Update Discussion: October 17, 2019

[Sims]

The update notes are here: https://forum.projectgorgon.com/showthread.php?2286-Update-Notes-October-17-2019

Discussion is in this thread! But please remember to report any bugs through the in-game reporting system so we can track them.

[Tagamogi]

When you right-click an inventory item and choose "More Info", there is new information shown. The "Find" tab now lists vendors who sell the item in their "Buy New" tab, and barterers who trade for the item in their "Barter" area. This only lists permanent ways to obtain the item, so it can't search the "Used" tab of vendors, nor does it search player-hired vendors, etc. But if you've ever wondered "which vendor in town sells nails?" you can now check under More Info.

Very nice! I've run into a few situations before when my spreadsheet failed and I couldn't figure out who sold what I needed. This will be a great help!

Of course, I'd like the ability to find which vendor will buy an item too. :D



Sour Cream now stacks to 5

Overpowered! Absolutely overpowered! I love it.



The "Icy Feet" debuff used by Battle Chemistry's Toxin Bomb was intended to reduce movement speed by 75% (as indicated in effect description), but actually reduced it by 100%. "Icy Feet" is also used by various monsters and traps, so the fix applies there as well

Um - Toxin Bomb has an "icy feet" debuff? Was this supposed to be Freezing Mist here, or did I miss something important about Toxin Bomb? (Yes, I could try it, but I'm still an hour plus from being able to log into the game and I can't possibly wait that long to post.)

If it's icy mist that kind of worries me because I've been using that freeze to slow down the game to a pace I can react to, since it allows me to step back and think. Maybe I'm just a snail, but that was possibly the most important aspect of bc to me. (I'm not saying it's a horrid nerf, just giving my personal "yikes" reaction as a special bonus while asking about toxin bomb vs freezing mist.)

[alleryn]

Yeah it's gotta be freezing mist. That's a major nerf to BC/Shield bulids which used to be able to rely on Freezing Mist+Fight Me You Fools to freeze and then knock back melee enemies, giving time to heal, restore power, wait for cooldowns, etc. It often gave me time to just get in a second toxin bomb (coming off cd) to win the fight. Allowed to tank probably +50% more mobs at a time.

I suppose even with just the 75% slow it could work, but would be a lot more tedious/dangerous having to kite, and before it would work even if the player was completely surrounded.

[Tagamogi]

Yeah, Freezing Mist was a really nice ability. Even without using Shield, it was nice to get a little break to heal and wait on cooldowns.

To be fair, I also used Freezing Mist for totally overpowered stuff like freezing a group of mobs that would otherwise kill me, bombing them with all available bombs and then laughing at them while they slowly fire-dotted to death while I remained just out of range. But for a 45 second cooldown, it doesn't really seem like that that's bad.

Kiting seems like it might be able to work instead. It's just that the game already feels a lot like enemies hit you so fast and hard, all you can do is try to hit them faster and harder before you die, nevermind any other strategies or variation in ability use. Losing a tool that allowed me to slow things down a bit to do other stuff is a shame.

Edit: Oh, and I did finally log in to try it, and it's indeed freezing mist. The slow is actually pretty nice and you can stay out of range of the slowed mob reasonably well, except I think in a dungeon there's not really going to be room to do that.

[Ranperre]

BC didn't need a nerf, the cd should be decreased to allow you to use it more regularly (25-30s).

[Yaffy]

I think the BC nerf is fair. Freezing Mist being a 10 second AoE Root was ridiculously good, and it easily overshadowed Ice Magic's root. A 75% AoE slow is still incredibly good, it just means you need to back pedal so the mobs can't hit you rather than being able to stand still and do anything you want. (Also thank god the nerf affects mobs as well.)

Some of the Bat changes are pretty funny. The Confusing Double buffs in particular are pretty hilarious in that you can summon an army of bats very often, probably making Giant bat the spammiest summoner in the game now. I'm not sure about their ability to actually taunt enemies because of pet taunt being very finnicky, but I could see confusing double adding a lot of damage over time. The mods on it scale very well because of the extra clones so I think any well geared bat will definitely want to run it for a lot of extra damage. These clones give you a ton of easily replaceable bodies too, so they could be excellent for grinding weak trash. Furthermore Bat has a lot of trauma DoTs now, so that's probably the route to take with Bat now.

The Warden skill is a little weird. It's got a lot of elemental damage, especially electric, so it's kind of like an animal mage skill. It has a very varied tool set including taunts, thorns, debuffs, buffs, etc, but doesn't really look like its kit is well rounded. To me it mostly looks like mix between DPS and debuff support, focusing on lightning damage. The thorns ability looks pretty interesting, especially the power regeneration part, but that's mostly for soloing. I'm guessing the idea is mostly to play another skill as your "Main skill" and then build Warden as a secondary to it, just taking what you want off of it to fit your "Main" skill set. Basically it's like a toolbox skill where you just take what you need from it.

[Sheawanna]

Have not leveled past the first spell :P or played around with warden but agree with Yaffy on the skill . as for bat Confusing double is not so funny nor as good as we had it prior :) For one we gave up all our electricity to only have it given to the Warden new skill :) (shouldering gaze so lovely with electricity {shame} Rather they did away with our slashing . ) .
simply a personal opinion . I am okay dealing with the changes but Confusing double roflmao not so funny .


Edit few hours later : Going to try out the warden electricity because I miss my smoldering gaze (electricity) . but darn it I am a mentalist already have it . just wanted my extra :P now I have to give up what I had . When I had it prior to patch .. hmm now I'm laughing cause no matter what I choose I'm losing my electricity :P or some of it lmao .. Okay Eric shame on you .. but Bless you and jack for making That racist cow speak to all scary animals . So here's to Jack and Eric and maybe that Cow :P

Hmm interesting Yaffy as I am mental/bat which I always considered to be a mage /bat what with all those electricity/and yes other mods :) . now I need to be a Warden/bat to play what I already been playing for many years . having mental/batty breakdown will recover soon :P

OMG double edit : I forgot we gave up all our sonic :cries a large flooding fae river or maybe I will cry enough to flood the entire statehood :P


Third edit : after playing with Bat/Ment past few days and remod'ing few items hmm plays about same no increase nor less ( still lots immune to nature but with the added trauma its equals out ) . I do think With the Added Warden skill it can help certain animals out with what they might lack in their abilities ..

[cr00cy]

Ok, just from looking at aviable abilites, and checking mods on Gorgon Explorer, I must say Warden looks interesting. I don't think it can be used as 'main' skill, but rather as support, to round up other animlas skills. As werewolf, ranged elemental attacks, as well as pull sounds interesting, and something I'll definitly will try out. Would be nice if it ha dmore defensive options, but we will see how it plasy out.

[Figger1]

The first quests are messed up, the 4 delivery quests. One player said he planned to do Trekker last and when he finished the 3rd delivery, the package for Trekker disappeared so he went back to Tangle and got credit for all of them.
I did Trekker first and the package stayed in my inventory when I talked to him, so I gifted it to him, then I went to Amulna in Ilmari and when I talked to Lumpfuzz, the package disappeared and same with Norbert and Suspicious cow when I talk to them. So I went back to Tangle and got credit for 3 deliveries but not Trekker and then it gave me Trekker's package back and gave me another delivery quest but it was to deliver it to Lumpfuzz in Ilmari. So I delivered it and went back to Tangle and got credit for it. Then I had to figure out to pick the option with Milton "I am up to speed" in order to finally get the skill and learn the first spell.
Then after doing a few more quests, I decided to try out that first spell, like maybe I would get more spells from leveling up and then looked to see how much more experience I would need to go up a level and noticed that I was at level 30. Strange !

[Coglin]

I just want to say that adding the Bard specific leather armor AFTER the transmutation event is just plain MEAN....................

[Dibbuk]

What is this "Warden" ability? I checked the patch notes and I did not see anything about it. Am I looking in the wrong place?

[alleryn]

Also is the appearance of this Warden skill somehow related to the (temporary) disappearance of Kremmu the Warden.... ?

[Niph]

What is this "Warden" ability? I checked the patch notes and I did not see anything about it. Am I looking in the wrong place?

Sometimes, new features are not mentioned in patch notes, and left as a surprise.

[Mbaums]

Double nerf on Bat!

I USED to be able to handle stuff in Kur tower at 50 Bat but now I am lucky to live 1-on-1 with Preserved Corpses.
Loss of Sonic and having most skills changed to Nature means that MANY monsters laugh at you with your attacks.

I just got gang teamed by Animal camp crystals and Red wouldn't talk to me as a Bat...could have sworn 3 hours was over 2 hours ago OR there is a problem.

JACK Mega Spider has got me thinking of quitting the game. Have to click on something that is bouncing too fast to see. Can't target because he is a player. Gives no loot. When you die you lose focus on him. Need I say more?????????

After Jack and getting wiped in seconds at Animal camp, I am seriously thinking of quitting the game. BAT was the first step in this though, I love to do every skill but the seriously underpowered ones where you can not find skills you need (HINT BAT) and inability to collect the needed skill drops...over a year and yet to get confusing double 1 let alone most other dropped skills

I have not tried bat with mods yet, but bat looks actually a lot stronger with mods. I think its the only skill that has one ability that can do two types of damage dots, trauma and nature. There were no real synergies with bat before, but I think bat+warden can go a long way. I wouldnt write off bat after the first day, but you will need to be aware of immunities.

[cr00cy]

Ok, I'm still leveling Warden (lv 60 atm), I already love the skill, and all thanks to one ability - pull. Its SO GOOD to be able to drag ranged mobs to me, without having to run to them, being mauled along the way by they buddies. I'm not sure how strong Warden/Wolf combo will be with proper gear, but I have good feelings about it.

Also, Warden alerts are awesome, I really like how they are implemented. Out of all skill-specyfic content (Druid emergencies/Warden alerts/wolf altar quests), IMO this is best system.

[Dibbuk]

Sometimes, new features are not mentioned in patch notes, and left as a surprise.

Still doesn't tell me anything about what a warden is, or where to go about looking for this "surprise".

[cr00cy]

Still doesn't tell me anything about what a warden is, or where to go about looking for this "surprise".

Warden is new skill, for animal players. You need to talk with Red in Kur, Suspicious Cow in Etibule or Norbert in Sun Vale to begin quets chain that allows you to unlock it. And I think you need to raise favor with them firts.

[alleryn]

Oh, so it was in the patch notes after all: "There's also some fun new stuff for animals in this update. Animals, if you're friends with the Suspicious Cow in Eltibule, Norbert in Sun Vale, or Red in Kur Mountains you should pay them a visit."

[Dibbuk]

Oh, so it was in the patch notes after all: "There's also some fun new stuff for animals in this update. Animals, if you're friends with the Suspicious Cow in Eltibule, Norbert in Sun Vale, or Red in Kur Mountains you should pay them a visit."

I am soul mates with both Red and Suspicious Cow. Spoke to both, and saw nothing new, and no new favors.
I'll talk with Norbert later tonight.

I spoke to them in deer form.

[Sheawanna]

Dibbuk are you druid perhaps ? if so need to be in animal form for 3 hours . they want to make sure your really a true animal and not some wanna be bird(druid) form :)

[Figger1]

should there be Yeti and Razorslash panthers in Red's camp and too many of them between Syndra and Red's camp. Also an area near orc camp there used to be many panthers and a few orc but now it is many orc and a few panthers. I am a bat and have to kill the defenses in Red's camp in order to talk to Red or Mittens, now I have to kill Yeti and razorslash panthers too.

[Oxlazr]

Not specifically related to the patch, but it does bring to light an on-going issue with new skills -

Will they ever have a higher base level? For example, the new top secret combat skill could viably start at 30 and require more experience to level beyond that point as a trade-off.

Just seems like a way to let new skills be used from the get-go without having to worry about establishing lower level ranks for abilities.

[cr00cy]

Not specifically related to the patch, but it does bring to light an on-going issue with new skills -

Will they ever have a higher base level? For example, the new top secret combat skill could viably start at 30 and require more experience to level beyond that point as a trade-off.

Just seems like a way to let new skills be used from the get-go without having to worry about establishing lower level ranks for abilities.

Actually... Warden DO start at lv 30. I didn't checked when I got it, but considering that the first ability that you recive as soon as you learn this skill require a lv 30 to use, I'd say that this is the case.

And yes, i complelty agree that some secret/harder to get skills should start at a higher lv. Examples: Druid and BC.

[Vish]

should there be Yeti and Razorslash panthers in Red's camp and too many of them between Syndra and Red's camp. Also an area near orc camp there used to be many panthers and a few orc but now it is many orc and a few panthers. I am a bat and have to kill the defenses in Red's camp in order to talk to Red or Mittens, now I have to kill Yeti and razorslash panthers too.

its because of emergency warden quest from Red
Probably

[Silkt]

should there be Yeti and Razorslash panthers in Red's camp and too many of them between Syndra and Red's camp. Also an area near orc camp there used to be many panthers and a few orc but now it is many orc and a few panthers. I am a bat and have to kill the defenses in Red's camp in order to talk to Red or Mittens, now I have to kill Yeti and razorslash panthers too.

I also think the Kur mob density increase as well as the overall placement increase is way over the top. All the previously safe fireplace areas in Kur should have a no spawn area around them the same as portals should have, this should also include mobs that have chased a target and then lose it should return to their spawn location not just remain hovering at the doorway causing deaths before you actually spawn in. Also have these mobs as chain stun is potential rage quit scenario, going through a portal to find yourself stunned and half dead or worse before you show on the screen is absolute crap.

This game has so much pointless travel needed getting to and from storage or specific vendors that their should at least be a relatively safe transit path through the edges of zones that are not single entrance/exit areas.

[Deldaron]

I love the warden experience - the flavor of the quest and NPCs, the dailies, the skills. I recently leveled it to 80 (not incredibly focused on gear yet) and want to mostly address Warden.

Misc:

I like that it starts at lvl 30 - this has some interesting nuances in that you're in lvl 30 areas with only one skill available, you can't use it's lowest skills in combination with a lvl 1 skill, shorter path to 50+. I like the daily quests particularly the ones that change the zone - Illmari are by far my favorite for this reason.

Sacred Grotto:

Not sure it was intended that Rubi and Cassie don't accept gifts after the first favor level upgrade - this "talk to me once a day for 30+ days" mechanic is interesting. I'm not sure it adds much - I expected after 10 days I would open up gifting or something else to do with them, but it looks like I have 20 more days to see if it changes at the next tier.

I object that I can't mushroom farm in the grotto which _clearly_ has water, but I understand it would probably crowd the cave so I'm fine to keep going to wolf cave.

Combat Skills:

Adding two AoE available to all animals was a huge boon - highly support this move and am very happy. AoE was something I know a lot of animal forms felt they missed out on so while this isn't BC more options are always welcome.

The grapple style skill, apprehend, is a lot more fun than I expected - offers surprising utility (clearly I haven't spent enough time on spider).

Coordinated Assault seems okay - a nice generic group boost with some nice speed mods to give animals another move buff. On the whole I feel like Warden is missing a support/utility skill or two to round it out. I don't see myself making use of 5 combat skills (counting privacy field as a combat skill since it has to be cast when CD pops for damage)

It looks like the mods for CD on Stun Trap and Lethal Force are broken as well as the mods for extra traps on Stun Trap. Haven't tested the others (Conditioning Shock and Controlled Burn via Apprehend)

Privacy Field - it's good, possibly too good. More at end.

Daily Quests:

Love these. I would love to see more of these and preferably not all kill 15 of x. That mechanic gets old quickly, but the fact that they cause different mobs to appear in areas is awesome!

The currency for training requiring you do these is nice. It's actually one of the cheapest and easiest skills to skill up for, slows you down a _little_ but I was able to get through 70 on favor and dailies alone at the same pace I was leveling and wasn't until recently that I had to wait (I was being selective on my skills I chose).

Privacy Field:

I wanted to talk a little bit about my experience with privacy field. Note: this is my first time doing a thorns build so I don't know if it's normal.

Context: Geared with lvl 70 purple leather crafted, some augmentation apply, no re-rolling, with a half attentive focus on privacy field. There was one specific mod I focused on which is the main hand weapon mod which requires purple rarity or higher: "Privacy Field also deals its damage when you are hit by ranged attacks, and damage is +x". I was nearing max foraging and decided I needed to pick up some lvls in pig, but didn't really have much interest in using it so figured I'd just power level it with warden. I started with 7 synergy lvls in pig so I was able to use warden right away without a need to lvl pig with another skill.

I flew through goblin keep, basement, kur tower, and then yeti cave with no problem. Going from lvl 1-35 (effectively 8-42) in an hour and a half. Now I know I was power leveling and that by definition is quick, but I wouldn't expect this kind of performance on suboptimal 70 gear.

Pig is a special case because I was able to use it's support skills to heal myself and just let mobs take dmg and I had bonus lvls so the xp requirements were lower. I repeated it with Deer where I had only 1 synergy lvl and no support skills. Deer took probably an hour longer, but I was also less focused.

The real key to this performance was that the thorns also hits ranged attackers. When thorns only hits melee you have to be careful still, but with 100% of attackers taking damage I could just walk around and look popping skills just often enough to maintain xp.

I've heard with optimal gear at 80 this skill is even more insane.

I love the skill and perhaps this kind of performance is as intended, but wanted to share this experience. Perhaps it would be better if the ranged attacker mod got swapped out, or the skill got switched to something like armor dmg with a chance to stun. Alternatively the issue is part of a greater issue that high lvl gear can be used to over power low level skills when power leveling.

I know power leveling isn't the ideal play style, but I think it's important for play testing - working on an 80 spring fairy set eventually, but my tool crafting has to catch up before I can comment on how this plays at end game.

[Citan]

Deldaron - thanks for the detailed feedback! I haven't made any substantive changes to the skill (or any other skill) for tomorrow's small update, but I did fix several loot effect bugs you mentioned.

If other players have Warden feedback I'd love to hear it!