Ghosts In War Cache F-4

[Figger1]

How do I kill the ghosts? Sir Johnson implies that you stun it first but I dont think there is a stun in Fire Magic, or is there? I am using fire magic and animal handling and I can barely hurt a ghost. I abandoned the F-4 quest and it keeps giving it back to me.

[ShieldBreaker]

It be tricky with that build but:

You got one hard to use Fire Mod:Scintillating Flame and Scintillating Frost stun and deal +100% damage to Vulnerable targets

What might be easier is if you can find a pet that stuns on their clever trick. Not sure which pet has that, but I have a hunch it would be a bear, if any.

[Jarlaxle]

How do I kill the ghosts? Sir Johnson implies that you stun it first but I dont think there is a stun in Fire Magic, or is there? I am using fire magic and animal handling and I can barely hurt a ghost. I abandoned the F-4 quest and it keeps giving it back to me.

use the sidebar ability stake the heart

[Speczero]

It has been awhile since I was on my AH character but according to the wiki If you have Graz(the bear from the goblin dungeon) he has a stun on his sic-em attack
this has a short 12 second cooldown. The other bears i saw had their attack on the clever trick which is a 30 sec cooldown.
So if you have Graz high enough level i would use him.

[ShieldBreaker]

use the sidebar ability stake the heart



I don't think that will work, it say in the description for Stake The Heart

"Corporeal undead are stunned."

ghost being Incorporeal it shouldn't work on them

[Tagamogi]

I just did that cache and it was brutal - the hardest cache for me yet. I left a fine collection of tombstones due to double viper and triffids pulls all over the place, long before I saw any ghosts. Having to hop constantly to stay out of the water didn't help.

Anyway, on the ghosts: I'd recommend cheesing it. You don't need to kill the ghosts, you just need to rush to the lead-lined chest to pick up the xedrite before they kill you. You can loot in combat, and you should know where the three weapons caches are, so if you've unlocked them, just rush in and loot fast. I did that and it worked ok.

( I have theoretically two stuns via staff but the modded one requires me to use 3 melee abilities before I can stun, and the other stun requires a vulnerable target. I did not see the ghosts become vulnerable. I did once stun a ghost that I didn't think was vulnerable, so I think either the vulnerable icon doesn't show for them, or I'm blind, either of which is a distinct possibility.)

And as ShieldBreaker said, I don't think Stake the Heart would work, although I haven't tried it.

[Figger1]

yes i just thought of maybe just rushing in and getting the metal just to get that quest over with.

[Figger1]

no, that doesnt work, there are ghosts in hallways on the way to the areas that have the special metal. So the ghosts need to be easier to kill, because this just isnt fair.

Or do I need to train Shield or some other skill to level 50 just so i can kill the ghosts in these dungeons? It is bad enough that they are flooded and i have to stand on something to cast a spell.

Maybe you should have a warning "IF YOU ARE USING FIRE MAGIC, DONT EVEN TRY TO DO THESE QUESTS"

[Silkt]

I tried this as staff/fire, just wiped. Staff/archery worked with mangling shot but the water adds a terrible mix. I like the war cache system but think this one has a very wrong mix for a lot of builds.

[Figger1]

which skills have a stun? Does sword have a stun?

[Daguin]

I ran this one in max spec fire/bc WITH Figger1 and was still having a lot of trouble. Without a decent stun to handle the ghosts, those prison cell rooms took forever. I died often and had to speed run back to keep chipping away, especially if I got tangled up with more than two ghosts at once. The difficulty for this one (including the lever panels, which are different for each player) seemed far harder than any of the other caches I have run before or since. Vipers and triffids were just fodder, but sometimes the vipers gang up and the poison DOTs are outrageous. I felt bad because I did complete this one, but Figger1 was unable to get credit because he missed picking up one piece of weaponized xedrite before I had already left the dungeon and was unable to help him at that point.

[ShieldBreaker]

it difficult for me to keep track because, the combat skills and treasure effects are still evolving so hopefully this is still current.

Sword: I think you can get one treasure effect that adds stun on one sword ability.

Shield and Unarmed pretty sure have stun abilities, even more with mods and meditation(unarmed)
Hammer has knockdowns and concussions.
Mentalism and Psychology have treasure effects for stun. Mentalism's might be a problem if standing in water is an issue.
Knife and staff have treasure effects for stun.
Ice magic has Frostbite with random stuns, which triggers well enough, in my opinion, for fighting ghosts.
Bard has a treasure effect that adds a random stun onto Song of Discord
Archery now has mangle shot which stuns, but i haven't got mangle shot so I haven't used archery to stun personally.

Lots of stuns really, deer have a stun, rabbit have a stun. probably more.

[Niph]

Ice magic has Frostbite with random stuns
Last time I checked, Frostbite doesn't stun ghosts. Ice Magic doesn't have any stun.

[Figger1]

Treasure effects? Do you mean bonuses on jewelry? If so, what are the sword treasure effects called for stunning.

[Niph]

Treasure effects? Do you mean bonuses on jewelry? If so, what are the sword treasure effects called for stunning.

Feet only: Many Cuts deals +X% damage and stuns targets that have less than a third of their Armor remaining. However, Power cost is +33%.
Note that to reduce armor on an invulnerable mob (until stunned) you must use armor-removing effects first, and sword has some. But it would take some time to grind 2/3rd of it.

[ShieldBreaker]

Treasure effects? Do you mean bonuses on jewelry? If so, what are the sword treasure effects called for stunning.
Treasure Effects are often called mods in the game.

This one in particular's details are.
Sword : of Dazing the Naked
Tier 4: Many Cuts deals +13% damage and stuns targets that have less than a third of their Armor remaining. However, Power cost is +33%
Location: Feet

[Figger1]

i guess sword wont do it then, you cant do any damage to a ghost until it is stunned. I guess i will have to go shield/AH, i hate to have to switch, i wish fire magic would work, i like it.

[Silkt]

Staff stun doesn't work on the ghosts either as they have to be vulnerable, there is another mod that puts stun on the end of a 4 hit melee combo which I don't have at the moment but at low 50s in 40s gear a staff user will be dead before the 4 hits.

[Tagamogi]

no, that doesnt work, there are ghosts in hallways on the way to the areas that have the special metal. So the ghosts need to be easier to kill, because this just isnt fair.


Ah, I guess I just got lucky then - my ghosts were all in the final rooms with the xedrite, not in the hallways too.

Yes, it feels there should be some way for skills without a proper stun to do this cache. You may just want to wait until the next patch and see what happens - I assume there will be some kind of update to this dungeon. Or you can level up shield, I suppose. ( I leveled up a skill because I needed knockback for another war cache but in my case it was only a few levels and I wanted to level up that skill anyway, so it wasn't a big deal.)


Feet only: Many Cuts deals +X% damage and stuns targets that have less than a third of their Armor remaining. However, Power cost is +33%.
Note that to reduce armor on an invulnerable mob (until stunned) you must use armor-removing effects first, and sword has some. But it would take some time to grind 2/3rd of it.
Dumb question: Do ghosts actually have armor? And if they don't, does that mean the stun would work immediately, or never since they are never going to be below 100% of their initial zero point armor?



Lots of stuns really, deer have a stun, rabbit have a stun. probably more.

Cows, too, just to add an animal I'm aware of. Yes - lots of stuns around, until you find that you are accidentally running two skills that don't have one and you really need it. :p


Staff stun doesn't work on the ghosts either as they have to be vulnerable, there is another mod that puts stun on the end of a 4 hit melee combo which I don't have at the moment but at low 50s in 40s gear a staff user will be dead before the 4 hits.
I was using that mod and I was able to kill a couple ghosts with it in the low 50s in 40s gear, but it wasn't pretty. If I got any add with the ghost, I was definitely dead.

[BetaNotus]

Feet only: Many Cuts deals +X% damage and stuns targets that have less than a third of their Armor remaining. However, Power cost is +33%.
Note that to reduce armor on an invulnerable mob (until stunned) you must use armor-removing effects first, and sword has some. But it would take some time to grind 2/3rd of it.


Dumb question: Do ghosts actually have armor? And if they don't, does that mean the stun would work immediately, or never since they are never going to be below 100% of their initial zero point armor?
Tagamogi's comment actually is accurate. The Ghostly Prisoner creature has 1849 Health, 0 Armor, and 1025 Power. The treasure effect Niph mentioned will almost always stun one of them the first time you use it, except when the attack is caught by the creature's evasion.

Edit: It looks like most Incorporeal Creatures have 0 Armor. Those that do are named, including Katarina Eltibule, Kiralem, Lord Serbule, and Commander Ferrows.

[spider91301]

Guess its time for more people to actually learn shield lol literally the most basic thing in the game even before knowing its mods I knew it would have a stun when I picked it up also if the ghost isnt a elite couldn't a mouse trap work? asking cuz I cant log for a while

[Tagamogi]

also if the ghost isnt a elite couldn't a mouse trap work? asking cuz I cant log for a while

Oh, now that is actually a great idea - so we do have some non-combat skill way to stun. It's out of sequence when leveling though - a new player would do war caches before Rahu Sewers where the rat traps drop and the recipe is learned. Still for my current purposes, leveling gadgeteering would be easier than trying to switch in another combat skill.

[spider91301]

Oh, now that is actually a great idea - so we do have some non-combat skill way to stun. It's out of sequence when leveling though - a new player would do war caches before Rahu Sewers where the rat traps drop and the recipe is learned. Still for my current purposes, leveling gadgeteering would be easier than trying to switch in another combat skill.

Was scrolling through wiki and couldn't find anything so I went to my through my brain instead of wiki this is the best none combat skill related solution I could find I could be wrong though since I cant log for a quarter of a year due to some irl issues to test it and also its as you say out of sequence with leveling which kinda sucks but when I first joined this game I expected stuns would be a must so I tried never to make a combo combat skill wise without one glad I was right

[Niph]

I confirm that Paralizing Rat Trap works and stuns ghosts in F-4. Also that they have no armor (for the purpose of the sword mod, but I didn't test it). Also I confirm that Frostbite (Ice Magic) doesn't work.

The trap can stun pretty much only one ghost, though.

[spider91301]

I confirm that Paralizing Rat Trap works and stuns ghosts in F-4. Also that they have no armor (for the purpose of the sword mod, but I didn't test it). Also I confirm that Frostbite (Ice Magic) doesn't work.

The trap can stun pretty much only one ghost, though.

Lol I feel like a genius for once for finding a workaround no one else in the thread thought of lolz thats a first

[Xaradas]

I can confirm that sword mod for stun works great on ghosts.

[Daguin]

I think this goes back to the "talking to Sand Seer" and preparing to enter the cache with the correct skills. Figger1 and I both entered with the wrong skills active, or without the proper items needed to stun. In my opinion, this is actually a great example of this feature and how it encourages players to try out other skills and/or gear up for various combos. The rat trap trick is great to know!

[Tagamogi]

I think this goes back to the "talking to Sand Seer" and preparing to enter the cache with the correct skills. Figger1 and I both entered with the wrong skills active, or without the proper items needed to stun. In my opinion, this is actually a great example of this feature and how it encourages players to try out other skills and/or gear up for various combos. The rat trap trick is great to know!

I kind of disagree with that because "just play another combat skill" is not a real solution to me. I'm playing my current skills because I enjoy them or want to level them or want to get gear for them, and don't want to be forced to switch them because they are the "wrong" skill. I'm ok if some things are harder to do, but it shouldn't be impossible.

The spider punt potion for the scorpion dungeons is a great example of allowing players to use any skill combo and still get the knockback, just a bit less conveniently. I kind of want something similar for the ghosts, except not a potion because that's already been done now. ;)

Maybe a solution to the ghosts could be to just have them take a tiny bit more damage than now if they haven't been stunned? I'm ok with them taking longer to die but when playing at level they really can't be killed now without a stun, imo.

I do like the rat trap trick very much and I'm happy to finally have a reason to level gadgeteering but I still think it would be nice if there was something else to allow stun.

Or, I guess, an even simpler solution could be to just have Sir Johnson always assign a different dungeon for the next war cache quest. :) I think the main reason this was such a problem for Figger1 is that this one single dungeon was blocking access to all the war caches because the quest kept getting recycled.

[Silkt]

I kind of disagree with that because "just play another combat skill" is not a real solution to me. I'm playing my current skills because I enjoy them or want to level them or want to get gear for them, and don't want to be forced to switch them because they are the "wrong" skill. I'm ok if some things are harder to do, but it shouldn't be impossible.

The spider punt potion for the scorpion dungeons is a great example of allowing players to use any skill combo and still get the knockback, just a bit less conveniently. I kind of want something similar for the ghosts, except not a potion because that's already been done now. ;)

Maybe a solution to the ghosts could be to just have them take a tiny bit more damage than now if they haven't been stunned? I'm ok with them taking longer to die but when playing at level they really can't be killed now without a stun, imo.

I do like the rat trap trick very much and I'm happy to finally have a reason to level gadgeteering but I still think it would be nice if there was something else to allow stun.

Or, I guess, an even simpler solution could be to just have Sir Johnson always assign a different dungeon for the next war cache quest. :) I think the main reason this was such a problem for Figger1 is that this one single dungeon was blocking access to all the war caches because the quest kept getting recycled.

I also agree, according to the dev blog these are meant as a gearing up dungeon post the shithole that is Kur, they aren't meant to say your build is shit "fuck off to serbule and start again" because we will keep sending you to the same one until you get it.

Edit: PS rat trap is not a viable option at level because you don't get it until the next zone and level. So either move war caches to Rahu and bring Rahu sewers to Ilmari Sewers.

[ShieldBreaker]

...

Edit: PS rat trap is not a viable option at level because you don't get it until the next zone and level. So either move war caches to Rahu and bring Rahu sewers to Ilmari Sewers.

Unless some enterprising merchant, starts promoting and selling them in Serbule Market.

[spider91301]

I kind of disagree with that because "just play another combat skill" is not a real solution to me. I'm playing my current skills because I enjoy them or want to level them or want to get gear for them, and don't want to be forced to switch them because they are the "wrong" skill. I'm ok if some things are harder to do, but it shouldn't be impossible.

The spider punt potion for the scorpion dungeons is a great example of allowing players to use any skill combo and still get the knockback, just a bit less conveniently. I kind of want something similar for the ghosts, except not a potion because that's already been done now. ;)

Maybe a solution to the ghosts could be to just have them take a tiny bit more damage than now if they haven't been stunned? I'm ok with them taking longer to die but when playing at level they really can't be killed now without a stun, imo.

I do like the rat trap trick very much and I'm happy to finally have a reason to level gadgeteering but I still think it would be nice if there was something else to allow stun.

Or, I guess, an even simpler solution could be to just have Sir Johnson always assign a different dungeon for the next war cache quest. :) I think the main reason this was such a problem for Figger1 is that this one single dungeon was blocking access to all the war caches because the quest kept getting recycled.

I mean life isn't fair all the time crap still happens your build is as good as you utilize there are no bad builds just bad places to usem but on the side note I legit get where your coming from this kinda is bull crap but you know gives you something else to grind for combat skill wise or find another solution like rat traps, about the reason I will complain about anything more is if they made a new dungeon thats level 70 and immune to all meele

PS:when they make another level 70 dungeon I hope its all undead

[spider91301]

On the bright side the prices of springs are going to go up and the economy has more need of them

[kazeandi]

I usually just abandon the quest in this case and do something else.

Bad design.