seriously tips of gameplay

[loKKi]

i have some tips which i think does a good change if want a good mmorpg=

* player collision. (cant walk thru players)
* loot system= if looting other player's corpses it will be an criminal act.
* open PvP. (also that players who kill other "innocent" players will be marked as murderers.
* some kind of death penalty, like loosing items.
* an open world map and not a world divided in several maps.

so what would be needed is a PvP/criminal system, similar to what UO has.
i think these things will make a good change.
also the world should be open-world,and not divided into several maps.

Please consider these things, !
//loKki

[ShieldBreaker]

I think most of these items have been considered in the past.

Player collision, has pros and cons. If the pros outweigh the cons it would probably be implemented given enough time.

The loot system recently underwent a change, and might undergo other changes. Not sure player's corpses you mean the players tombstone or monster the player killed. If you mean the player themselves, it hasn't been part of the design up to this point. Death isn't suppose to be that dreadful in the game.

Open PVP, hasn't been part of the vision. The game is based mainly around the idea of PVE. There is limited PVP in game already.

Death penalties: Your items break if you are playing in hardcore mode.

Open world is probably not in the works. Too development intensive.

Welcome to Project:Gorgon by the way, I'd suggest trying Hardcore mode, and keep an eye out for PVP punch parties.

[Crissa]

Nearly every one of those has serious griefing issues and takes a strong moderation to police. I see that you indicate that, but... I don't know where we could get these moderators.

[Vinnicombe]

* player collision. (cant walk thru players)
* loot system= if looting other player's corpses it will be an criminal act.
* open PvP. (also that players who kill other "innocent" players will be marked as murderers.
* some kind of death penalty, like loosing items.

These would just make PG a troll playground, imho.

[loKKi]

yes well i think player collision would be good
and the Open-world map.

otherwise i like this game. its like a 3d version of early runescape/ UO.

Why player collision= in my oppinion it adds a more better "feel" to the game. at least i think so.
and the world shud be open-World. if it can be made like that?
That the world will be Open-world will improve the game also alot.
maybe we dont need the PvP stuff etc.
also one idea of PvP that there are areas where you can PvP like Runescape in the wilderness.
otherwise i meant that it "should be an criminal act to loot other mobs corpses that other player has killed."

Sry for my bad english.

This game has pottential, I think. i hope it will become good! (better, that is!)

[Aionlasting]

The Open World concept vs smaller maps is what I think anyone expects when playing an MMO these days but I believe the limitation is due to the unity engine. Citan also mentioned Unity doesn't do instancing very well. Maybe I am mistaken on the open world thing but I always thought that was the reason, mostly because I've dabbled in Unity myself and everything is scene based. I suppose you could have one giant scene though.. lol

[Khaylara]

In an open world all our computers will crash, I had issues for a long time just loading eltibule map.

To be totally honest you lost me at "Like in UO". Those suggestions involve a complete overhaul of the game and the truth is most of us like it without the addition of open world PvP or losing items upon death (as someone mentioned already there is a hardcore system if you like the HC effects).
This is the first purely PvE game I've ever played and I would like if it had a siege system or anything involving mass PvP like in other games i previously played. But that simply does not fit P:G, there are too many limitations and the first big limitation is the developer's time and how he wants this game to look. I might want mass PvP (well GvG technically) but if I'd have it I wouldn't be able to move my char since 20 other chars using spells around me would drop my fps to 3. These are only 2 limitations and I won't get into more details about griefing etc. It's just not a feasible option for this game to be PvP centric, it's designed for PvE and changing that would involve a complete overhaul as I mentioned already.

[Eachna]

This is the first purely PvE game I've ever played and I would like if it had a siege system or anything involving mass PvP like in other games i previously played. But that simply does not fit P:G, there are too many limitations and the first big limitation is the developer's time and how he wants this game to look.

I also really like the PvE emphaisis in PG.

I'd love to see a system where gear broke down (slowly) even in normal mode balanced by having more control over getting the mods you wanted.

Other than that I don't feel like any of loKKi's suggestions really fit into PG.

[loKKi]

hi. at least consider player collision, It makes the game a bit "realistic" in a way i cant describe.
its not the same thing when you can walk thru players as when you cant walk thru them.
consider it at least!! :p

[alleryn]

hi. at least consider player collision, It makes the game a bit "realistic" in a way i cant describe.
its not the same thing when you can walk thru players as when you cant walk thru them.
consider it at least!! :p
Can't really tell if this is a troll thread or not -- the suggestions seem mostly like jokes. This especially would be terrible. Trying to navigate Serbule would be a nightmare.

[BetaNotus]

hi. at least consider player collision, It makes the game a bit "realistic" in a way i cant describe.
its not the same thing when you can walk thru players as when you cant walk thru them.
consider it at least!! :p

There actually was player collision in-game at one point, and it caused some problems. Larger characters, including spiders, bats, cows, and wolves could block off entrances of some of the NPC locations in Serbule. It wasn't uncommon to have an afk character preventing access to Jack by mistake. The removal of player collision did reduce the number of player-towers, although there is a method to gain temporary solidness if the need to construct a tower arises.

[Khaylara]

I agree it's more realistic lokki but imagine someone goes afk in Marna's shop doorway and blocks the access for at least 15 minutes. How do we get in and out of the shop?


alleryn - not everyone's trolling, most new players give this kind of feedback with genuinely good intentions. He hasn't played long enough to check other zones, see how his ideas would translate or understand the Unity limitations. I think he wants to help make the game more attractive not troll.

[Crissa]

Collision is neat! It would be nice not have to walk through people or stand on them or even bump into the furniture. But the thing is, collision is computationally messy and it's hard to do in a way that doesn't cause alot of troubles. Not to mention if players are solid, they can easily throw people around.

In Second Life they have had to revamp collision many times over to prevent griefers from throwing people around, blocking stores and entrances, and generally breaking things by being asses. Not to mention it's really hard not to bump into people in a crowd or how easily it is to block a doorway or some object while you're reading a menu. And that's when people aren't trying to be assholes.

In Horizons, collision was only on between characters in combat against each other. Out of combat (at least before they gave up and dropped down to one server) when you walked around town and stopped, if you stopped next to another player, you'd bump off to the side. So you couldn't actually land on another character unless something was buggy. Of course, they had giant dragons and pixies and cat people who were vastly different sizes and their limbs would end up overlapping anyhow. But it was an interesting use of collision: only applying sometimes.

I really did like the combat where you had to circle around foes and try to trap them between you and your allies.

[Silvonis]

The problem is that collision is extremely difficult to pull off properly in an MMO setting and it typically causes more problems than it is worth.

[Crissa]

The problem is that collision is extremely difficult to pull off properly
Well, I would look at places collision has worked, which is why I gave two examples. Limiting the speed at which collision happens; limiting it to combat animations; limiting it to natural idle motion or distributional effects of characters spreading around an NPC; or shifting idle characters from pathways. Lots of ways to mimic collision without the negative effects of blocking or pushing.

[Silvonis]

Well, I would look at places collision has worked, which is why I gave two examples. Limiting the speed at which collision happens; limiting it to combat animations; limiting it to natural idle motion or distributional effects of characters spreading around an NPC; or shifting idle characters from pathways. Lots of ways to mimic collision without the negative effects of blocking or pushing.


Since we are an indie development, we need to prioritize our development priorities and as I mentioned collision can cause many issues in an MMO. As in your response, there are ways to reduce those issues but that in itself takes a significant amount of time to theorize and code out. Even then, its an issue likely to go through multiple iterations which takes away from other areas of focus.

[Crissa]

Since...I found the systems which merely mimicked collision - without actually using the complex physics of it - aesthetically pleasing. Allowing characters to side-step during their idle animations or naturally walk around the NPC they're talking to as other players arrive creates very picturesque scenes. Combat that made characters and mobs strafe around who they were fighting was tactically interesting. Neither actually needed the parts of collision that could be griefed, and were computationally like distributing grass textures. Hence suggesting them.

[loKKi]

Hi Alleryn. no it is not a troll thread.

k thanks for ur responds .

[alleryn]

Hi Alleryn. no it is not a troll thread.

k thanks for ur responds .
Ok, sorry if i accused you. Sometimes it's hard to tell on the interwebz. As others have pointed out, some of your suggestions are infeasible due to limitations of the engine (open world) or just due to development constraints (it basically takes twice as long -- or more -- to balance if you add in competitive pvp). Of course, as a new player, you couldn't be expected to know this.

Appreciate your suggestions. Keep them coming and enjoy PG :)

P.S. If you like more of a death penalty, try out hardcore mode! It really adds excitement, especially in dungeons. Be aware that if you lose your corpse deep in, you may spend hours trying to repair all your items. If you really get stuck, someone is usually willing to help you out, though, if it comes to that.

[loKKi]

Hi thanks, yes Np.

[loKKi]

A good suggestion to the game also is that try to publich it on Steam.
There alot more people would come to play this game,

[Khaylara]

A good suggestion to the game also is that try to publich it on Steam.
There alot more people would come to play this game,

That's exactly what's going to happen. I recommend reading the developer blog, link on the home page.

https://forum.projectgorgon.com/entry.php?12-Dev-Notes-January-16-2017

[Kifyi]

It's one of those things that sounds nice at first but then in practice is a terrible idea. Too many people would find it fun to block paths and doorways to important NPCs/locations. And in my experience, any game that at all fosters hostility or frustrating mechanics like that gets the worst community. To be honest, I killed a spider in a doorway by mistake and then couldn't get through the doorway.

Open world would be cool but as stated above, I read it isn't possible with the engine.

Full loot PvP is another thing that sounds fun, but in practice, isn't. I've played enough MMOs with things like this to know that I hate it and if Gorgon went in this direction I would stop playing immediately. I don't play to be griefed.

[Marique]

PG is (mainly) a PvE game and the primary reason i got interested in PG in the first place.
I'm so incredibly tired of the "force PvP through everyone's throat" hype that has been going on for a while now. I don't mind a bit of PvP on the side but forcing PvP on everyone is poor design choice imho.

Steam is a good platform but with all respect... PG in it's current state is far from ready for a Steam launch. In the current state it attracts a certain "niche" of players. That is fine but if PG is launched on Steam in it's current state the Steam rating for PG will tank within a day. This can hurt the game really bad. It's already hard enough to get a group of loyal people to play your game, it's almost impossible to convince people to give you a second chance after a disastrous, too early, Steam launch and the game got a bad name.