Update Discussion: March 20, 2020

[Sims]

The update notes are here: https://forum.projectgorgon.com/showthread.php?2470-Update-Notes-March-20-2020

Discussion is in this thread! But please remember to report any bugs through the in-game reporting system so we can track them.

[poulter]

Initial feedback: Monster difficulty has significantly increased. Risk of dying significantly increased.

Build: Fire /Druid Molten Veins /Brambleskin thorns level 80+
Gear: Level 80 max crafted gold with augments and customised mods

Areas:
Dark chapel - no difference noted

Gazluk Worg cave - before this patch could cast MV & BS and let 5+ mobs kill themselves. Risk of dying was very low.
Today, had to use a healing spell plus Fire Breath or I died.

When fighting a group of:
1 to 3 mobs - no change
4 mobs - had to use Healing Sanctuary
5+ mobs had to use HS, Energise and Fire Breath to survive

Maximum continuous pull /train of 7 mobs achieved (2 + 3 + 2) and killed with very low risk of death.


Fairy Realm:
Non-elite group of 5 pulled and easily killed - mix of panthers and bears, but did die to a group of 2 bears and a bee.
No difficulty otherwise. Note: Used full set of spells to do so i.e. actively attack, rather than passively wait and let thorns kill them.
Elites not attempted yet.

Marrowchomp- Previously was able to solo him, but after this patch, could hardly put a dent in him - due to Thick skin and Regeneration I think.

Tried 3 skill combos- Fire /Druid, Unarmed /Psychology and Mentalism /Psychology - all failed, but Fire did momentarily reduce his health bar.

[Glythe]

Super Fireball deals +40% damage and reuse timer is -1 second, but generates 50% more total Rage" => "Super Fireball deals +90 damage and reuse timer is -1 second"

That's an incredibly huge nerf to super fireball damage. I have no problem with it being changed as it was very likely too high but now this mod goes to the 'do not use' category. Would an intermediate step down to say 20% not have been better? Changing 50% to +90 is a mountain of change in terms of desirability/balance. The good change here is the removal of the extra rage as one super fireball with that mod could rage mobs a group of people were fighting.

On that note can we get some revision for fire magic? It seems like it has way too many mods - most of which are complete garbage.

Let's only look at the head mods. For background sake most fire users have on their bar something like : fireball, calefaction, super fireball, firebreath, molten veins and either ring of fire/defensive burst. That is a nearly ubiquitous fire setup once you get to a point in the game where you know what you are doing and start to choose the mods on your gear (unless you are doing fire/ice and then you go all ice).

Terrible mods that almost nobody uses for head slot include:

Fire Walls deal +53 damage per hit (nearly zero +50 is still nearly zero) [could we get firewalls reworked or removed from the game?]
Frostball, Scintillating Frost, and Defensive Chill grant +10 Direct and Indirect Cold Protection for 10 seconds (pure fire mages do not use any cold)*
Frostball slows target's movement by 25% and deals +16 damage (*)
Flesh to Fuel restores +62 Armor (too little armor to matter - damage is better)

Room-Temperature Ball Damage +72% (nobody used this previously because base damage was half of super fireball and because sfb/fb mod synergy)

This mod is chosen by some people but you need to pay attention to its use:

Scintillating Flame and Molten Veins boost your Core Attack Damage and Epic Attack Damage +39 for 15 seconds

The good remaining mods are :

Fire Magic Base Damage +40%
Ring of Fire Damage +32%
Calefaction Damage +52%
Molten Veins Response Damage +57


'Fairies gain a fae-only version of Recall Beginnings when they reach Fae Racial 24. It's like the level 20 Teleportation recipe except that it costs a Fairy Dust and doesn't need an amethyst.'

This is nice I suppose - but completely not necessary. What player would not carry amethysts? Take the portal to sunvale when you die and cast recall circle to reach your bind.

After using all the teleports outside of gazluk I got to 19 teleport with the help of a few mushroom circle teleports. After training with Ratuk I had some new teleport spells to cast for xp and easily got to 20 teleportation for recall beginning. My fairy is only level 30 in two new classes (not the ones you get 'for free').


Physics-Exploit Fixes

Does this include if the monster has something it can hit - such as a pet? Or will the target turn on 'anticheese' if you are unhittable?

[Niph]

Marrowchomp- Previously was able to solo him, but after this patch, could hardly put a dent in him - due to Thick skin and Regeneration I think.

I confirm that Marrowchomp now has extreme regeneration, and you probably need a group to kill it (it gives Notoriety).

[Ranperre]

Fire Magic change isn't that bad, right? Admittedly, I've been on a prolonged break so I dont remember exactly what I was hitting for, but I did the math and came out to -100 on super fireball and +300 on ring of fire. Fair tradeoff since you should be using fire for AOE vs single target. I think the negative effect comes from the fact that direct damage bonuses (crafted ring, masquerade mask) have a smaller effect now.

[Glythe]

Fire Magic change isn't that bad, right? Admittedly, I've been on a prolonged break so I dont remember exactly what I was hitting for, but I did the math and came out to -100 on super fireball and +300 on ring of fire. Fair tradeoff since you should be using fire for AOE vs single target.

My level 70 set which was made before numerous fire changes (cant wear the 80 just yet) had my firebreath hitting for over 1700 and my fireball just below that. I lost at least ~450 damage on my super fireball.

Correct me if I am wrong but is the design supposed to be that you use AoE spells on single targets? Would it not make more sense for aoes to be better power wise for groups and single target hits better for solo monsters?

[poulter]

Fire Magic is still 'good', especially if fighting 3 or 4 mobs at once, but with all the recent changes, I would consider it now to be 'mediocre' in performance compared to other skills, whereas it used to be my 'go-to' spec.

I have recently tried fire with ice, priest, druid and battle chemistry (in gold max-crafted, auged & modded gear). All performed well, but none have been outstanding and I have effectively 'retired' my fire magic specs.

[Lustalia]

Hi there, I'd like to share my thoughts and concerns having been playing as a faerie since they came out. While I am super appreciative that they have been added and gotten some much needed bug fixes last night, I still think they could use a few more adjustments because right now it's more punishing to play them than enjoyable long term.

While the Faerie Anchor is absolutely needed being forced to do daily quests in order to get more while helpful shouldn't be the only way to get them if they can't be made a permanent item. They should also be able to be crafted with the Faerie Racial skill as an unlock at maybe level 20 Faerie Crafting using 20 Ice Crystals and 40 Faerie Energy or so. Being in the middle of a dungeon and forgetting to grab one wastes the entire groups time if we die and have to go back to the dungeon we were at. Often times mobs ignore much higher level players and b-line directly past them to my Faerie and chow on me until death even if I'm just standing there playing a healing song, we seem to draw a massive amount of agro from every mob in sight.

Getting sent back to the entrance of a dungeon is an annoying but enjoyable punishment for dying but when it complied with everything running directly towards you even without taunt mods plus having to have 50 Faerie Energy, plus being sent back to the Faerie realm, plus needeing 10 pieces of gear to break PLUS having to fly all the way back in my opinion is just too many punishing mechanics piled on all at once.

I understand they're the first advanced race and you want them to have certain mechaincs that make them feel unique but as it is right now so many punishing mechanics piled on top of each other just to have level 30 in a certain handful of skills and the ability to fly doesn't seem equal to me.

Hopefully there can be some slight adjustments to make it not so punishing to play as one.

Thanks for hearing me out! :)

[Glythe]

I still think they could use a few more adjustments because right now it's more punishing to play them than enjoyable long term

I was shocked to learn with this patch that the fairy anchor was not a permanent item. It costs 50 energy to bind and is an expendable item.... that's too much. Either limitation would be fine; you can only get a few anchors per day (bank space is also limited) and the energy limitation would mean you would not be able to bind all the time either.

This part of the mechanic is so convoluted I plan on skipping it entirely; or maybe I will try and take advantage of the broken nature of of the anchors and start selling them for 10k each in my shop.

I prepared for the unlock of the fae race in ways most people could not : full pocket gear with +150 hp bonuses, day nearly 2 ~75% unlocked inventory from all the storage npcs in the game, a full set of gear perfectly rolled and ready once I hit 50, friends to run me through the daily - with rez, and maybe a little power leveling on the side.


I can imagine someone playing a fairy without all these advantages would be miserable. In a number of ways it reminds me of days long past playing pg before the casino was part of the game. I used to have a negative review of PG on steam because you would get to a point in the game and reach an invisible iron wall. You had no real way to get money and are supposed to know how to start transmutation and augmentation without any prompt. By level 50 the game difficulty ramps up to where you are weak if you have just 'randomly rolled' gear with many wasted mod slots. At that point in time the game to me felt like a 4/10 for a solo player. It was neat at first but I eventually reached a point where I did not want to play anymore.

I have since reversed my PG review as I think the game has come a very long way since then. I can only hope the fairy gets a lot less negative too.


I would consider it now to be 'mediocre' in performance compared to other skills, whereas it used to be my 'go-to' spec.

I have recently tried fire with ice, priest, druid and battle chemistry (in gold max-crafted, auged & modded gear). All performed well, but none have been outstanding and I have effectively 'retired' my fire magic specs.

If fire is mediocre to you I wonder what you would say is outstanding? Personally I do not think fire deserves the negative treatment it is getting; the burn damage change especially seemed shocking because everyone knows damage over time effects are not as good as direct front loaded damage.

[poulter]

I don't consider there to be any 'outstanding' combos any more - for use in FR, but there are combos that deliver more utility, survivability, similar damage profiles, etc.

It's a matter of personal preference (& no answer is 'right'), but I got better results (in FR) at least before the last patch, with Unarmed or Archery combos and Trauma damage seems to be quite effective in FR.
e.g.
Unarmed /Psychology Evasion /Triple stun build with Headbutt (for fire DOT)

Archer with Druid, Mentalism or Bard - with Archery modded for AOE or Single mob killing with FireArrow.

I also carry 3 sets of gold max-crafted, augmented & modded gear so I can swap to whatever combo is most effective against the mobs.

[Glythe]

Is it intended that non fairy can learn : fae racial magic from a hangout?

[alleryn]

Is it intended that non fairy can learn : fae racial magic from a hangout?

No clearly this is a bug:



Fae Racial Skill
Lastly, there is a new racial skill for fairies, representing things that only fairies can do.

[Citan]

Yep, it's a bug that non-fae can get access to the Fae racial skill. Even though they can only access the first few levels of the skill, it's still too much, and we'll be wiping it completely for non-fae -- all levels and associated recipes and rewards will be revoked in the next update.

[Glythe]

I just wanted to make sure it was a bug. I assumed so but you cannot always live on what you think you know.


I doubt you have any plans to make fairy anchors permanent - could they be a repeatable 4 hour quest? Could we maybe have a 'pity' one that one of the npcs gives you if you do not have one in inventory/storage (maybe on a 24 hr cooldown)?

I think I have died twice on my fairy accidentally. I am not asking for these changes for me btw but someone who could not prepare like I did for their arrival. I ask for these changes in part so that fairy anchors do not get sold in the marketplace.

I know you did not want newer/low level players to make a fairy and 'get ahead' but that is exactly what happened in some cases. I would hate for someone to stop playing the game because they were having a hard time as a fairy.

[Mbaums]

Physics Feedback:
In Rahu, the troopers on Pasks Hill appropriately heal themselves when they can’t hit me. But I thought their chase distance seems a bit extreme now. When not trying to break stuff, I got into a fight with some Evil Shopkeepers and pulled too many, flew away to a mountain, regenerated out of combat, phlogged, took my time and then returned—ooooh my god! I had 6 rakkies waiting for me! This was a PITA. I guess it’s a player knowledge thing, which the chase-distance-to-forget and the more usable Y axis where the monster must travel so-many-meters distance before they forget about the player make for some tricky situations. But I wouldn’t mind if “monster can’t reach target for X seconds, and does not move --> monster gives up”. My solution might make tanks locking monsters behind walls with pathing in GK more common though.


In Kur, by where Fluffy spawns, an Urak was stuck in a rock and after killing it in a 2 urak vs me extravaganza, I received the Derva intervened message (where Derva saved the monster, healing it to full). I think it’s such a rare occurrence that it got stuck in a rock, that it’s fine. But neat to see the message!

[Ranperre]

I found mobs in GK agroing me from behind a wall. In the past, you could walk up to a door from one side then look around the corner into the hallway - now they agro based on radius, walls be damned. I'd imagine this makes the zone WAY WAY harder for newbie groups because it's nigh impossible to avoid 2-3 mobs at once in some places. Is this intentional?

[Niph]

The same is true in Goblin dungeon. I'll report it in game.

[Glythe]

Physics Feedback:
In Rahu,

I guess it’s a player knowledge thing, which the chase-distance-to-forget and the more usable Y axis where the monster must travel so-many-meters distance before they forget about the player make for some tricky situations. But I wouldn’t mind if “monster can’t reach target for X seconds, and does not move --> monster gives up”. My solution might make tanks locking monsters behind walls with pathing in GK more common though.


Could we maybe adjust the mob chase routine a bit for Z plane distancing? I can fly up on top of houses in Rahu and the mobs really want to get you for longer than seems necessary when they have no line of sight and/or no way to possibly get you. It is kind of exploity that you can unload some nukes with a long refresh timer then fly up to safety and engage the mobs again when your timers have (mostly) reset.

Suggested change : make mobs give up sooner based on Z plane cannot reach you status.

Speaking of rahu and mob avoidance... is it intentional that flying ignores pin? Flying also seems to avoid all root effects (ranalon stone shapers). I understand flying avoiding root effects as you are not touching the ground. But if someone hits your wing it should be just as slowing as a hit to the foot in my humble opinion.

Suggested change: make fly speed be affected by pin effects (maybe some super special boss you have in the future - like a wicked giant spider will have a root effect that also affects flyers).

[Glythe]

I have talked to numerous people and everyone I spoke with is in agreement: we are all getting more "off class" gear.

In other words I am getting a great deal more gear for the classes not equipped. If this is an intended change I hate it (as does everyone I spoke to). It is beyond frustrating to get a yellow 2 class item (instead of just 1 class item) in the FR and have it be for classes you have never played.

For three nights in a row at least one person in the FR group got half of their yellow drops as junk gear they never could/would equip. These numbers are not a small change but rather a huge one.

Can we please reverse it?

[Citan]

There haven't been any changes to how loot is generated that I'm aware of. I'll review it, but I don't see anything obvious that may have creeped in. Randomness is streaky though, so it's difficult to get a picture from a handful of data points. One thing to keep in mind is that the skills are determined independently of the item's rarity, so you should keep track of the total number of inaccurate items, not just the ones that are really high rarity. If you got 50 blues and greens with correct skills and 4 yellows with wrong ones... that's just bad luck.

Anyway, I'll look further for any weirdness that may have creeped in, but there haven't been intentional changes in that system.

(Also important to know: loot-dropped augments do NOT use the same system and are MUCH more likely to be for random skills.)

[Mbaums]

I mistakenly posted something in the wrong thread and can't delete it, lol. I might as well edit this to include my 2c.
I only notice wrong-skills on yellows. For yellows, it usually comes in 1 skill I'm using + endurance. But I don't know if thats because endurance items have increased rarity. I think the skill issues that I've seen just have 1 skill off instead of 2 skills off.
Zone wise, this was seen in GK vs elites. I have not noticed this issue vs solo monsters.