Another loot lock suggestion

[wuwu]

Hi I'm new here. I usually play Wuerin in game.

I'm not sure if the loot lock thing got finalized yet but here is my suggestion.

1. The first group to do 1 percent of the total damage gets the lock (actually not sure how that is calculated with the the way armor works hmmm..).

2. The loot lock (Level 1) last for a maximum of five seconds however if anyone in the group hits the mob it adds five seconds to the lock essentially refreshing it. This means that your group has to hit the mob at least once every five seconds to maintain the lock.

3. Once the group does does damage totaling 33 percent of the mobs total health the lock can last for 10 seconds (level 2). Attacks still add 5 seconds but you can max out at 10 seconds now. This means that your group has to attack at least once every 10 seconds to maintain the lock.

4. Once the group does does damage totaling 66 percent of the mobs total health the lock can last for 15 seconds (level 3). Attacks still add 5 seconds but you can max out at 15 seconds now. This means that your group has to attack at least once every 15 seconds to maintain the lock.

The big idea is that the more you've invested into the mob the more secure your lock is and you have to actively maintain it. I'm thinking that this should solve the problem with people just tagging mobs hoping that someone else kills it for them.

If you loose the loot lock the whole thing starts over. You have to race to do 1 percent damage again and depending on how much damage has been done to the target you may only be able to achieve loot lock level 1.

What do you guys think, kinda see what I'm trying to do?

[Crissa]

That would work good on big mobs, but seem to disadvantage solo, newbie players from being overpowered...
...Nor would it work on the druid event, where someone could keep hitting it every 5 seconds ineffectually after dragging it over to get caught in another group's AoE?

But a system where the lock could expire in combat doesn't sound like a bad idea. Nixing loot-locking for world event mobs seems like it would be easiest; then you wouldn't have to worry about those edge cases.

[wuwu]

That would work good on big mobs, but seem to disadvantage solo, newbie players from being overpowered...
...Nor would it work on the druid event, where someone could keep hitting it every 5 seconds ineffectually after dragging it over to get caught in another group's AoE?

But a system where the lock could expire in combat doesn't sound like a bad idea. Nixing loot-locking for world event mobs seems like it would be easiest; then you wouldn't have to worry about those edge cases.
What if aoes only did 1 damage to mobs locked by other players? That might solve it.

I'm not sure what you mean about solo newbs though.

[Crissa]

What if aoes only did 1 damage to mobs locked by other players? That might solve it.That would be a mean surprise to someone trying to use it to save someone.


I'm not sure what you mean about solo newbs though.One of the other cases of locking via damage is newbies getting out damaged while upper-levels farm around them. Losing the loot is like rubbing their nose into it.

[Eachna]

I think it's really important that newer/weaker players have some sort of small loot advantage in their zones. A strong player can always move to a harder area. A weak player can't. Also, stronger players should always be able to toss out a helping bit of damage or healing to a weaker player.

I like the idea of "the first one to damage gets the lock". It's a very clean solution. A solo player locks their mobs. A group member tags damage to lock for everyone in the group. There will be weird edge cases and griefing-type behavior whatever the lock (including no lock at all), so I feel the "best" solution is one that's easy to remember. If you have to start calculating percentages in your head while in combat it'll get confusing fast.

I think for public events which are supposed to be open to everyone turning off the lock is the best solution. If the unwashed masses shouldn't be getting loot then of course lock those specific events. But public events shouldn't have a lock. The whole point of public events is to get the community out in a big group and share both the fun and the wealth.

How awful would the Halloween event have been if only the first person/group to damage a boss got a key!?!

[Crissa]

I think it's really important that newer/weaker players have some sort of small loot advantage in their zones.

Exactly my point. I do think the idea that a loot lock that expires if someone doesn't hit it again in another five, ten seconds, is a good idea. If I run past and tag something but then flee... Well, my tag should be about as long as the damage I did to it. If I did alot of damage to it, it should be longer than if I did nearly no damage. But I'm not sure how to manage that in newbie areas... Maybe the more hits is better than big hits? Lower skill level has a longer loot lock by some weird amount? Flat time amount?

Maybe we need better ways of breaking combat: Like a basic move that we can break combat which would also release loot-locks. Someone who is running would use it to get back to their full speed (and wouldn't care about the loot so much) while someone who's invested in the combat wouldn't. (We could also make it cache up the power regen so if we're forced back into combat by said mob that we'd lose the stored power.)

There's alot of solutions here, I'm sure Citan can find something useful in our experiences.


How awful would the Halloween event have been if only the first person/group to damage a boss got a key!?!Exactly. Or the newbie bosses! We want people to fly into things and move fluidly from encounter to encounter, right?

[wuwu]

I don't know how to do all the fancy quoting but in general if the devs decide to put a loot lock on a mob I think they are saying your group is on your own. You shouldn't​ expect help. So I'm ok with limiting damage from sources outside the locked group. That's the reason your group gets rewarded and no one else does.

The one percent thing in my suggestion can go away. I was probably over thinking. First hit lock makes the most sense. The rest of the suggestion takes into account how much effort is put into the mob so I think it should stay.

[Crissa]

You shouldn't​ expect help.Why exist in an open world, then?

[wuwu]

Context is important here. If you're seeing loot locked mobs you should be doing group content. So if you're soloing no you shouldn't expect help. If you are in a group, that's what the other five people are for. You shouldn't expect help from outside your group.

[Celler]

The only option is no loot lock or no aoe in my mind.
Every time you use an aoe with others around your just going to annoy them.
I don't understand why things that work well for many are changed because 1 or 2 don't like them. They maybe more vocal but in 3 years of playing I don't think I can recall anyone giving me grief or stealing my kills etc, even if another did kill something I was fighting so what at least I could loot it.
I don't see how you can play an open world multiplayer game and say that wolf over there is mine leave it for me alone.

[Crissa]

Context is important here. If you're seeing loot locked mobs you should be doing group content. So if you're soloing no you shouldn't expect help. If you are in a group, that's what the other five people are for. You shouldn't expect help from outside your group.What's the point in an open-world? You might as well be playing a lan or instanced game at that.

[wuwu]

Really I'm only making an argument against unintentional help. AoEs are problematic because as you stated earlier can be abused in open world group content. I have no problem with another player specifically targeting the thing I'm fighting to help me even though they know they aren't getting loot from it. How can I not like that kind of selflessness​? It's a different thing if I 'steal' their damage by pulling into their aoe.

So to be clear the abuse happens when a player or group of players are in a group content area and use other players without their consent to defeat the thing they are fighting.

Anyway happy that my initial suggestion didn't cause so much push back. And I think we've uncovered something important.

[Crissa]

I don't see how you're stealing damage, since as far as I know, we don't have any AoEs that split damage by number of targets?

And for instance, my unarmed stun is also an AoE, so it would be really sad if I couldn't use it to help people.

PS: I'm just in the position we should encourage interaction and sharing; it's an open world, being part of that seems like the best part to me. Being able to just join in without needing formal group invites I thought was the best part of the game.

Which I suppose is why I yak here.