Lycanthropy, Full Moon, Altar of Norala & Progression

[ANT3RA]

Gday guys,

I am looking to discuss Lycan progression mechanics as they currently stand and permanent upgrades through the Altar of Norala during the full moon. I would like to state from the onset that I love lycan and it's mechanics and chose early on to be perma wolf. I play Lycan/Psych and am looking to dabble in Lycan/Ment soon. I am currently 51/50.

I am not an expert in Lycan, far from it. I am looking for some feedback on a couple of things. Maybe one of the devs can chime in if they find the time.

This is not a whinge or a call for change. I am just curious.
.....

I started Lycan a couple of days after the previous full moon. We are currently in a full moon as you all know. I hit 50 in Lycan in roughly 2 weeks of very very casual play. I am a grinder by nature in all mmos, be it level xp or gear. I also love farming for mats, and surveying is my thing, hands down. But I digress...

I was very excited to be part of my first full moon. I did all my altar quests, accumulating 12 tokens.

After buying the first upgrade (Increases the Lycanthropy level cap from 50 to 60, 3 tokens), I was aware that a number of other skills could be upgraded for a total of 8 more tokens, with one spare token, which I was going to use for Hunting Speed +1. One full moon cycle, 12 altar tasks, 12 tokens, once a month....check!

I was told a couple of days prior to the full moon that I could pre-buy the level 60-70 unlock for (90k odd) councils at the altar when it opened up. To my, and other seasoned perma wolf players' surprise (when we got to the altar and spent 11 tokens) it had been gated behind 3 more tokens at the altar after purchasing the last lvl 60 skill.

So after some minor addition it would take 14 tokens to purchase the aforementioned skills and unlock level 60-70. 14 tokens requires 2 full moon cycles, therefore a period of two months. Thanks for sticking with me so far. I do tend to waffle on.

.....

My query is this...

Unlocking 50-60 and 60-70 (or is that 50-70??) for any other skill is currently gated behind a council pay wall through a specific NPC. You can go from 0-70 as fast as you wish and have the councils for. Lets assume you can do this in a week, at worst a couple of weeks of casual play for any particular skill.

Has the 60-70 unlock for Lycan always been behind a 3 token gate? I have been advised otherwise, hence the 90k council cost. Keeping this in mind, if that was the case, you could level Lycan from 0-50 prior to the first full moon and then 50-70 as fast as you wanted after that, even before the next full moon.

The way it stands now, if in fact there was a change at the altar, you can get from 0-50 before the first full moon, then 50-60 as fast as you wanted after that, but have to wait for the next full moon to unlock 60-70. So effectively you are forced behind a time gate as the full moon is on a predetermined cycle.

If I hit 60 in the next couple of days, I have to stay level 60 for roughly 3 weeks before being able to progress any further. Is this intended to curb the speed at which people level Lycan?

Is the token gate and therefore a time gate until the next full moon there because it does not cost councils to progress to level 70? Is it a compromise of sorts?

Is this as a result of Lycan lore, that I simply do not understand?

Would the addition of 2 more altar tasks for a total of 14 points and therefore token unlocks all the way to 60-70 be detrimental to the overall vision the devs had for Lycan? Further to this, would the movement of the 60-70 unlock up the skill list, to be included in the first available 12 tokens, have this same effect?

If there was a change from councils to tokens for the 60-70 unlock, what is the theory behind it?

.....

To get all the permanent upgrades (including 48 storage slots) you need 3 full moons, hence three months, and this is fine. There should be a time gate for unlocking everything in a skill line. I just do not understand why implement that same time gate for progressing in levels. It seems to hinder Lycans, when other skills are not subject to such constraints. Councils are far easier to find in comparison to having to wait for a four week cycle to come around.

As it stands, those Lycans that are leveling and stuck in the level 60 phase, generally do not run as a Lycan with the higher players and use other higher level skills, if they have them. For those players like me that only really have the wolf and a secondary skill, I guess we just plod along doing other things to fill the time.

Thanks Grr Howl time...

[Luconis]

This is my first full moon so i got 50 - 60, Its only the second day of the full moon and I'm currently level 54. I fear that I'm gonna reach level 60 in a couple of days and gonna have to wait another 3 or so weeks to go any further. Is this a sign i need to do craft skills or something? Personally I'd like to see more things to do during a full moon as i was able to get most of the tasks done in a few hours.

[Tsugumori]

Whoever told you the wolf 60-70 could be pre-bought, (unlock costed councils?? What?), really knows nothing at all..

It has always been gated, other skills have the 60-70 unlock so why wouldn't wolf. I hit level 60 within a week and half after the full moon I unlocked that cap, so I just switched to levelling other skills til I could get the 60-70 cap unlock. I had to wait 2ish weeks which would frustrate some people but if there's nothing I can do it makes me feel a little better about the situation, which meant I could focus on other things.

The only way to circumvent the 'time gate' would be to have more wolf quests, but its just a thing you deal with. Do the quests, get the tokens, spend em and wait.

So... I guess you could say it is lore based but I'm baffled by your confusion. You understand 50-60 being gated by tokens but then don't understand why 60-70 is gated by tokens? Do you see the flaws in that logic...

I personally don't think both cap unlocks should be attainable in the same full moon, sure it takes two full moons but it just means when you eventually get to 70 you can give yourself a pat on the back for the work you did.

[Niph]

A quote related to your discussion:


Yes, you have to occasionally find time to play during a full moon to get the most out of lycanthropy. That's not a bug, it's a feature. In exchange, werewolf players, and ONLY werewolf players, can buy their level-ups and abilities before they meet the prerequisites. They can also pay for it in "tokens", which, it turns out, are a whole lot cheaper than Councils. :) I'm sorry that the full moon falls pretty far from this update, though.

So basically when you start you are slowed down by how many tokens you can get per full moon cycle. Say there are 5 unlocks to obtain (from 60 to 100) and you get enough tokens for 2 unlocks per cycle, it would take you 2 month and a half to unlock level 100. If your play time would allow you to reach level 100 in another skill faster, and assuming you can get the money as you skill up, then you are effectively slowed down.

Once at the max level, any unlocks introduced in the future (110 etc. if it ever happen) will be at least as fast for you as for any other skill, since you'll be able to unlock them with your accumulated tokens before the next full moon.

[Tsugumori]

A quote related to your discussion:



So basically when you start you are slowed down by how many tokens you can get per full moon cycle. Say there are 5 unlocks to obtain (from 60 to 100) and you get enough tokens for 2 unlocks per cycle, it would take you 2 month and a half to unlock level 100. If your play time would allow you to reach level 100 in another skill faster, and assuming you can get the money as you skill up, then you are effectively slowed down.

Once at the max level, any unlocks introduced in the future (110 etc. if it ever happen) will be at least as fast for you as for any other skill, since you'll be able to unlock them with your accumulated tokens before the next full moon.

Well you have to buy the wolf skills of said level cap before being able to purchase the next level unlock and tokens don't carry over to the next full moon, so it would probably take five full moons to level to 100. (50-60 | 60-70 | 70-80 | 80-90 | 90-100) Depending on how much they cost too... This is assuming skills and level caps stay the same price which I assume they will due to the waiting between full moons.

(But yeah.. I get what you're saying, two unlocks per full moon would cut the time in half, but entertaining that idea.. Eh)

[ANT3RA]

So... I guess you could say it is lore based but I'm baffled by your confusion. You understand 50-60 being gated by tokens but then don't understand why 60-70 is gated by tokens? Do you see the flaws in that logic...

Thanks for the reply and clarification. The confusion was purely based on being told that 60-70 cost councils previously and could be pre-bought. If I wasn't told that I would have simply assumed the 60-70 unlock was just part of the Lycan progression mechanics and left it at that.

Knowing what I know now about 60-70 always being behind a token purchase makes this thread moot and I feel somewhat silly in starting it.

[Dunaden]

A slightly off topic question. I just started in PG a few weeks ago and have created two characters I'm playing with. I just infected one with Lycanthropy (so this is my first full moon). He hasn't reached level 20 yet in any skill (except pathology), and is only about level 10 in Lycan so far. And not sure if he will be mainly a wolf or will stay more focused on Staff/AH and dabble in Lycan. My question is at what skill level can you and should you try to get some tokens and the monthly boons? Are any of the Altar tasks doable below level 50?

[Tiamat]

A slightly off topic question. I just started in PG a few weeks ago and have created two characters I'm playing with. I just infected one with Lycanthropy (so this is my first full moon). He hasn't reached level 20 yet in any skill (except pathology), and is only about level 10 in Lycan so far. And not sure if he will be mainly a wolf or will stay more focused on Staff/AH and dabble in Lycan. My question is at what skill level can you and should you try to get some tokens and the monthly boons? Are any of the Altar tasks doable below level 50?

While it seems most of the quests are for those around level 50, there are a few you could probably do before hand. Like at lvl 10, you could kill deer for example. Also, maybe around 20 or so you could do the goblin quest through beating up goblins in South Serbule. If you can reach the altar to begin with, you should theoretically be fine on those at least.

Then, if you don't mind grouping, you could probably convince someone to take you along for the tougher quests (most seem to be around level 40-50ish). There's the the lvl50 dungeon one you basically have to have a group to finish anyway.

[Tsugumori]

A slightly off topic question. I just started in PG a few weeks ago and have created two characters I'm playing with. I just infected one with Lycanthropy (so this is my first full moon). He hasn't reached level 20 yet in any skill (except pathology), and is only about level 10 in Lycan so far. And not sure if he will be mainly a wolf or will stay more focused on Staff/AH and dabble in Lycan. My question is at what skill level can you and should you try to get some tokens and the monthly boons? Are any of the Altar tasks doable below level 50?

I would say one would have to be at least in their 30s or know the layout of or have a guide to reach the altar in the first place. As Tia mentioned, there are quests that can be done at lower levels, but the issue is reaching the altar to get the quests in the first place.

[Dunaden]

Thanks Tiamat and Tsugumori for the responses. Hopefully by the next full moon I'll be in a better position to check out the Altar and quests.

I assume this is due to the fact that getting Lycanthropy currently is much, much easier than it will be in it's final form. Harry does mention that a bunch of steps were left out, meaning you will have to be higher level to obtain the spit in the first place. As it is, I did die twice just killing all the wolves to finish the one step currently necessary :).

[Extractum11]

I assume Blood of the Pack 5 comes from the altar, since I didn't see it on Sanja and it's not a scroll drop.

At level 50, you need to buy the 50-60 unlock and the 4 abilities from the altar (11 tokens). After that, Blood of the Pack and Skulk are added, so there are 6 abilities to buy (15 tokens). At the very best, a new player needs 6 months to get the level 100 unlocks. Note that this isn't "occasionally finding time to play during the full moon", this is playing during EVERY full moon. Also note that during this process, you lose access to any of the other things at the altar, like combat buffs, storage spots, and Dark Wolf form. So realistically, if you want to spend a month getting those other things and you find yourself unable to play during some of the full moons, you're looking at 8+ months.

Putting things behind such a heavy time-gate pretty much forces to people to not be full-time lycans. Which is okay I guess, but I don't think that's the intent. Will there be other ways to unlock levels and abilities later?

[Julcat]

Just for clarification purposes, wolf tokens cannot be accumulated over time, they are only good for that full moon and disappear if not used.



The alter seems to have become a mixed blessing, good and bad. Using it to gain skills/skill levels is putting is severely slowing lycan progression, you can unlock to gain levels but may be unable to get abilities once you gain the levels due to not having tokens or it being out of full moon phase.

I cannot see just adding more quest to get extra tokens as it would most likely cause more advanced lycans to get OP due to be able to get more of the other abilities ( health, damage bonuses, mitigation, power).

The only way around this, that I can see is for another advanced Alter/Shrine to be created so that other abilities/quests could be created, so that progression could be smoothed out.

[PlannedLycanhood]

+1 For another method of Lycan progression, every full moon only on full moon is pretty rough. I wouldn't even mind paying councils like everyone else does, between waiting an entire month or grinding moneys a bit, I'd always take the moneys.

You can always make more moneys, you can't make more full moons.

[Azio]

I would say one would have to be at least in their 30s or know the layout of or have a guide to reach the altar in the first place. As Tia mentioned, there are quests that can be done at lower levels, but the issue is reaching the altar to get the quests in the first place.

I am very new to the game and Lycanthropy but I've managed to level to 41/40 Lycanthropy/Pyschology. I've done some research on the quests and even though it wasn't a full moon, traveled to and located the Alter so I'd know where it was. Was wondering if someone could fill in the blank here:

Of the quests I think I can do, killing goblins and deer, should I kill goblins/get token to get the run speed buff to then kill deer?

Like I said, I haven't seen the quests yet but am enjoying the time spent playing Lycan. Thanks

[INXS]

For a skill that I have seen do 8-10k damage on short cd I can see why it's on a months timer for levels.

[cr00cy]

I am very new to the game and Lycanthropy but I've managed to level to 41/40 Lycanthropy/Pyschology. I've done some research on the quests and even though it wasn't a full moon, traveled to and located the Alter so I'd know where it was. Was wondering if someone could fill in the blank here:

Of the quests I think I can do, killing goblins and deer, should I kill goblins/get token to get the run speed buff to then kill deer?

Like I said, I haven't seen the quests yet but am enjoying the time spent playing Lycan. Thanks

Yes, doing for exampel goblin kill quest and gettign Wolfen Speed skill to make chasing deers/movign around easier is good idea, but keep in mind it works only out of combat. As soon as you hit something/get hit, you will lose speed buff (but it has only 10 sec cd, so you can re-apply it easly).

In fact, I would suggest proritizing this skill over everything else(except maybe level up/higher skill ranks). You'll need 6 tokens to max it. You have 2 deer and Orc kill quests, that si 4 tokens, and you shouldn't have too much trouble doing them. Then you cna do for example goblins and Fey. That leaves you with one 'easy' kill quest - Humans, that can be found in Wolf cave (or in Dark Chapel enterance are, but it migth be tricky to find), and Wolfsbane gathering quest for two additional tokens.

If you can find a group, you might be able to do rest too, but I think not many peopel run boss kills anymore (most higher levle players can solo Ciervos and Scion of Norala, and ignore Scion of Discord because its not really worth it to run Dark Chapel for this one extra point)

[Azio]

Thanks for the detailed reply cr00cy. One final question: I checked the wiki and Ukorga, the NPC with whom you barter for cold weather clothing in Kur Mountains, doesn't speak to animals. Am I right in thinking I won't get lycanthropy specific clothing from him?

On my other character, I received clothing that was specific to the primary and secondary skills I had active at the time.

[Tagamogi]

You can switch to using an animal skill while not in animal form. You won't be able to use any of the skill's abilities, but just having the skill active should be enough to influence the items you get. I don't think there's anything preventing Ukorga from handing out wolf gear - he just doesn't want to talk to them....

( With regular gear drops, there's always a small-ish chance that the gear you get will not match your equipped skills. I'm not sure if the same applies to bartering as well or not. )

Edit: Oh, I also wanted to add that I have seen people looking for group members to do the daily excursions from the casino. If the wolf cave is an excursion during the full moon, I think your odds of finding a group for it are excellent. Dark Chapel is less popular, but you might be able to find something.

[Azio]

You can switch to using an animal skill while not in animal form. You won't be able to use any of the skill's abilities, but just having the skill active should be enough to influence the items you get. I don't think there's anything preventing Ukorga from handing out wolf gear - he just doesn't want to talk to them....



Thanks Tagamogi, it worked exactly as you described. I didn't realize I could choose lycanthropy not being in werewolf form. Thanks again.