raul (animals only) OR Marna (non-animals only). The highest favor with either of them would determine how many slots get unlocked.

From a game-flavor perspective, having storage tied to specific NPCs is neat. I have a lot fun imagining how Sie Antry's spare room looks with all my junk shoved into it. From a game-playing perspective, now that we have central storage I probably won't spend a lot of time talking to Marna or Hulon anymore - I'll just go directly to the bookshelf. As much as I like Marna, I like not wasting my time running back and forth more.

Getting rid of zone-specific storage would solve the problem of the animal and non-animal storage NPCs mostly not being in the same zones. I'm not quite sure I like it from a game-flavor perspective. I think it may make actual playing simpler. If I could access all my stuff in towns other than Serbule, I might actually spend more time hanging out in different zones instead of committing suicide every time my inventory is full because that's the only way I can keep my storage sorted. There could still be zone-specific favor quests in order to acccess any storage at all while in a particular zone...

[Crissa]

+1 Tagamogi.

I hadn't thought about my behavior, but that's literally what I do. I don't stay an animal because I need to level all the animal NPCs. I don't stay in other zones, because I have to go back to Serbule to get to Marna's storage to finish some recipe or other. Even as I try to get favor, it's still just easier to go back to Serbule.