The Inventory Problem

[Lendari]

Right now I have a whopping 86 inventory spaces. Eighty-six! That's enough for anyone right? Check this out.

https://content.screencast.com/users/Lendari/folders/Jing/media/419bbfb2-9dfc-4da6-a001-e27ab3f0ba86/2017-03-26_1145.png

Let's break it down.


8 spaces for a single primary gear set
7 spaces for weapons (admittedly being wasteful with all those instruments)
9 spaces for consumables (food, snack, amethysts, first aid kit, armor patch kit, campfires, speed potions, etc)
7 spaces for tools (autopsy kit, shovel, skinning knife, inkstone, etc)
8 spaces for active quest items and incomplete quest objectives
8 spaces for arrows
4 spaces for dungeon key items


I think of all these items as my "adventuring kit". Probably 9\10 times when I open my inventory, I don't really even want to see any of this stuff. I don't want it to show on vendors. I don't want it to get confused with loot. I don't want NPC's ripping items out of it to complete quests either.

I think there's some really concrete an obvious UI\UX improvements to suggest here.


Add user configurable "tabs" to categorize the inventory.
The user can assign the tab a name.
The user can choose how many slots (from a shared pool) are on each tab.
A tab can be marked as "hidden" so items in those tabs never show at vendors.


Okay, so now that that is out of the way... let's talk about something more controversial. Here are a few things that I have just completely given up on because the inventory is too cramped.


I gave up on calligraphy. Too much inventory required, too little actual value from the skill.
I gave up on alternate skill\gear sets. There just isn't enough inventory available.
I gave up carrying health\armor\power potions. They always seemed to be the first tihng I dropped when full. So I started selling them.


Think about this as a designer, because you are designing all these cool and fun skills, but then they don't integrate well with the inventory system which is frustrating and kinda undermines that effort.

I think this is a problem.

The solution I would propose is to split the global inventory pool into smaller, more focused pools. This would allow a lot more flexibility when balancing them such that you can be more generous with some pools while still being stingy with others. Put differently, some inventory slots could have a much higher game balance "weight" than others.


Space in the "general" pool would remain limited, perhaps even more limited than it is now. You should have to make some choices when deep in a dungeon about what gets hauled back. This is good.

Space in the "consumable", "tools" and "trade" pools would also have sane maximums. You shouldn't be able to carry infinite food or every single tool. However, you also shouldn't feel like you can't do calligraphy because it takes up 3-5 inventory spaces and they would be better spent on other things. You could give more space here when players level up trade skills or industry so it sizes accordingly.

Space in the "keyring" and "quiver" could be a lot less restricted. It's just quality of life.

Finally, the "equipment" pool would be tied to how many gear sets the character has earned. So each time you gain a new gear set, you get exactly 10 spaces here. To prevent abuse, you might have to mark items placed here as permenately untradable\unsellable.


To me this would feel a lot more logical and restricted in the right ways. It would be less frustrating for the player while simultaneously increasing the flexibility for the developer to balance each pool independently and add more skills without them being unintentionally gimped by the inventory system.

What does everyone think?

[rastaah]

I can really only add I feel the inventory is a bit restrictive, I deal with it and it has not been a deal breaker for me but it is an annoyance for me too.

I have been figuring I'd eventually figure out better ways but so far, not so good !

[cheaptoad]

I find it a bit annoying that gear/armor I'm wearing is in my inventory. So, it's in my bag AND on my body?

[Crissa]

I would add, I rarely use potions mostly because I can't find them in combat. My alternate bar is already filled with my repeatable heals like first aid and dig deep.

[asalts]

I noticed this as well. Perhaps they could implement something like the pack system in AC: You can buy/obtain multiple backpacks which have different tabs in the inventory window. This way you can sort your stuff however you want in your different bags.

Another feature could be "packs" which take up one slot in your inventory but can hold multiple items of a certain type. For instance, a "weapon pack" which takes up 1 inventory slot but you can put five swords in it. :cool:

[rastaah]

These are all great ideas and I agree on all of them including the potion bit and love that last idea, also agree not sure why armor is in pack and not on body :D I guess maybe that just figure those slots as your body so they added extra in already? Not sure.

[Dragone]

Not much help but would be right if anything you got equipped it shouldn't be in your backpack!

[Greyfyn]

When you decide what you carry around, that is a major part of the game. Most of what you have in your bag, I would have in storage. Problem solving is an enjoyable part of the game and I don't think the answer is more bag space, or different bag space. It's prioritizing. I don't carry my instruments, for example. Also I think we're lucky to not have a weight assigned to items and have to decide based on how heavy things are.

There is a lot more storage in game than is readily apparent. Check /wiki storage to see the complete list: http://projectgorgon.com/wiki/Storage . A lot of the storage is dedicated as you describe. But I don't want to spoil that for people who want to find out on their own.

Once you've opened up and used all this storage and figured out that you don't need everything you carry, perhaps reevaluate. You may have the same answer, but possibly not. Most people in the game apparently hoard. That does make storage pretty tight. But NOT hoarding also has advantages as well, including not fretting over inventory space. Citan has more than once told everyone to sell their stuff!

As for additional storage bags, Archers do have a serious disadvantage regarding inventory. If something were to be improved, that's a priority I would pick.

[Yertle]

I noticed this as well. Perhaps they could implement something like the pack system in AC: You can buy/obtain multiple backpacks which have different tabs in the inventory window.

I was thinking about this and comparing to AC, but the difference is that AC had a Burden concept for drawbacks to over-carrying items which PG does not have. So I kind of see it as the trade off between Burden vs Slots. So while I like the ideas presented on the thread, I found I wasn't comparing correctly at first.


Not much help but would be right if anything you got equipped it shouldn't be in your backpack!
Really seems like "inventory" could be your carrying capacity, in which case I can see how items equipped should be in your pack.

[Caustic]

Sometimes I run around with 60% of my slots full of "needed" items and yet I can hit my storage and got to Labs with 85 slots free and still have all the gear I need......

[Easylivin]

a key chain would be nice

and a bag for arrows

and maybe a toolbox

lunch pail for food/drinks

[Crissa]

Yes, we understand that high-level players have just enough storage and movement not to be carrying alot of random crap with them.

I'm not sure how that really helps those of us trying to do quests and level, though.

[cratoh]

Fix it by

1. Adding 'wardrobe' to Load outs. Any gear that is being used by any loa out character builds is removed from inventory and put into that load out.

2. 'potion case' Additional sidebar/hotbar with up to 6 slots for potions.

3. 'lunchbox' - additional 4 slot bar, food/drink/snack/heal food slots

4. quiver - obvious.

5. Harvest sack - sacrifice 10 spaces of inventory for a large bag that has 20 slots for harvest goods only. (flowers/hide/metal/wood)

6. 'Collectors Jar' - similar to harvest jar but for body parts, organs, eyes etc.

7. tool belt - obvious.

8. attache case - scrolls

There are may things that could be added to make life more fun. I love PG but as a massive hoarder sometimes it just all is too much, with the inventory and I just stop for a bit, it's the only thing that turns me off about the game.

[lilibat]

Yes please to a key ring!

[cratoh]

Yes, we understand that high-level players have just enough storage and movement not to be carrying alot of random crap with them.

I'm not sure how that really helps those of us trying to do quests and level, though.

I've all sorts of skills maxed, loads and loads of storage, a storage guild tons of mules. I still hate the fact that so much of the active inventory is taken up with crap

[asalts]

I was thinking about this and comparing to AC, but the difference is that AC had a Burden concept for drawbacks to over-carrying items which PG does not have. So I kind of see it as the trade off between Burden vs Slots. So while I like the ideas presented on the thread, I found I wasn't comparing correctly at first.

I agree that there has to be either a burden system or a limitation on slots. Honestly I'm fine with either but it would be really nice to have some way to subdivide your inventory with different tabs or something besides just doing what op does and putting the things next to each other.

[Hood]

What kind of problems would unlimited, account-shared bank space solve?

What kind of problems would it create?

[Khaylara]

Yes, we understand that high-level players have just enough storage and movement not to be carrying alot of random crap with them.

I'm not sure how that really helps those of us trying to do quests and level, though.

A high level would have even more crap to carry. I have all possible (almost all maxed anyway) storage and inventory spaces. When I try to clean inventory it takes at least half an hour though considering how scattered the storage is. Also, I do not like wearing my generic mods pockets gear instead of my combat gear but I have to. It might seem like a desirable problem to have "Oh, I have to use my 28 pockets pants instead of my modded pants" but it's really a bad one. Missing 6-7 skill mods when you do combat is a big deal.

And a big yes to potions pouch, toolbelt, etc. The fact that we have to use mules is a big nono for me, inventory and storage are the features i 100 % dislike in P:G. I like the game a lot and i put up with it hoping for an improvement soon but it's the most frustrating, time sinking, annoying feature this game has in my books. I constantly throw/sell things I know I need but I can't be stuffed traveling for 20 minutes to store them in their proper storage.

[Yertle]

What kind of problems would unlimited, account-shared bank space solve?

For me, I don't have as much problem with overall bank space when including mules (although I don't have any yet), storage, and NPC storage, but it's mainly my active inventory that fills up, especially when trying to hunt/collect/survey for items to sell. So I don't see that solution solving much in what I see as the Inventory Problem.

[Yertle]

I constantly throw/sell things I know I need but I can't be stuffed traveling for 20 minutes to store them in their proper storage.

I agree that it's annoying, but also it does kind of make sense right? I mean you really only can carry so much stuff, so a decision as to what to keep and what to drop does make sense to me.

[Yaksnot]

Two really quick points:

1) dimensional folder potion: it stacks and its cheap / easy to make -gives you additional storage space for 1 hour. super easy solution.

2) I completely agree with a better way to sort items that are in your bag instead of a sort button at the bottom. hello over 100 slots and I get a sort button...hmmk.

I am hoping its part of the GUI update, but there are alot of little things like this that I am hoping is part of the GUI update so I know its not possible for them all to happen. It is Alpha or whatever so personally I love that people are bringing ideas to the table.

...speaking of which please god make fishing...more >< lol

Yak

[Khaylara]

Yertle-I agree it has to be a limitation of sorts. Not debating that part, I'm annoyed by the fact that EVERYTHING is literally dumped in my backpack like there's no tomorrow. Gear that should have its own slots, spare gear, arrows, tools, food etc is unorganized and splattered all over my inventory space. Many things stack randomly only to 5, 10 or don't stack at all. That's made more difficult by the icons (the free unity ones i'm guessing). I throw 20 wool cause i'm out of space to butcher then i discover that I had a slot taken by 1 rib bone which I thought was a craniometer. The more inventory space i have, the more it gets taken by a new random thing that doesn't stack (like honey). I'd rather have less inventory slots but more organized.
What drives me nuts first and foremost is the lack of inventory organization of any sort. The solution is either separate tabs or vials pouches, quivers, toolbelts etc. so I don't have to sift through 200 slots to find my beachside blends or a carrot seed.

I've been creating threads about inventory and storage pretty much since I started playing PG. I think there's a plan behind this (or at least devs said so),maybe it's house storage, maybe saddlebags, I just hope it gets more organized and manageable. Again, it's not the size of the inventory that bothers me, I have max inventory and storage, it's about how chaotic they are and how much they take out of my actual game time. With hundreds upon hundreds of storage slots spread on all maps I can't make notes for every stack of gallbladders or cat eyes I store, it becomes inventory and storage simulator that way.
Please forget the "you don't have to keep everything" part, the game punishes you if you're not a hoarder. I sold or threw all the guano from the halloween event and when I needed it for fire magic research I was lucky to get 7 from a more cautious guildie who hoarded them. We threw the parts that are involved in shamanic infusion leveling cause they "weren't for anything yet" then people who wanted to level that craft paid 150-200 councils a piece.
Also if that went unnoticed, when you have say 26 femurs in your inventory and you take 10 out of storage they don't stack. The player has to manually stack them even after the Sort button is pressed. Since sometimes I forget to do that when getting items from storage or transfer chest I oftentimes lose 5-6 slots taken by this bug (i'm assuming it's a bug).

As it was mentioned already, hoping parts of this are solved by the new GUI but I'm not confident that will solve more than maybe gear pieces getting their own slots (which is good but only a small part of the problem). What sounds like a worry for me is that people make more and more mules to cope with the issue and that's not the best solution.

[Crissa]

I've all sorts of skills maxed, loads and loads of storage, a storage guild tons of mules. I still hate the fact that so much of the active inventory is taken up with crap
I meant to reply to this:

Not much help but would be right if anything you got equipped it shouldn't be in your backpack!

What I don't like is pretty much what Khaylara just said: I spend more time trying to manage my inventory than I do the rest of the game.

[Eachna]

What kind of problems would unlimited, account-shared bank space solve?

What kind of problems would it create?

You might try answering you own questions.





Once you've opened up and used all this storage and figured out that you don't need everything you carry, perhaps reevaluate. You may have the same answer, but possibly not. Most people in the game apparently hoard. That does make storage pretty tight. But NOT hoarding also has advantages as well, including not fretting over inventory space. Citan has more than once told everyone to sell their stuff!


You can keep insisting that the storage problems in-game are because everyone else except you and your coterie of friends are hoarders, but that doesn't make it true.

The bank is too small and extra bank slots cost too many councils.

The NPC storage in-game isn't laid out well.

Using storage outside of your bags is awkward because you have to run to the physical location to access it.

Without reading the wiki it's impossible to know where the NPCs are that have storage. Unlocking the favor of every NPC you meet to try to discover the storage through play is wildly expensive.

Banks are available on all (or most) large zone maps, but dedicated storage for NPCs on different maps isn't linked (by that I mean all the "alchemy" storage in-game on NPCs isn't linked).

Say someone is storing their alchemy mats with the Serbule alchemy NPC. And they're questing in Rahu. When they want to dump their alchemy mats they have to run/teleport back to Serbule. To go back to questing they have to run/teleport back to Rahu. It becomes worse when they have mats stored in different cities. I might spend an hour or two questing and then go to drop off all my mats. It can take me half an hour to make the rounds between all the NPCs that hold my stuff. I'm not just running a lap around one city or another. I'm going between cities, and teleporting around (and for the city where I don't have a teleport I'm running through other zones). If I'm not supposed to do this - if I'm not supposed to use the storage on these NPCs - then why is it in game? If I am supposed to use it, why isn't it convenient?

A lot of storage is in awkward places. The Myconian caves. The sewers. The starter island. I won't be any more specific than that but it's not reasonable to expect players to treat the storage slots tucked into odd corners of the game as useful and functional for daily play. It's fun to find and unlock them, but once they're unlocked they should be accessible.

Some NPCs don't store items used in their dedicated recipe trees. Alchemy NPCs don't store fish, although fish are used in several alchemy recipes. Even if you use the dedicated storage, when it comes time to craft stuff, you probably have to run between multiple NPCs to get the materials for your recipes.

tl;dr - Just because something exists in game doesn't mean it's designed well or it's practical to use.

[Eachna]

Lendari, thanks for taking the time to post the graphic of your inventory with the color bars. It helps communicate the tight inventory limits very clearly.


I find it a bit annoying that gear/armor I'm wearing is in my inventory. So, it's in my bag AND on my body?

Weirder, it's in your bag but it doesn't count as items you're carrying for the purposes of quests.


I would add, I rarely use potions mostly because I can't find them in combat. My alternate bar is already filled with my repeatable heals like first aid and dig deep.

Anything that can be clicked on and used in your backpack should be able to be loaded into a special toolbar on your screen for players who want the clickies up to use.

There should be multiple bars so you can arrange them the way you like. Some people might want to put all their "potions" in one bar, while someone else might want to put all their "healing consumables" in one bar. And if you don't want to do either, you don't put anything in the bars and you have a clean HUD with no distractions.


Many things stack randomly only to 5, 10 or don't stack at all. That's made more difficult by the icons (the free unity ones i'm guessing). I'd rather have less inventory slots but more organized.

I agree. Part of the stacking problems comes from crafting being neglected and not getting a pass. I found posts on the old forums from Citan saying he had different intentions for stacking at different points and never took the time to align everything.


I like the game a lot and i put up with it hoping for an improvement soon but it's the most frustrating, time sinking, annoying feature this game has in my books. I constantly throw/sell things I know I need but I can't be stuffed traveling for 20 minutes to store them in their proper storage.

Also agree. There's a lot of stuff I look at in-game and I think "Well, that looks like half a system and I'm sure it'll be nicer later." I'll write a suggest message about ways I'd like to see it improved and maybe a comment or two on the forums and then go back to playing. There's a lot of half-done stuff that's easy to ignore because I don't expect polish in alpha.

I can't ignore storage. It's a basic system and it touches *everything* I do. It's even more fundamental than combat. You can play without killing stuff (sort of ;)). You can't play without holding stuff somewhere.

[Hood]

You might try answering you own questions.


I suppose if I wanted to do that, I would have. You might try not telling me how to post.

[Caustic]

There is going to be a change for inventory, been due for a while. I reserve judgment until after that.
I actually agree that inventory should be an issue. But also think there needs to be ways to increase it like with favour and buying extra slots. The idea of the game is not generally to be able to hoard everything, you are supposed to make decisions. Later on in the game you generally know what is useful and what you dont loot.

Some forms of organisation would be nice. I really dont want to have a spreadsheet to track where all my stuff is. (I do tend to only have certain items in certain places)

I really dont want this to turn into a game where everything is given to you at the start.

[rastaah]

I have one thing I don't understand 'temporary inventory space' What good does it do? Its for an hour, i guess enough time to run to a vendor? Because if it vanishes where does your stuff go? lol

[Eachna]

I suppose if I wanted to do that, I would have. You might try not telling me how to post.

It must be very hard being so grumpy.

Have a smile: http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/668918-no-stop-touching-me-i-am-the-night

[Crissa]

I have one thing I don't understand 'temporary inventory space' What good does it do? Its for an hour, i guess enough time to run to a vendor? Because if it vanishes where does your stuff go? lol
When a storage space changes size, you can still take things out, you just can't put them in. And some things, which force you to take too many items, can also push you over capacity.

So if you change the number of pockets you have, you don't drop anything, you can only access the first n items. And you can't add things until number if items is below n.

Strangely satisfying, honestly.


No one asked for "unlimited account-wide bank storage". So there's not a lot of point in responding to the rhetorical cost of features no one is asking for. I have! I would really like this ^-^

[Eachna]

I have! I would really like this ^-^

Crissa LOL. I'll go fix my post. :D