Some Meaningful Level 70 Solo Content, Please?

[Clip]

This topic is hard to broach without being flamebait, but I'll try.

There's a "run GK or GTFO" feel to Project Gorgon when you get to level 70. It's the main reason I play the game less.

Part of it is kind-hearted practical advice, because there is no good alternate source of ring/amulet/main hand/offhand slot items. There's also an abrupt transition from 65, where a patient solo player can reasonably accumulate yellow items in every slot by adventuring, to level 70, where it's crafted or GK only for the worn slots.

Part of it is less benign. Some players like GK a lot and view any other options as a threat that could draw players away from their groups. Or maybe they have some (false) idea that letting other players have fun will somehow detract from their experience, and they argue that level 70 solo rewards, if added, should be nerfed relative to GK.

I know that to make that area an effective test bed for group combat, the game experience has to be tuned to challenge a geared group, and that the respawns have to be fast enough for force groups to keep moving. But for me, that's not fun at all, and for every level except 70, I was able to find other, slower paced, fun content, that still had a good enough chance for the RNG to give a yellow item that it felt worthwhile.

The War Caches proved that PG can deliver great content for all play styles, and you might get a yellow once every few dungeons. I know that we're only in a temporary period where 70 is the max, and new higher levels will have new zones, but that's a long time (possibly years) away.

When I come home, tired and already near my stress limit, committing to the mandatory time investment of a GK run usually isn't an option. (Even if I get lucky and one's even forming and they're willing to take me. It's not like I'm enough of a regular to get invites.) And since that's really the only place I can get a RNG roll for any top level gear, I just don't log into PG.

There's a lot more to it, like not wanting to be "carried" by much more powerful geared players. It was a harsh awakening when my first GK run (where I was useless relative to the others), resulted in half my gear being replaced. There's a huge power gap between geared/ungeared at 70, and few options to work through it without accepting charity.

Is there much hope for a player like me to build a set of gear? It's been ... 7 months of trying and failing at it now, because of the above challenges. I know I can get the worn slots with leatherworking, but that's only half a set.

(I waited a long time to post this. By now I've run all the dungeons during events, killed just about everything in the game, and put in 50-100 hours of farming the few pockets of level 70 solo-able mobs, including that corner of Windy Cave. I feel pretty certain that there's no secret I'm missing.)

[Silkt]

This post / sentiment has been expressed each time the game plateaus' out, it happened at 50 again at 60. I think its more a reflection of the painfully slow progress being made towards development of the game being zone and feature complete, armour and weapon smithing being 2 vitally lacking trades.

My personal solution has been to either play different skills or take a break from the game and play something different for a bit and come back refreshed when there is something new or the urge to play cow, bat or something different draws you back feeling refreshed.

[ErDrick]

This is part of the reason I have made several comments in the past about rahu plateau and how frustrating it is. This is one of the spots you can potentially solo for level 70 items, it's obviously slower then a lvl 70 dungeon and that's to be expected, but it's also extremely punishing to the point where even geared optimally unless you are using certain god builds, you will die every 2 minutes due to the insane amount of adds you get and the extremely punishing and unnecessary cc the mobs unleash upon you. The 90% movement speed reductions stacking on you to the point where there is literally nothing you can do to avoid the adds unless you are using bard or priest for instance. I should note however that if these mobs were considered elite it would help a lot, because then you could duo / trio and it would be worth it.

The other alternative is gazluk itself, and personally I say screw dealing with that (the cold effect is also overly punishing, I don't want easy mode but I don't want to feel like I'm playing ninja gaiden for nes either, aka wanting to throw a controller at the screen after a while).

Generally when I level up a new skill to 70 I try both of these places for a few hours then say screw this, and just craft some gear then do gk for the other slots, I completely get what you are trying to say here. A solo option shouldn't be as rewarding as a group option, but it shouldn't be as ridiculously deadly either.

The same is true for lvl 60 gear because your options are basically run around ilmari hoping when you attack that drakeworm there isn't actually 3 of them in that spot instead of the 1 you think you see, or rahu open fields where you get zero seconds to breathe or recover because the mobs are so densely packed.. although war caches have alleviated this to a huge extent ( good addition there).

I think toning down the environmental effects in gazluk ( and kur for that matter), and toning down the density and cc on the rahu plateau (or leaving them as is but tagging them as elites) would go a long way towards alleviating this issue for a lot of players. Also remove that stacking snare ability completely from general prask, why does he even have it? The one mob you absolutely have to run away from unless you have a group has an ability that makes it almost impossible to do so, alternately make him a static spawn on the side of the plateau that has almost no other mobs instead of a wandering "Surprise butt sex!" mob.

In all these example spots for gearing btw, the speed is already reduced because getting the top level drops from these mobs is already rare, you get like 10 level 60-65 drops to 1 lvl 70 drop on the plateau for instance, or thereabouts.

To some extent this is all still a function / extension of combat being too fast and furious (deadly) overall. I know I keep using this line but you kill and die as fast as in a twitch combat game where you are actually able to DODGE stuff to reduce the damage you are taking, except this is a tab-target game and those options are non-existant. On top of that the game doesn't really allow you to kite ( moving costs power) root rot, snare kite ( power and mobs gain immunity after the first root or snare) or pet tank ( pet tanking is still buggy as hell aggro wise, sometimes they don't follow your commands at all, and assist still doesn't work as it should work, aka your pet will guard you in assist mode instead of --waiting-- for you to attack, to assist you). These are traditional examples of how you can deal with this problem in other similar style games but not here, just more examples of why you shouldn't be potentially 4 shotted btw, because there are no tools to deal with that except for "4 shot the mobs yourself", aka "kill them before they kill you" aka what I have been saying for a few years now like a broken record or a parrot.

Not trying to be a complaining dick here btw, just trying to explain the situation as I see it! I am both a solo and group enthusiast so I know a little about both sets of issues.

[Niph]

If you're looking for a solo way to gear up to 70, crafted gear is the way to go. What you get with it will make you strong enough to fight everywhere but inside GK. But then, if you're inside, you get this group gear, so... :)

[Clip]

Thanks all!

So, assuming I like the game, the community, the admin events, and don't want to
take a break from the game, and I've realized that
crafted gear can only get you half a set (or 5/8 for staff users), and I also am
Not trying to be a complaining dick here, and I don't want the dev team to delay their awesome progress for this issue, here are some concrete suggestions for improvement that don't require new zones or major changes to existing mechanics.

Success criteria for easy-win changes:

not require new zones or mechanics
not take away from levels that are lacking in content
not create new elite level 70 mobs that need tuning for groups
let level 70 solo players get gear as good as groups at a reasonable pace, if slower.



Here are some low-cost rebalances that fix this issue in the short term:

1. Make Gaz City a Level 70 Area

This is an outdoor area, but has enough random fires to not be absurdly hostile like the rest of Gaz, as ErDrick noted. The mobs are a bit weaker than they should be at level 70, but rebalance them as non-elite L70 solo mobs, and you have a nice little area for fighting Orcs, with GK being the elite-for-groups area and the city being the solo-friendly non-elite area. Just don't make it an obnoxious mix of 65 and 70 like Rahu Plateau or Windy View Cave, and it'd work great. Just tune the difficulty and drop rate so that a low- to moderately- geared solo player can use it to build up a set of yellows or farm prisms and phlogiston to work on a build.

This has the added bonus of giving Level 70 players a reason to hang around Gaz in case a group needs them, or bump into each other naturally, form a group, and head into GK proper.

2. Make Windy View Cave Consistently Level 70

Windy View Cave, with its continual conga line of adds, is already plenty difficult to be level 70, but inexplicably, nearly all the mobs are 65. (Other than two heavily farmed corners.) The mummy section, with roots, disease infliction, and lamias, is absurdly over-difficult for 65. The whole cave should be consistently 70. There's a small number of chests to find, that should also be Level 70 to match the difficulty of the zone. (And because there's no solo-reachable level 70 chests in the game.)

3. Make No-Name Cave a Level 70 Area

No-Name cave is notable because many sections don't have ridiculous numbers of pathing mobs. (I know, no constant adds so you can actually get up and get a drink from the fridge. Crazy, right?) It needs a little bit more difficulty to justify being Level 70, but if tuned to that level, could give you a less frenetic alternative to Windy Cave. It also has four chests that would become relevant if increased to L70.


Areas to Not Change:

Amaluk Valley Cave: This area is already thick with players hunting for skins. No need to add to the crowds by also making it where you go for rings and amulets. Let the non-humanoid in No-Name cave serve that purpose.

Snowblood Shadow Cave: This zone already has a special purpose in being the home of the teleportation trainer. It shouldn't be made harder.

Rahu Plateau: Hear me out. ErDrick points out correctly that Rahu Plateau's mix of 65 and 70 makes it an utter waste of time to farm for gear. (And believe me, I've put in my hours single pulling there. It sucks.) But it is one of the few good places to try to get tattered books and magic sand. Given that, I think the absence of Level 70 areas is better served by rebalancing the ones listed above.


All told, those are pretty small changes to make the game playable solo. The Rahu Sewers and War Caches have been awesome additions for the 50-69 grind, and I think they take the pressure off the current level 65 areas, making them great choices to bump up to 70 and fill the void.

Thanks for reading!

[Coglin]

Personally, I don't think solo play should allow you to ever acquire gear remotely near the value of the gear you would get from group play. in my opinion there are solo play games out there made for that. I personally always dislike the notion that there should be some path for solo players in games designed around community and group play to allow players to solo and even come close to acquiring the same value in gear.

[Citan]

I actually thought most of those Gazluk caves were full of level 70 monsters already. It's unfortunately too late to adjust much for tomorrow's update, but I'll plan on making some changes there for the update after.

[Niph]

We can't speak about their level, but iirc they drop level 65 gear.

[Mbaums]

We can't speak about their level, but iirc they drop level 65 gear.

I think the wolf one used to be 70 then it got toned down to 65 along with the chests. The large undead-filled cave has a 60-half and a 65/70 half.
*edit*
checked some old patch notes, I think it was around the time of July 2017, but I cant find it mentioned. This would put it around the time they added Snow Oxen to outside in Gazluk.

[Niph]

I haven't adventured much in that 65/70 undead area (if it's the one I think it is), but I wouldn't recommend it as a solo experience. :)

[Daguin]

I haven't adventured much in that 65/70 undead area (if it's the one I think it is), but I wouldn't recommend it as a solo experience. :)

Ghosts / Mummies combo is KILLER! :rolleyes:

I always thought it weird that the various solo Gaz caves weren't dropping 70 gear, but pulling a yellow in there will still be quite rare compared to the constant loot train in GK. Everyone says they hate the environmental effects for fighting outside, but this seems mainly because the fire spots are few and far between (unless you carry your own). Consider adding a few more friendly warmup locations? If you have a little cold mit gear (and FM up) it's not horrible, but you have to constantly monitor your status and time your spells as you move which makes combat difficult to carry on for extended periods.

[ErDrick]

I think it's more a case of inventory being premium, rage to heats stack to 5, stuff like that. You don't want to waste 3 inventory slots and another 5 for 'special gear" that's probably not even optimal or even if it is has 300 less armor then your normal combat set.

It's not that you can't do it, it's that for the rewards of 1 usable item (after heavily transmuting it of course) for killing 50 mobs in that area ( assuming you don't need a gold item, or heaven forbid a specific gold weapon/ring/neck.. because if you do make that 600 mobs for one item most likely) it isn't worth the effort. Then when you add the inventory+annoyance factor to that it's pretty balls.

Also, not everyone enjoys crafting, crafting is kind of necessary to hunt in that area because the cold effect is incredibly punishing otherwise. I craft, but I hate crafting ( in every game I hate crafting I mean, I have no specific complaints about PG crafting aspects), I would 100% understand someone that does not craft at all. Crafting as an alternative is fine, crafting as a necessity is less cool.

By that I mean, if you can craft lvl 70 winter gear you wouldn't even really need to hunt in that area except for certain handheld or jewelry slots in the first place.

The problem is there is really no linear gear progression sans group for non-crafters, I think that was the original posters concern right?

Also with the removal of belts that determined your loot, you can't just say "use fire magic" because your drops are always going to be for fire magic if you do, that's not really helpful unless that's the exact skill you actually want. ( before belts were changed that would be valid advice though). And that applies to more then just this situation, the same deal for "use shield" in warcaches for ghosts, or whatever, applies. Belt changes removed all those options, because if you are running something like that for gear, you want gear for your current skillset.. not some gimmick skillset that you are just being forced into using just to complete the content.

Speaking of, the planned wipe of favor combined with no longer being able to wear belts to determine your drops is something I am REALLY not looking forward to in the future. There were definitely some unforseen consequences of changing that system that are going to suck fun away. I hope to -pick your deity- that when that happens they add more quests to those favor npc's, otherwise I cannot see myself doing it "again".

[Clip]

I actually thought most of those Gazluk caves were full of level 70 monsters already. It's unfortunately too late to adjust much for tomorrow's update, but I'll plan on making some changes there for the update after.

Wow. Yay!

As long as it's Christmas in Juneuary, here's my wishlist and why:


Hopefully make some of the chests level 70, because there's 0 solo reachable level 70 chests in the game right now. :(
Still hoping for a Level 70 bump for Gaz City, because for some reason the clothing/armor drop rate seems much higher on Orcs than on undead, and is effectively 0 on nonhumanoids. (Also, as others have pointed out, much of Windy View cave is really, really brutal. It's an acquired taste.)
Please minimize mixing level 70 with lower level mobs, because that effectively multiplies the number of mobs you have to wade through to get a RNG roll.


Thanks for looking at this!!!

[Clip]

Whoa! If level 80 content is imminent, then obviously level 70 solo content is a much less relevant concern. Level 80 solo farmable gear will very quickly become the goal.

https://twitter.com/GorgonMMO/status/1146191520304967681

Excited for the updates, regardless!

[overtyped]

This topic is hard to broach without being flamebait, but I'll try.

There's a "run GK or GTFO" feel to Project Gorgon when you get to level 70. It's the main reason I play the game less.

Part of it is kind-hearted practical advice, because there is no good alternate source of ring/amulet/main hand/offhand slot items. There's also an abrupt transition from 65, where a patient solo player can reasonably accumulate yellow items in every slot by adventuring, to level 70, where it's crafted or GK only for the worn slots.

Part of it is less benign. Some players like GK a lot and view any other options as a threat that could draw players away from their groups. Or maybe they have some (false) idea that letting other players have fun will somehow detract from their experience, and they argue that level 70 solo rewards, if added, should be nerfed relative to GK.

I know that to make that area an effective test bed for group combat, the game experience has to be tuned to challenge a geared group, and that the respawns have to be fast enough for force groups to keep moving. But for me, that's not fun at all, and for every level except 70, I was able to find other, slower paced, fun content, that still had a good enough chance for the RNG to give a yellow item that it felt worthwhile.

The War Caches proved that PG can deliver great content for all play styles, and you might get a yellow once every few dungeons. I know that we're only in a temporary period where 70 is the max, and new higher levels will have new zones, but that's a long time (possibly years) away.

When I come home, tired and already near my stress limit, committing to the mandatory time investment of a GK run usually isn't an option. (Even if I get lucky and one's even forming and they're willing to take me. It's not like I'm enough of a regular to get invites.) And since that's really the only place I can get a RNG roll for any top level gear, I just don't log into PG.

There's a lot more to it, like not wanting to be "carried" by much more powerful geared players. It was a harsh awakening when my first GK run (where I was useless relative to the others), resulted in half my gear being replaced. There's a huge power gap between geared/ungeared at 70, and few options to work through it without accepting charity.

Is there much hope for a player like me to build a set of gear? It's been ... 7 months of trying and failing at it now, because of the above challenges. I know I can get the worn slots with leatherworking, but that's only half a set.

(I waited a long time to post this. By now I've run all the dungeons during events, killed just about everything in the game, and put in 50-100 hours of farming the few pockets of level 70 solo-able mobs, including that corner of Windy Cave. I feel pretty certain that there's no secret I'm missing.)

What you want is the opposite of what makes this game attractive in the first place. If you want meaningful solo content go play world of warcraft, then u can sit in your hideout all day and wonder why you aren't having fun, and why the game isn't social anymore.

Suggestions like your's is what turned once good mmo's into single player themeparks.

[Lasc]

What you want is the opposite of what makes this game attractive in the first place. If you want meaningful solo content go play world of warcraft, then u can sit in your hideout all day and wonder why you aren't having fun, and why the game isn't social anymore.

Suggestions like your's is what turned once good mmo's into single player themeparks.

I dont normally post or get baited by replies like yours, But why is what he's asking the opposite of what makes this game attractive?
Why is asking for SOME solo content capable of yielding a (current) max level drop an issue?

Groupping & Dungeons simply accelerates the the gear/materials churn. The OP never asked to be decked out in yellows as a right of a soloer.
You seem to assume that everyone plays the game your way, and that Gazluk is and should be the only way forward for those whove attained the level cap.
Soloing will always be slower, soloers are always gated by things such as fewer funds to progress as fast as those who do grind dungeons.

Show me what the real issue is?

Show me where it states that PG is the game exclusive to players who want to dungeon grind. Im not sure what your playing, but PG has never been that to me.
Its a community focused 'sandbox' style game that appears intent at being inclusive of gamers generally. Not excluding based on any single particular style.


Suggestions like your's is what turned once good mmo's into single player themeparks.

So before getting on your high horse with statements this, why not consider and properly read what the poster is asking and ask yourself how the wider PG gaming community can benefit from his suggestion.

I certainly would welcome gamers of any sort to PG, not just the bleeding edge, nor the casual player. Be Inclusive.

[overtyped]

I dont normally post or get baited by replies like yours, But why is what he's asking the opposite of what makes this game attractive?
Why is asking for SOME solo content capable of yielding a (current) max level drop an issue?

Groupping & Dungeons simply accelerates the the gear/materials churn. The OP never asked to be decked out in yellows as a right of a soloer.
You seem to assume that everyone plays the game your way, and that Gazluk is and should be the only way forward for those whove attained the level cap.
Soloing will always be slower, soloers are always gated by things such as fewer funds to progress as fast as those who do grind dungeons.

Show me what the real issue is?

Show me where it states that PG is the game exclusive to players who want to dungeon grind. Im not sure what your playing, but PG has never been that to me.
Its a community focused 'sandbox' style game that appears intent at being inclusive of gamers generally. Not excluding based on any single particular style.



So before getting on your high horse with statements this, why not consider and properly read what the poster is asking and ask yourself how the wider PG gaming community can benefit from his suggestion.

I certainly would welcome gamers of any sort to PG, not just the bleeding edge, nor the casual player. Be Inclusive.

Anything that promotes solo play over group play is against the principles of what an mmo should be. There are plenty of single player games out there, he can just go play those, /can close thread now since i solved his problem.

[Lasc]

Anything that promotes solo play over group play is against the principles of what an mmo should be. There are plenty of single player games out there, he can just go play those, /can close thread now since i solved his problem.

Wrong. Clearly your delusional and simply looking to stir trouble.
Mmo. Massively Multiplayer online (game)

The phrase does not imply the cooperative activity. Simply it’s a game you play with others at the same time.
I don’t know you, your background, nor do I care to. But if you were to attempt to market a game in this day and age at pure cooperative play, in every sense, it’d fail.

Another thing, preaching that your opinion is correct in relation to PG is fundamentally incorrect anyway
You can craft max level gear from completely solo attainable materials. Check.
You can solo any and all callings, be it combat or crafting to max. Check.

By your narrow view, PG already doesn’t fit the narrative your pushing
Time to move with the times, the gaming worlds expectation and commitment has changed and moved on. Move with it and you might just enjoy things a bit more.

Let’s get this thread back on track

[overtyped]

Wrong. Clearly your delusional and simply looking to stir trouble.
Mmo. Massively Multiplayer online (game)

The phrase does not imply the cooperative activity. Simply it’s a game you play with others at the same time.
I don’t know you, your background, nor do I care to. But if you were to attempt to market a game in this day and age at pure cooperative play, in every sense, it’d fail.

Another thing, preaching that your opinion is correct in relation to PG is fundamentally incorrect anyway
You can craft max level gear from completely solo attainable materials. Check.
You can solo any and all callings, be it combat or crafting to max. Check.

By your narrow view, PG already doesn’t fit the narrative your pushing
Time to move with the times, the gaming worlds expectation and commitment has changed and moved on. Move with it and you might just enjoy things a bit more.

Let’s get this thread back on track

Since you can get everything with max crafting, why do you want to make the game easier?
Everyone these days wants everything handed to them, why can't we just have one mmo that isn't like that? GO ruin a different game.

[Greyfyn]

Hi Lasc and overtyped.

The game is good for both group and solo play. I hope it remains that way.

Also, the community is really great. Both of you can have your opinions. And the forum is an excellent place to express them, but please don't get sucked into a verbal pvp over your differing viewpoints. I'm hoping you'll stop there so no one has to close the thread.

Grey (volunteer guide and fellow player)

[Celler]

Have lost count how many times I've run the group play dungeons here, It is always fun making new friends and toughing it out together.

Would still say though to be honest my main fun is solo, either trying to solo bosses that are for lower lvl group play, or pushing my lame self around whatever content is available. I find solo farming for mats and raising less used and undergeared skills fun too.

For me I like choices and options the more the better, even if I don't use them others may well.

I agree with whats said above, just cause others are out there with you does not make it necessary to team up unless you want to.

Some like solo play, others are afraid they will screw up an hour run by doing something dumb, been there done that plenty.

Also telling others that the way they play is wrong and they should go elsewhere frankly sucks.
All play styles should be welcome.

[overtyped]

The success of this game has been catering to a niche audience who want hardcore mmo's, the type where you can't get endgame gear without cooperative play.

This game can't hold a candle to current mmo's in graphics and combat, so if they try to grab the casuals too they would be fighting with their weakness. They are a mom and pop crew, they cannot compete against mmo's with millions in funding.

If you were a fish, would you try to come onto land and fight it out with the lions and tigers?

If they cater to the soyboys who want everything given to them by playing single player, then they would be REDUCING THE ONLY AUDIENCE THIS GAME CAN GET.

If they did your idea, it wouldnt be the nail in the coffin, but it would be driving away their target demographic little by little.

PS: If on launch all mob hp and dmg was increased by 50%, it would be even more successful. If the game was even more horrific for casuals, it would only bring in more of the audience that are jaded by these loot box mmo's, which as i've pointed out IS PROJECT GORGONS ONLY POSSIBLE AUDIENCE.

[Lasc]

Overtyped, your right.
MMO's should all be exclusively co-op content. So the entire genre should follow this rule.
While we're at it, All RPG's should be like Baldurs Gate, All shooters like Wolfenstien, All RTS games like Warcraft or Age of empires, All city builders like Simcity.

Wouldnt the idea of this sort of approach to gaming work out great. Not boring at all.

/Sarcasm off

I really dont know how/what your doing in PG, but 85% of current gameplay IS SOLO. Where are you going that this isnt your activity?
EVERY overland/outdoor zone, rarely do you see people groupped.
Anyone gathering/farming materials is not doing so in a full group.
Even the 'caves' in gazluk are solo content save perhaps some areas of the 'mummy cave'
Even new content having been released....
War Caches were released - solo content
Rahu Sewers was released - solo content

Do you see a pattern here yet?
Harder group content may yet come, and that'd be great too. It gives people options.

Yet you continue to quibble over a single thread asking for some where, to provide a SMALL chance at delivering some level 70 drops, other than Gazluk Keep.
Have you been to Gazluk keep? Its a loot train. You've nothing to fear about a solo player out gearing you if your hitting this zone regularly.
The premise of this thread is a good idea, and brings more people to the nominated areas in 'downtime' of not doing dungeons, which guess what, will have a flow on effect to co-operative play.

Dont attack a person posting a legitimate idea all for your misguided ideology.
Play whats infront of you and enjoy what is.
Worry about what might be later, and if you have an idea post it and see how it floats.

[srand]

Well, this thread went off the rails.
overtyped: Please remember to keep things civil here. In particular, please stop insulting players like myself who appreciate playing solo content while connecting with a larger community.
Lasc: Don't feed the trolls.