Game Moderator Suggestions

[Badnesso]

Currently Project Gorgon is home to mostly a mature adult audience so you don't typically have to worry about ticket spamming or any other number of possibly immature actions. I know I'm stating the obvious but this game is about to be steam rolled with the most toxic gaming community ever. This issue is literally going to be an all day every day event. I remember early on in Asherons Call they had moderators running around in game characters and there was always someone available to answer a ticket. Maybe bringing back some of these oldschool methods would make great for steam launch? I think it would be neat to see "special" moderator characters in game helping players. Anyways just a thought on the proactive

[rastaah]

The Text MUD I played had GM's that came down in 'real bodies' too and also they had a lockout cell where you sat with the rulebook.

Perhaps people who do these things to the poor Dev's can be put in a jail cell with a rule book and the particular rules highlighted :D Would prevent a perma ban and at the same time let them relearn some important manners and rules.

Not sure rehashing this is a good thing though......but those are my 3 cents on how I'd personally handle people who either are kids or act like them.

There is no reason to spam to have a curse lifted. Put in a ticket, wait. Go do something else while you are waiting. end of story.

So for that I would put the guy who was doing that in his jail cell with rule highlighted

"If you are cursed and feel it was due to a disconnect that was not your fault please submit a ticket and patiently wait for a Dev or GM to become available to help you out. If you insist on spamming either bug system or general chat you will be banned for 1 day at first. If you persist then 3 days. If done again 1 week. (then after that have to decide if you even want them in your game'

Anyway....might work

Oh, another good thing we had in Dragonrealms and I think Gemstone too was 'thumping' whereby elder players can thump someone and make them so they can't talk in game LOL. Loved that.

You had to earn the thump ability by being a good player/mature but it sure helped to stop some people who were bad.

[Khaylara]

Generally moderators are paid staff, srand acts as mod atm but I doubt they can afford to hire someone to police the game. I don't know how they got the cash to keep the server up tbh. The right thing to do is to self police, exclude the bad seeds and try not to get into arguments:) If they do the early access soon I'm sure srand and Silvonis will become temporarily more active.

Reminder-small indie game, no money to hire staff, they would probably rather hire an artist or a coder than a person to moderate the game chat:)

[alleryn]

I doubt it would be difficult to find one or more volunteers from the community to moderate the chat if it seemed necessary.

[Silvonis]

We are currently in alpha and sometimes people forget that the reason they are in the game is to test various gameplay features and functions. If you encounter an issue, you submit a detailed description and move on. We are an indie production and have limited resource and we don't need testers who are actively causing issues either with the ticket system, in chat, or even on the forums. This is not a released game and you are a tester, it should be viewed as a privilege rather than a right and sometimes people come into this expecting it to function as it is a AAA released game - which it is not. Even those aforementioned AAA released games have queues for their ticket system.

TL;DR: You are testing an indie game that is in development and if you cause trouble then we reserve the right to remove you as a tester. You agree to the EULA and Code of Conduct and we expect everyone to abide by the terms in which they have agreed.

[ANT3RA]

We are currently in alpha and sometimes people forget that the reason they are in the game is to test various gameplay features and functions. If you encounter an issue, you submit a detailed description and move on. We are an indie production and have limited resource and we don't need testers who are actively causing issues either with the ticket system, in chat, or even on the forums. This is not a released game and you are a tester, it should be viewed as a privilege rather than a right and sometimes people come into this expecting it to function as it is a AAA released game - which it is not. Even those aforementioned AAA released games have queues for their ticket system.

TL;DR: You are testing an indie game that is in development and if you cause trouble then we reserve the right to remove you as a tester. You agree to the EULA and Code of Conduct and we expect everyone to abide by the terms in which they have agreed.

How do I give a +1 or some form of credit to replies like this? I'm not sure its possible on these forums. Think Reddit credit/score system.

This reply is gold. Thank you for your ongoing dedication Silvonis et al.

I was online when the wanker was being a giant turd in global chat. We all know who he is and we all have an opinion about him and his demeanor in game. The term entitled elitist prick comes to mind. Reminds me of Darktide.

Everyone on server was on side when they agreed he was out of line and cheered on when the ban hammer hit. He is exactly that 'toxic Steam community' he refers to. People need to stop being fuckwits and berate and belittle devs in game just because they got their knickers in a twist not understanding a known game mechanic or finding a bug or glitch.

Lets get on with it and make this thing work. We all have some form of vested interest in this project (no pun intended). I for one am super excited to be part of this Alpha.

A curse is a curse of course of course...the famous Mr Ed.

[rastaah]

ANT3RA you get as many stars as Silvonis lol, yours was spot on too!! :)

I agree on all counts and I am just happy to be here and if they ever do volunteers like DR and GS did I am here if needed (though fine to just play my heart out too)

Anyways, they did the right thing and booted em' (though I'd get so much more satisfaction to see them locked in jail with a rule book for 3 days lol, every time signing in...stuck in that room , no interface except that rule book (so can't report only log out if they are sick of it, cant talk, can't spam , cant submit ticket) ahhh I am evil! mwhahaha.

[Easylivin]

ANT3RA you get as many stars as Silvonis lol, yours was spot on too!! :)

I agree on all counts and I am just happy to be here and if they ever do volunteers like DR and GS did I am here if needed (though fine to just play my heart out too)

Anyways, they did the right thing and booted em' (though I'd get so much more satisfaction to see them locked in jail with a rule book for 3 days lol, every time signing in...stuck in that room , no interface except that rule book (so can't report only log out if they are sick of it, cant talk, can't spam , cant submit ticket) ahhh I am evil! mwhahaha.

The room is a fun idea. Maybe a dungeon "prison" where they can only talk in nearby and they make glass bottles all day.

[Hood]

Silvonis , whatever happened to the Guide program? No rewards, no real power would be something the community might be okay with.

[Crissa]

It takes alot of people to have someone available at all times. It's expensive, it's considered real work, and the developers could get in trouble if they created a system they got value out of without paying the moderators actual wages.

That said, it is nice to have actual people to talk to, a transparent system to engage in. My spouse, a Linden developer on Second Life, has some fun stories of showing up and using the orbital laser to remove a troll's penis(es).

[Oxlazr]

It takes alot of people to have someone available at all times. It's expensive, it's considered real work, and the developers could get in trouble if they created a system they got value out of without paying the moderators actual wages.

In my experience doing moderating work elsewhere, I could hardly consider it real work. There is a lot of downtime, it's definitely not something every game can afford to pay for, and there's usually always volunteers handy. The trouble with just handing it out to said volunteers, though, is that it can cause further problems if they're not moderating appropriately.

I've had tickets active in WoW for weeks at a time in the past, if anything, I'd wager Project Gorgon has a faster response time than most MMOs - so it's not something I'd think would need immediate attention.

I've only vaguely been aware of the incident recently, but realistically it's one of those things that should just be ignored. Most games will have a rule against discussing the actions of staff for good reasons.

[rastaah]

I am not sure why this keeps coming up everywhere but just to say firmly from my experience in a month or so playing PG......and I am talking about submitting a bug report that my trade window is not working right.........

I got an almost shockingly fast response in a fun, friendly response of letting them know if that does not work (what I was told to try) It was actually like my old MUD where the Gm's were all volunteer and always instant and fun about it , sometimes even roleplay etc. This is what my response to a very minor issue was, I am really sure if I submitted a respectful report I might get as well in other areas of the game.

The one thing you can't say is they don't respond to tickets promptly as they actually do.......not even sure how it has come up that they don't when its so fast!

Just had to say as its like that thread won't die (about whatever went on) I am a fangirl yup.

[Crissa]

In my experience doing moderating work elsewhere, I could hardly consider it real work. There is...
Guards have 99% downtime, and it's a real job. Courts have ruled again and again that structures that companies operate and get benefit from are jobs, no matter how much 'work' is involved. So moderating is a real job.

If they're to have volunteer moderators, it has to be community administered, not by the devs. And that's tough to do. And is still labor-intensive. At least, people-intensive.

But yeah, I've had tickets literally months old get dealt with (Most recently one I reported elsewhere - last September? - a moderator got back to me this week that it'd been submitted as a bug.) so not getting a fast response is somewhat of an industry standard. They have to triage their limited time to all the reports they get.

[Khaylara]

In my experience doing moderating work elsewhere, I could hardly consider it real work. There is a lot of downtime, it's definitely not something every game can afford to pay for, and there's usually always volunteers handy. The trouble with just handing it out to said volunteers, though, is that it can cause further problems if they're not moderating appropriately.



Even if they are moderating appropriately, if they are part of the community (aka players) they will be accused of being biased/unfair/siding with their game friends/not doing their job etc.
Although I personally had no problem with the mods we had, I refuse to believe that a mature playerbase (at least age wise mature) cannot police itself throughout alpha and beta.
PS-not talking about any particular incident but in general I believe that using volunteers is a bad idea (unless it's someone who is not playing the game, brought from outside on a pro bono base)

[Tsugumori]

The only PG players, I as a player would trust, would be players that have been here a number of years. I get what Silvonis said and I'm happy enough that the moderation is adequate. Any time I have submitted a bug, reported a player or had an issue I have either gotten a response or it has been dealt with.

I also agree with self-moderation, people are people and there will be clashes of personalities, that's just community on any level. Be it the local fishing villages or online gaming ones.

It would be nice if some of the players in game knew how to use their 'backspace' button instead of just mashing 'enter' like it was their birth rite but alas, that day has not yet come to fruition.

[Niph]

[...] (unless it's someone who is not playing the game, brought from outside on a pro bono base)

In my opinion, to do a good job at moderating in a game like P:G, you probably need to be an experienced player, at least if you want to cover all aspects of the game and not just chat.

[Khaylara]

In my opinion, to do a good job at moderating in a game like P:G, you probably need to be an experienced player, at least if you want to cover all aspects of the game and not just chat.


I thought the OP meant moderator like in chat moderator (as opposed to game master who usually has way more tools at their disposal). I honestly wouldn't want a GM who is also a player, sooner or later that creates animosity and every time when they would make a tough decision it would get questioned. Players now don't normally challenge or question srand when she gags someone/namechanges but if it was a fellow player doing that...


About a moderator for chat being also a player ...I felt bad cause they got abused several times by players they muted (I'm sure you remember at least a few incidents).

Imo better let staff be staff and we try to act like normal people in the meantime so we won't need a mod till launch.

[Oxlazr]

I thought the OP meant moderator like in chat moderator (as opposed to game master who usually has way more tools at their disposal). I honestly wouldn't want a GM who is also a player, sooner or later that creates animosity and every time when they would make a tough decision it would get questioned. Players now don't normally challenge or question srand when she gags someone/namechanges but if it was a fellow player doing that...


About a moderator for chat being also a player ...I felt bad cause they got abused several times by players they muted (I'm sure you remember at least a few incidents).

Imo better let staff be staff and we try to act like normal people in the meantime so we won't need a mod till launch.

In my experience, any sort of moderation needs to be done anonymously. Also, if a mod isn't up for being abused or dealing with salty players in general, it's not something they should be doing. We're on the internet, after all.

Over the years I've played PG, I don't think there's been an instance where I've outright disagreed with any action taken by staff (that I know about) - but it does help to have clear-cut rules for players (I.e. you broke this rule, you're being banned for this long for this reason).

This plays into the whole "alpha", though. Game rules can be tweaked based on the actions of the players throughout the testing phase - I'd expect new rules to be added and changed as certain 'events' unfold throughout the alpha.

As for bias, the best way to eliminate that (i.e. people siding with friends) is to have several people collaborate on bigger issues and reach a decision as a group. Though, again, mods should be working exclusively with the rules that are set regardless of who's involved.

So far, I think moderation overall has been pretty damn fair, all things considered. I know a few players who were genuinely nice people who've been banned for perfectly legitimate reasons.

If players are moderating, though, it's usually better they keep that to themselves and play per usual on their normal account, and moderate anonymously on another account/alias, just to avoid unnecessary drama & to stop people constantly poking them to do stuff whenever they encounter the slightest problem.

But yeah, as you said, Khay, the current moderating has been perfectly fine in my opinion so I don't really see any need for immediate change.

[Crissa]

It's better for staff to be players than not at all. Of course, they probably shouldn't be playing with their moderator character or moderating with their playing character, but...

They should eat the dog food, so to speak.

[rastaah]

I wonder how games like Dragonrealms and Ponyisland do it then because their whole entire staff save a couple admin people are volunteer :) Not sure how that is done other than with Ponyisland they are run out of a different country. DR though is from Missouri....so has to abide by US labour laws.

not sure what they do but it most certainly works. DR is still here all these years later. (been there since something like 95 on AOL)

[Crissa]

I don't know how they're organized. Ponyisland isn't generating a profit. And compliance is based upon complaints, it's not like there are government agents sniffing around to tell you that you're doing it wrong. You can be in noncompliance for a long time before someone notices or cares or sues you. It's not a defense.

Just saying that you have to be careful about how the structure is set up.

[rastaah]

I am not sure why you would say Ponyisland does not make money but you must know something I don't :) However Simutronics is an actual functioning company who's Devs are volunteers along with all Mods/mentors etc.

It is not something that has to get done here of course just a note that it can be done. Just notes :) Take them or leave them .

[Crissa]

profit ≠ money. Profit is the value above and beyond expenses.

In the real world, pointing as someone else and saying, 'well they do it!' is not a legal argument. Ignorance of the law isn't much of a defense.

[rastaah]

Well that is not what I was doing, however I was offering up 2 valid examples to make my previous point :) I was not in any way, shape or form saying "Looky they do it'. :)

I was saying "Here are 2 valid examples of 2 profitable gaming companies that use Volunteers almost exclusively to run their games including Dev's and GM's. Sure they get in game perks but then again the people playing those games are mature, grateful for the volunteers and would never dream to complain they get something that others don't.

And they don't get much.

And for clarification Ponyisland is owned by a guy in Hong Kong and to my knowledge does make a profit (or maybe its Vietnam anyway he's far away) and Simutronics (St. Louis Missouri) always made a profit if they are not now it is simply because the times are changing and MUD's are not all they used to be as people prefer graphics now.

This game is about as close as you can get to a MUD without actually playing one though which is why the parallel lines for me sometimes.