Lets slow it down...way down

[Yaksnot]

Hey folks,

I am trying to understand exactly what it is thats going on. I feel like there is some mechanic I may be missing or inadvertently running into over and over and over. So im posting it here, to try and figure out if its the game or me.

Combat, I know there is a delay from when you get out of combat to being in a non combat "stance" as it were. but it seems like instead of getting better it is getting worse..or annoying me more. So here goes:

-jumping: non combat jump no mobs around, i take damage from a fall over over like 20 hp, i go into combat mode for several seconds.

-pets: I have no idea what is going on but unless im using my BC pet as a mana tank I never use pets anymore, as they seem to love staying in combat (other issues too but see other posts on pets)

-DoTs: if i have dots, one of my part members have dots, I put a dot on a now dead mob, combat. this can be from a few seconds or until a 30 second dot ends. I can literally have portaled to a new zone with the dot ticking and still be in combat.

After combat: no dots rolling, solo hunting and just hanging out in combat mode. its like it just freezes for a bit, then 10-20 or so seconds later everything will catch up and my bars are full and im out of combat. not sure whats going on there.


Now I love the game so its not a gripe fest but i dont understand what it is that I am doing, or some mechanic im missing, or if its just kind of a known slow down mechanism. And each one would be fine on its own but all together i feel like there is a lot of un-needed combat "slowing" in the game right now.

I get that power is your ability in game is used to measure your ability to do activities, but it seems to me right now that instead of being a capping stat to make sure you dont spam epic attacks its biggest usage right now is used to make sure you dont run very far or do anything very fast because it takes a delayed time to get out of combat mode. Im going out on a limb and guess this is not the intent. because the game is fun, exploring, crafting leveling mats, doing events, even yes growing cotton to achieve and end is all fun. However; being consistently slowed down by combat mode is not so much on the fun.


So that is what I am experiencing and I am sure I am not alone, I am wondering how have other people gotten around this? just accept it? is there something I am missing?

-Ponderously yours

Yak

[jaspen]

You are not a lone. Sometimes, almost all the time, I feel like I am playing hunchback simulator with the constant crouching my guy does. It is bad when I have to overly navigate around low level crap just to try and prevent the crouching slow down. Killing the low level crap just makes it worse as you stay in combat way too long afterwards as well. It adds that little extra pain to traveling that isn't needed as it kills most run speed buffs.

Way too many things causes your character to go into combat mode. There are some locations far worse than others, like some extremely painful areas in kur. Don't even get me started with how frustrating being near deer there can be. If it is running from me why should I even be in a defensive combat pose...

I understand they probably don't want everyone gracefully running through groups of mobs. I assume it is there to try and impose challenge and threat to you. That sounds fine except in practice it isn't working well. I do believe they have commented on knowing there is further work needed in this area so I assume they are aware. It does go to show why druid is so popular but I am doing my best to resist.

[Oxlazr]

I'd agree that losing speed buffs in combat has made traveling a bit slower overall, but I haven't noticed power being at fault for this.

As I recall, some skills do have movement buffs that work in combat, and using things like extra toes & items can help reduce travel time overall.

As for power drain due to being put in combat, it's not something I usually have any issues with personally. That said, I tend to use skills that restore power - plus food regen helps. I'm not saying it's not an issue, but it's probably something you can work around until a more permanent solution is found - I'd guess mounts being the intended solution.

And yeah, flight form is kinda overpowered for travel regardless. I personally think having flight like that can make the world seem smaller, but I can't ever see it being removed.

[ANT3RA]

On the topic of delayed exit from combat.

Not having any dots or mobs anywhere near me after finishing combat I roughly have a 10 second delay before I can eat a corpse. I am under no adverse effect after combat.

I am unsure if this is a feature that I am unaware of, possibly to slow down progression or clearing areas too fast. Something may have changed on a patch?? as I didn't notice this issue before.

I usually engage as many mobs as I can, do my business, move onto looting, butchering/skinning, autopsy and finally eating (werewolf). The first mob (or any dead mob for that matter), as stated takes 10 seconds, before it allows me to eat. The other post death functions are available though.

Having to wait 10 seconds to eat the first corpse when there are multiple dead mobs around, makes it interesting when there is a re-spawn. On re-spawn the process repeats for 10 seconds, re-spawn, dead mobs, 10 seconds etc etc. The issue then becomes one of not eating corpses in dungeons and people losing their shit because it affects spawn rates.

Combat feels fluid and not laggy, I dont believe the eating issue is lag related.

[Citan]

As you know, we're still working on the in-combat system, specifically in making combat end quickly. But finding the exact scenarios that cause problems are difficult. Most reports are just "I'm in combat too long", which doesn't help us any. We need specifics! We need to work out the situations where it's happening so we can fix them.

First step is to see WHY you are in combat. Hover your mouse over the "in combat" icon at the top right of the screen. It will say, for instance, "You are in combat with Rat and two other enemies" or whatever. How long does it stay that way? Is it just one creature, far away, keeping you in combat? Does the rat ever show up? What is going on? Do you see a pattern?

The more details you can give, the better we can work on the problems. Thanks!

[ANT3RA]

Thanks mate.

I will use that as a guide and take some notes while in game.

Ill get back to you after some testing under various conditions.

Cheers

[jaspen]

I believe that before we waste your time, and to optimize our testing, we need to know how you feel combat should play out. Here are a couple of rough questions to help us out.

1. How long after a mob's death do you intend to have us in combat, or should the death be an instant off? This assume there are no other combatants obviously.
2. Should taking falling damage put you in combat mode? I understand drowning doing so.
3. If you get near another person that is fighting, that isn't in your group, should it put you in combat? Do mobs have an simple aggro radius and everyone is automatically added to their hate list if they are within it upon anyone engaging said mob?
4. Should DOTs keep you in combat mode? Likewise, should a dot on someone in the group, or another player near you, keep you in combat mode?
5. Should deer keep you in combat mode? Also, is there a way of coding the fleeing not to do so or is the intent supposed to make hunting them harder?

I am sure there are a couple of scenarios dealing with pets but someone else will have to ask that as I have zero experience with pets.

Knowing what to expect, and what is intended, helps us know what is out of place and what isn't. A lot of what we have talked about is common place and doesn't require much testing to encounter.

[rastaah]

I do know losing health while swimming puts you in combat but just assumed it was intended. I need to quit assuming :D My issue is I can be 'too' easy going and things may not bother me that bother some users. I will work on reporting these instances more though.

[Crissa]

Gez, a ten second delay?

Corpses often vanish on me and I'm just trying to turn them into organs.

[Hood]

Not what you're asking for, but a way to avoid losing power while moving in combat is to walk instead of run. This can be done by holding Shift while traveling.

[jaspen]

I do know losing health while swimming puts you in combat but just assumed it was intended. I need to quit assuming :D My issue is I can be 'too' easy going and things may not bother me that bother some users. I will work on reporting these instances more though.

It puts you in combat so that you don't regenerate, natural or with food, past the drowning damage. I believe it was probably done to simplify the code versus writing another state a character could be in.

[Dragone]

I find it when I kill a creature if I keep it highlighted takes me longer to get out of combat, compare to clicking anything but kill after done gets me out slightly quicker, then I click on kill and loot.

[Yaksnot]

First step is to see WHY you are in combat. Hover your mouse over the "in combat" icon at the top right of the screen. It will say, for instance, "You are in combat with Rat and two other enemies" or whatever. How long does it stay that way? Is it just one creature, far away, keeping you in combat? Does the rat ever show up? What is going on? Do you see a pattern?

The more details you can give, the better we can work on the problems. Thanks!

Trying to do this, I am getting that message when I am fighting a mob (or group of mobs) but after combat it goes to a generic "In Combat"

More to come

[ANT3RA]

Gez, a ten second delay?

Corpses often vanish on me and I'm just trying to turn them into organs.

You obviously have something against me posting on these forums like you are some form of higher power.

Keep digging.

[Khaylara]

I'd like to help with what Citan asked but I can't. I don't seem to have the combat icon to check.
I noticed something that tends to keep my char in combat-gear mods that trigger a defense of sorts or a reflect. Like "% damage will be reflected into your next Punch or Kick" type. I noticed that happening while running between ilmari mobs...my char stays in combat till power completely drains out. Also mitigation fields seem to have that effect. These during solo play.

In groups it's easy to notice, the other day a group member couldn't change his skills cause of my char being in combat for no reason at all. The whole 10 people group is chill while my char is crouching and losing power. There's no apparent reason, no icon to check (as far as I could see). I can only get my char to act normal if i /sit and wait. I noticed the same thing yesterday in a 3 people group. The other 2 were fine while my char was doing a Delta Force walk and losing power constantly. I checked my P tab for any reason, couldn't find any.

I reported it few times (especially the first part) but I can't pinpoint the cause, sorry. I'll keep trying to figure it out. I know it's not helpful to report it w/o giving the specifics but I have no idea why it happens.

PS-my ping is about 120-140 and the people in groups oftentimes have way more than that so I excluded lag as a possibility. Maybe it is though.

[Yaksnot]

Round 1 of testing:

Ok this is what my notations are, could be right could be wrong but this is what I am seeing. (side note I am trying different ways to record so I can post to youtube but not having a ton of luck yet)..

General: there seem to be a delay from when you are in combat, then nothing is going on for a second or two then pops you out of non combat. This seems to be the case after every combat instance. you fight -> kill mob -> nothing is going (ergo you are "cleared") then -> non combat. I don't know if this is right or not but this seems to be what happens...with that established as what I am seeing...

SOLO:

1) Dots, as stated dots will keep you in combat. dots on mobs that are already dead and dots on you from dead mobs. the average fight isn't that long, lets be generous and give it like 10 seconds, some of the dots are 20+ seconds. Sometimes it actually lets you out of combat with a dot on, maybe?? this is due to the dot being far enough between ticks to active that "cleared" status.

PETS:

1)not going to cover it we all know the status of pets but I think it has to do with the same issues as group play


GROUP:

1) It SEEMS like if anyone takes a healing or damaging action in anyway while you are in combat it will extend it for a few more seconds, adding to the state where "cleared" becomes available.


Wonky:

Those are what I have noticed since posting with actual monitoring of the combat status. just for fun though sometimes it seems the rules go out the window and I have yet to figure it out. Jumping..sometimes it puts me in combat sometimes not, still haven't figured out what seems to be the cause. Sometimes rabbits wont run away or attack but will keep you in combat while you are in kur. sometimes it seems to take a really long time for that delay to get to "cleared" status before it lets you out of combat and no idea why that I can tell.

I will keep working on it but the above are what I have been seeing a lot of.

Yak

[Citan]

Thanks guys. The ten-second thing seems like it might be relevant somehow -- there is a ten-second check in a certain situation (mainly, part of the PvP in-combat checks)... I can't see how it would apply when fighting monsters, but if it's lasting exactly ten seconds, that's a pretty interesting clue. I'm exploring that part of the code now.

The intention is that you should stop being in-combat about 4 seconds after killing the last monster that knows about you. Regarding groups, anyone in the group who's "in combat" will keep all nearby group members in combat. That's by design to prevent exploitable situations (such as when a support character has basically infinite Power by staying out of combat the whole time). For similar reasons, if your pet is in combat, so are you, and vice versa.

DoTs that monsters put on you are supposed to keep you in combat. But DoTs you apply to monsters should only keep you in combat until the monster dies.

Khaylara - it's this:
http://i.imgur.com/niY5Xsk.png

It only appears while you're in combat.

[Khaylara]

Yup, it doesn't give details, only "You're in combat". I will edit when i test more but I just went to ilmari, i killed a fire drake and got that fire dot on me. It had 18 seconds duration when i checked, after 5-6 seconds I got out of combat while still having the fire dot. Randomly few seconds later when the dot was about to wash out I got in combat again. No indication why, just the same "you're in combat" on the icon. I didn't attack or target anything.

Will add when I get to test more.

edit-From what I've seen the mitigation fields and dots keep my char in combat longer than 4 seconds but the icon gives no indication on why. The dots are a problem though, dots keeping a char in combat=that char doesn't regenerate at the normal rate while taking ticks of damage.
Another situation happened in the gazluk caves where it kept saying "you're in combat with Mushroom" but there's no mushroom in sight.

[Yaksnot]

Figured out the jumping earlier today!

Ok if player X is going speed 10, and Mob Y is going speed 5 then player X will just zoom on by them if they are not hit right? right. so the mob hasnt hit you but your still in its agro radius, so its chasing you until it reaches max distance and resets. IF you jump and take damage with a mob chasing you, even though it hasnt hit you, you will go into combat. thats my theory and im sticking too it...cause i tried it a few times..

[Yaksnot]

Final thoughts:

still getting some crazy extended combat periods with pets and in groups. but now we know why that delay is occurring taking steps to avoid it. Honest suggestion is to cut that timer down and honestly feel the dot timer to combat is extensive. I know I play a bit faster than some but standing around waiting just isn't fun.


Two forms of waiting:

1) out of combat working on skills like crafting, or watching paint dry...er I mean arrows

2) waiting for combat to clear

I get a little bit of down time is to be expected even with meals, snacks buffs ect. And I am just being honest, waiting isn't fun. While waiting on archery arrows is painful to watch them dry, you know your damage is going to be better because of the materials and the time your spending to make those arrows. but when your ramped up and ready to go the waiting around to get out of combat: for 4 seconds due to finishing combat, or 20 seconds for a DOT to tick off, just simply isn't fun.


Khaylara -the mushrooms in at least 2 caves I can think of can spawn "in" the wall. Sometimes you can even see them but you cant attack them. THEY however can attack you. when ya see it just report it as a bug, I'm sure they know about it by now but I'm thinking its pretty far down the list. I just run away to clear combat then keep clear of that mob/ area.

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts on this and for Citan clarifying some things on this.

Yak

Edited for clarity and spacing.