Update Discussion: April 26, 2019

[srand]

The update notes are here: https://forum.projectgorgon.com/showthread.php?2101-Update-Notes-April-26-2019&p=15436&viewfull=1#post15436

Discussion is in this thread! But please remember to report any bugs through the in-game reporting system so we can track them.

[ErDrick]

I'm excited to try the rage/health changes in gazluk keep however they pan out. I was starting to feel like you didn't want veteran or group-oriented players feedback anymore, glad to be wrong about that.

You broke song of discord ( bard) however, it doesn't do any damage currently. None, zero, not even"no damage" just... nothing. Forgot to report this through in-game channels since I was discussing another bug with lemons that i had reported previously that may have been fixed. Will do it when I can log back on.

Will give more feedback ( if you want it) after I get a chance to test some stuff.

[Citan]

Thanks, working on a fix for the bard songs now. It will get fixed in a little bit here -- looks like I can fix it with just a server reboot.

[cr00cy]

Ok, I still dint played with new update, but I'm excited to try Wolf changes. My opinon, based solely on patch notes:

- Didn't expected See Red changes, but they look interesting.

- Shadow Feint now looks like skill actually worth using.

- Based on what you said i last blog post, I though Sanguine Fangs will be completly removed from game. Never crossed my mind you will simply change damge type. But if we changign its dmage type, can it be slashing? Or mayeb Trauma, would fit nicley with new See Red.

- Double Claw... I still think its too weak. It has medicore dmage, and no utility.

@Edit

Ok, I'm a bit confused about this part from patch notes:
"All Werewolf attacks have a 31% chance to deal 64 Trauma damage over 8 seconds" => 47% chance
"All Werewolf attacks have a 31% chance to deal 64 Trauma damage over 8 seconds" => "Werewolf Max Health +35"

So, is this mod (%chance for trauma dot) still in game? From what I saw, it was replaced by +hp on both Head and Main Hand slot (I don't remebr if those are exacly the same slots it was before, never used it). Is it just mistake? Or this mod exist, but on some other slot?

Other than that, a bit of fedback - New See Red seems nice, I like that I can finally cause bleeding to multiple enemies. I would love it if Wolf had more AoE attacks, to spread even more Wolf love, but I'll get what I can.

Transumtation changes - yay for lower costs! This little table showing posisble outcomes is good addition too. I know it might be too much to ask, but it would be wonderfull if Lycana dn Hammer players got some discounts on transmuting - because we all know how trolly RNGods can be (I just transmuted single mod 10 times, circling between the same 3 or 4 mods)

Overall, so far i'm happy with Wolf changes. It seems I have no problem dealing with Onkora (or whatever they are called) Rakkies. One-shots are no longer possible, but now I don't really need to one-shot them - I can fight them normally. Will try Worg Cave in Gazluk, and then try to kill Pask, se how it will go.

[Yaffy]

Seems like a really great update. I think I like the look of every single change! I'm looking forward to trying out War Caches on my main and my alt, I'm itching for some neat puzzles. Thanks for the patch!

[Xaradas]

What a pleasant day, I get to go watch Avengers and I get a shiny new fun update for PG and it isn't even my birthday! Looks like Ill be burning the midnight oil once I get off work.

[Golliathe]

There may be a bug with rolling on items with phlog.

I rolled only one type of pglog on an item and ended up with 1% durability left over.

[Citan]

@croocy - that's an error in the patch notes, they are just Max Health now

[Vish]

New Pet for Animal Handing :)
Love to find it :)
I hope for more surprise

[Dibbuk]

My thoughts on the new Ilmari Dungeon Maps: I like them, except the respawn is pretty fast for the level. The only real complaint I have is that the items offered in bartering with the Sir Johnson Bucks seem pretty worthless for the level needed to solo the dungeon. Arms and armor are outgrown too fast to be used in bartering. I would like to see bartering for good foods, potions, etc. Mild cheddar cheese for example.

[Feyth]

I agree, bartering for food and potions would help with leveling. The only issue i can see is it needs to be bound so it isnt used as a money making scheme. Also the obedient slime takes no damage, it needs to be fixed if that is not intended.

[Ranperre]

GK is overall harder. Yes, it's nice that troopers aren't critting you for 800-900, but an HP increase of 30-40% on the easiest mobs is huge. Isn't 3-4k the entire damage output of a new-to-GK 70? My guess is that an optimized group (real tank + roots + a few well modded fire breaths) will have a tougher time pulling entire corridors, but will otherwise not be affected too much. We've basically traded a teensy bit less crit damage for 30-50% longer kills and no additional loot (anecdotally speaking). Additionally, giving some of these harder bosses the ability to randomly heal for 10k... :/. I'll wait to pass final judgment, but I think it's been overtuned, especially when the cap is raised and people will be going through without 5 people that have 50+ mods each + sets designed specifically for GK.

Also, you know those nq orcs that spawn in the hallway in front of the golem? They were constantly spawning even though we weren't engaging the golem (similar to the gargoyles that spawn and eventually patrol into zuke after you engage him). Is this intended?

[Citan]

Definitely the most difficult part of the War Caches is getting the combat balance right. We want them to be fun and challenging for players in the low 50s who might not have good gear -- which really means they should also be good for players in the mid-40s that have great gear. (They will obviously be WAY too easy for players in the 60s+ with good gear; that's okay.)

I would love to hear from players in that target level range. Are certain dungeons too hard? Are they all too hard? Too easy? If you notice especially imbalanced ones, please refer to them by their letter-number combination (e.g. S-4). You can find that by looking in your quest log. Thanks!

[poulter]

Feedback on GK post-patch: Need feedback on difficulty level from less geared groups.

Overall impression: Good job, runs are more entertaining, fights last longer, less random deaths (from crits), more thought and preparation by groups is required, 'pure' damage groups (i.e. those who don't use much crowd control, or group healing) will find it more difficult. +1 on the changes,

Detail:
Did one run with a geared group and enjoyed it more, as a 'steam roller' approach required much more healing of the group. Still relatively easy for the group, but suspect that less geared and experienced groups will find GK much harder. Respawn times might need to be reviewed.

Cleared level 1 bosses & level 2 Zuk & Slime bosses in an hour. Note: We weren't doing a speed run.

Overall, would say it was of similar difficulty as before (but with a more predictable damage taken profile) and much more entertaining.

Fight durations:
Took longer and required a greater mix of skills (especially crowd control and healing).

Typically with such a group I would get to cast 3 attacks plus 1 heal before a mob died.
Post-patch, it was 5 attacks plus 2 heals. And I was able to use combination damage building attack sequences for the first time in c. 2 years.

Difficulty:
Tested with 1 healer active on 3 reflective spiders & puller died
Tried with 2 active healers (2nd used AOE) against 5 spiders (+ couple of extra random mobs who joined in) with no issues
I suspect that secondary healing specs will be making a comeback for GK very soon (cf. Lab specs when level 60 was the cap).

Soloing:
Still able to solo single GK patrol mobs, but takes more time and extra heals.
This has a major impact as reaching chests deeper in GK may no longer be possible before respawns.

Summary:
Overall, I think the changes are good and add value, but more testing is required, especially from less well geared groups.

[cr00cy]

New Pet for Animal Handing :)
Love to find it :)
I hope for more surprise

New pet? Do you mean new variant of pets we could already tame (rat/cat/bear) or completly new type of pets to tame?

[ErDrick]

The bug where GK tacticians would put a skill on cooldown while preventing it from firing at the same time seems to have been fixed.

The bug with 2 overlapping entrances to Gk seems to have been fixed.

Loading into GK seemed much faster for me, but I also recently upgraded my system.

The issue with a long-cooldown skill not firing when used immediately as they become available but going back on cooldown seems to have been fixed.

I like the transmutation changes, an extra popup window is a small price to pay to avoid the potential situation that used to happen where you could transmute the wrong mod because it ninja-changed on you. It's also pretty damn handy to be able to see all the potential mods that are possible, I'm not 100% convinced those %'s are accurate though or that their isn't another underlying bug that causes the ABABABAB thing we talked about before though !

Also good job on the quick fix for song of discord being broken.

Crit rage changes for the most part are welcomed, I think it was a good call to leave basic crits as-is but tone down rage crits, this puts difficulty in just about the right place. ( except when you get swarm mobbed, that's still a problem for difficulty, especially when it's unintentional. I'm not referring to any specific place with that comment, I mean in general swarm mobbing is frustrating).

Soloing in GK is much much harder, grouping seems more fun.. Poulter's feedback here is good feedback and I can agree with it. ( need some from a group of "fresh' 70's though). Personally I would increase their health even more, but also reduce the density and slightly increase the droprate... that would make it just about perfect. I'd like to see every group-dungeon follow those same rules once you figure the correct amounts/balance/density out.

One thing that dungeons are still sorely lacking that they need though is safe spots in which to afk/ phlog etc. There are a few in some but there needs to be more.

War-caches seem like a good addition, I can't give much information on their balance for the intended level range though, but with a completely unmodded skill @ 70 it was okay, as in not stupidly easy in those circumstances but not frustratingly hard either. I have not ran into any bugs in the caches except for the 180 degree camera bug in the first one I entered ( I'm sorry I didn't take note of which cache it was, but if it happens again I will and I will report it in game).

Bard feels incredibly weak after whatever it was you fixed with it, and I mean compared to any other skillset, there are things I can kill with a completely 100% unmodded sword skill that I couldn't kill with a nearly optimized bard. My suggestion here is to finally allow the extra healing / armor healing from song of resurgance that only effects the caster to effect the group, make it good at what most people envisioned in the fist place.. group support. ( it should never have been a soloing monster... although to be fair right now, it isn't... but it's still lacking group-wise as a support).

General Prask Is still capable of one shot kills vs most sets with his rage crit, his base damage is probably a little bit too high. I think he hit me for close to 1000/1000 but I couldn't get the exact numbers because the death window now covers the floaty numbers instantly and no combat log.

The snare effect on rahu plateau ( and everywhere really where mobs have it) needs to be toned down. You see more things coming but you can't move to pull back and avoid fighting 10 mobs instead of the 1-3 you intended, and it gets frustrating really quickly. In general high percentile snare effects are overly punishing to melee players regardless because it costs power to move in combat and you are barely moving, you don't really need mob snares in place as an anti-kite since kiting is not viable either way for anyone ( cause it eats power super fast if you try it). Snares would be fine if the percent you are snared by is lowered by a lot, like cut in half at the least.

The new dev tools for events seems great, the rewards were not so hot for the effort but it was fun regardless, I'm sure that can be improved going forwards..and I realize it was the first test run. I was especially impressed how a bug was located and fixed during the event rather quickly.

Overall my verdict is great patch though, I hope you continue a little farther down this road.

EDIT: Forgot to mention transmutation changes in original!

[ErDrick]

New pet? Do you mean new variant of pets we could already tame (rat/cat/bear) or completly new type of pets to tame?

Without going into spoilers too heavily, there is a new named grimalkin in the new content somewhere. Incidentally ding lvl 86 notoriety.

[Tagamogi]

I way like the war caches. Something about the combination of small, different dungeons plus puzzles plus quest rewards feels irresistible to me and I want to do 20 in a row... I like the variety of dungeons, the different mobs, the groundspawn loot, the opportunities for skinning and butchering and mycology. I also really appreciated the warning for the exit, when I was trying to leave a dungeon and hadn't realized I hadn't finished the quest yet.

The only two cons for me so far are:
It's usually a bit of a run to get to a dungeon and then to get back. It's not super-bad, but I imagine it could get frustrating for characters without run speed. At the risk of sounding super lazy, I'd love to be able to teleport directly back to Sir Johnson after finishing a dungeon instead of running back. This probably won't be a concern once we get mounts though.

I really want more storage and vendors in Amulna. I want to keep doing war cache after war cache and I can't because my inventory's full. :(

The difficulty largely seems perfect to me:
I did my first set of war caches with 62ish rabbit/ 72ish psychology but since the dungeons were kind of crowded at the time, there wasn't much for me to kill. There was one boss that killed me with fire damage - there was someone else in the dungeon, and we ended up death-zerging him down but I wonder if he was maybe doing a little bit too much health damage.
I had a couple quests that required me to collect specific drops from dead monsters - I wish there had been more mobs dropping what I needed or a faster respawn rate for them. I shared the dungeon with someone else, and while I could largely loot their corpses, I didn't necessarily see those corpses, so I ended up doing quite a bit of wandering around and waiting for repops so I could finish the quest. I would have liked it if the quest needed fewer drops, or if there had been just a few more quest mobs.

My second set of war caches was more level-appropriate, with an alt who'd just reached 50 staff/ 50 battle chemistry / 34 crossbow. Kur Tower's loot RNG had not been kind to me, so I was wearing a couple 30 orange pieces of gear, with the rest orange - purple level 40 and one level 50 purple, plus my white crossbow. I did use transmutation on my gear (like the new transmutation rules!) but no augmentation. 62 endurance and level 40-50 meal + snack. The difficulty on that character feels great. The mobs take a little bit to kill, but not too long. I can usually handle two mobs, and often three but three can also kill me. So, very very nice, in my opinion. I had two caches completely to myself and experimented with burying corpses vs not burying them but didn't really notice a difference. I didn't do a lot of backtracking, so respawns didn't really feel like a problem either way and seemed appropriate and not very fast. I was able to kill one boss (grimalkin + chemist) and it felt appropriately difficult and dangerous to me.

On this character, the downstairs water area with the hippo was very difficult. I didn't really see a spot to get out of the water, so I ended up fighting the hippo with basically staff skills only and my side bar damage unavailable too. It was a long fight, and the hippo healed itself at some point. Fortunately, it wasn't doing too much damage, so I was able to heal myself and defeat it. After that, I accidentally got two vipers at once and died because most of my skills were disabled by the water. Still, not bad - I'd just appreciate some more out of the water stepping stones. (And more hippos! I love hippos!!)
I had another water dungeon and that one worked fine because I was able to hop onto crates and mushrooms. It made things a bit more difficult but I appreciated having to do something different.

I definitely had problems locating the symbols on the walls. That's quite likely just a me problem - I'm generally distinctly below average in noticing visual clues. Checking my notes, it looks like out of 10ish war caches, I found all 6 symbols for only 2 of them, and one of them was the same symbol in two different locations, so I'm not sure if I missed another symbol somewhere. Happily, the vaults are solvable with or without the wall symbols. I'm still uncertain on whether knowing the symbols actually makes the vault easier.

I loved the war cache loot. I'm anxiously looking forward to reaching 55 so I can gear up my alt with Sir Johnson bucks but in the meantime I found a new level 50 ring to replace my level 30 goblin dungeon relic and I'm quite happy. (I don't think I'd bother doing the war caches below 50 - they may be doable in the 40s but the loot is going to be out of the level range and with no handy place in Amulna to store gear until it can be worn, it seems easier to stay in Kur Tower until 50 or a bit higher.)
On my rabbit, who'd previously run the Rahu Sewers, I actually found a couple very nice level 60 upgrades to my surprise. So, I think if I was just looking for gear I'd probably skip the Sewers and just go war caches till 60+, and then on to the Gazluk caves. Of course, the Sewers have xedrite, so there is that.

I think having the caches be solo works pretty well. I need to think a bit about cracking the vault, and I'm just as happy to be on my own then and not divide my brain between solving the puzzle and chatting.

On a different topic, I did the Rahu Sewers with a friend post-patch and it seemed much easier than pre-patch, although I'm uncertain whether that was due to the reduced crit damage or just more experience with the dungeon and a couple more levels on our part. I'm still not sure how good this place is to solo at level but it was great fun to duo (72ish psychology / 63ish rabbit + 70ish bard/48ish priest).

[Vish]

New pet? Do you mean new variant of pets we could already tame (rat/cat/bear) or completly new type of pets to tame?

just new variants but still its nice to find those

[cr00cy]

Without going into spoilers too heavily, there is a new named grimalkin in the new content somewhere. Incidentally ding lvl 86 notoriety.

Oh, and here I though there is whoel ne wpet category. Unfortuantelly, unique mobs dont have any speciall stuff, from what I saw, so they are mor eof trophy than anything else.

[Mbaums]

New pet? Do you mean new variant of pets we could already tame (rat/cat/bear) or completly new type of pets to tame?

Its like a blue/green hissy. I dont know the 2 skills it has but it looks like it has 2 existing skills, as I did not see any new pet skills added

[DrHeart]

I'm over-leveled for this content (which is perfectly okay!) but I of course jumped right into it because it's new content, so here is my feedback regarding the new caches:

-I love the new lore bits scattered in among the newly-written NPCs. Some of it confirming info from other places about the history of the desert, some of it new. I am one of those players that reads all NPC dialogue, so this was much appreciated.

-Overall, I think this content is a great concept. I group up sometimes, but it's nice to see that development is also friendly toward the solo player. I think the length is appropriate (I'm assuming it takes slightly longer for appropriately-leveled characters). "Dungeons" that don't require a multi-hour investment are always a plus.

-I can't really speak to the difficulty of the combat, although even I had trouble with a water-filled one as a fire magic/mentalism user. This is a plus for me. I worry a little about level 50 players getting *to* some of the cache locations in the first place with some of the enemies in the desert.

-Safe-cracking: I'm so excited about a new skill!! I did the first two caches before being directed to talk to The Sand Seer, where I actually learned about the full rules to safe-cracking (especially the 6/6 symbol divide). I was a little disappointed here, because this made the puzzles trivial for me. I did notice the symbols on the walls, but I ignored them during the first two chests I opened. I would prefer the difficulty be ratcheted up several notches for these. (This is a personal preference and may not be everybody's cup of tea. Maybe a few chests could randomly be extra difficult? And provide higher safe-cracking xp?)

Thanks so much for the new content!

[Silkt]

I really like the war cache system but my understanding from the dev blog was that they were intended to gear a new 50. I've done about 10 so far and while i have got some nice gear, I can't use any of it until 55 or 60. Difficulty wise they seem to be ok for early 50, single mob I'm fine, multiple pull I'm struggling sometimes live sometimes die, except the ghosts in the water they kill me quick as staff/fire with stake the heart sidebar but switch to staff/archer, mangling shot worked if you get to a mushroom quick enough and not drag a viper as well.

I would say the general mobs need to drop more lvl 50 gear and leave the 55 for the barter and 60 only from the chest. Concept is great though, hopefully see more at different levels, since we have Gazluk done for lvl 60 content maybe the next new zone for lvl 70 content could be more war cache with lvl 80 zone back to standard dungeon.

Edit: This thread covers the issues with the ghosts and seems to be the most challenging of the war caches. https://forum.projectgorgon.com/showthread.php?2110-Ghosts-In-War-Cache-F-4

[Niph]

Overall, thumbs up for this update. I liked the war cache a lot, for the diversity, the design and the puzzles. Of course, once you know your way and your levers it becomes a bit more of a grind, but I complete them mostly in the expected time so I'd say this part is right on target.

The war caches involving scorpions are quite annoying, but now I do them with a crossbow and some arrows to knock them back, and it's no longer an issue.

There is this F-4 map with ghosts that could be tuned down. In your blog post you mentioned that you expected some preparation would be necessary, but the thing is you can't really prepare for them. As far as I know, there is no sidebar ability that can stun, no sigil or other things like that. So, if you're not playing with a skill that can stun it can be pretty hard to prepare, as you must switch to a loadout with a stun, run away and return back to your normal build. I play AH/sword to level this new pet (thank you for that) and that's what I do.

Difficulty-wise, I'm too well-geared to comment. I have noticed and reported a few bugs, nothing major beside a problem with the Spider Punt ability.

Regarding the Gazluk Keep change, I went there to see how it affected my ability to solo the place, and I think it made it easier, albeit slower. I run Ice/Psy, and beside what some people may think, I don't have much trouble keeping my health and armor permanently at max. I don't even use armor patching or first aid, and troopers for example don't stand a chance. Infiltrators are the hardest, because I'm defenseless against indirect poison damage, but if I bothered with poison resistance I could probably easily fix that.

[Golliathe]

The egg event was a nice gesture thank you. But please have the rewards be in line with one another in the future; 40 gems worth 200 each is not a fair reward when compared 3 random level 70 pieces of gear.


GK is overall harder...

but I think it's been overtuned, especially when the cap is raised and people will be going through without 5 people that have 50+ mods each + sets designed specifically for GK.

I have not had a chance to go to GK yet but:

In the past GK felt like it was kept overly hard because it is the group zone for lvl 70; but it is the only zone for level 70s to get loot. There is a huge disconnect from someone who made a well rolled 50 yellow set, got a few yellow pieces from the sewer, rolled that and then went to GK for the first time. In short GK has felt for a very long time like you designed it for level 70 characters who have well rolled gear sets. That only makes sense now with 70 being the cap. It wont make any sense when 70 is a week long transition (or less) when people are moving to get level 80 gear.



Regarding the Gazluk Keep change, I went there to see how it affected my ability to solo the place, and I think it made it easier, albeit slower. I run Ice/Psy, and beside what some people may think, I don't have much trouble keeping my health and armor permanently at max. I don't even use armor patching or first aid, and troopers for example don't stand a chance. Infiltrators are the hardest, because I'm defenseless against indirect poison damage, but if I bothered with poison resistance I could probably easily fix that.

Is Citan even bothered by people fighting the mobs in GK solo? I am kinda starting to think he isn't.

But let's say he wanted to press a button and make it nearly impossible for any 70 to solo he could do that pretty easily (while adjusting the zone overall to make it eaier). This would open the door to make the zone realistic for new lvl 70 players with lvl 60/50 (yellow well rolled gear).

1. Change the main entrance room spawn points (first fight down the stairs).
2. Change the backdoor so that there is a singular windy path (instead of a multiple exit scenario - basic trap design works so that you force the target to go exactly one way). All the empty space at the back
3. Add one new elite mob

1. If you adjust the mob position just a bit you can make this not be 4x single pulls. So in this first room add a new mob "elite guard" or something like that with above average armor/health and piercing damage on a spear. Special ability: 100% immune to root, stun, mez, etc. as well as critical hits. Place this new mob on the blind spot on the stairs so that if you go down the stairs he will aggro. Make his call for assist bigger than normal but his aggro range smaller. This will do a few things: force him to be killed first, always make him aggro first, make all the mobs in the first room always assist him, and force a failed assault to go back outside.

This will create an ironclad block that willy likely keep 99% of people from trying to solo the front door. A group that can clear the first room is rewarded with easier fights inside. Alternatively you could have 2 elite guards and then say like 4 trash mobs in the first room. I would hope that a group of level 70 characters would have at least one mez/root in the group (can always change specs later).

2. For the backdoor you left a lot of space so that people go from the rug to melandria safely. When aggro changes I suspect that area will change too; but currently that works as a perfect "kite runway". Here you can just add 2 elite guards on every doorway that would lead to something interesting (not the doors leading out of the "cross").

3. Maybe the new mob could have very specific instructions to always return to his spawn point.

[Niph]

As far as I know, there is no sidebar ability that can stun

I take that back, the Paralyzing Rat Trap does stun, can go on sidebar, and is reasonably easy to farm in small quantities (Through easy quests, then barter).

[ErDrick]

Gk mobs probably still need a little more health, but I'm pretty sure from the patch notes you already knew that, I still think it feels more on the right track. Not being suddenly one shot killed is a huge improvement fun wise regardless.

Mobs that cast indirect damage effects need to not spam them every second as basic attacks, vipers are pretty big offenders here and so are slugs, it's fine for a viper to spit poison at you every 6 seconds or so but when they do it constantly ( in fact they have no melee attacks at all) it gets ridiculous. Geyser slug/ rakshasa mages / drakeworms( fire ones) are also huge offenders here, indirect attacks are fine as long as they aren't spammable until you have 7 versions of the same damage over time effect on you. Even with the indirect mitigation from thick skin + alcohol tolerance these DoT's feel over tuned at 70, can't imagine how much a 50/60 hates them. You just need to add a cooldown on these effects like 6 seconds or so and give them non-indirect attacks to use for the other 5 seconds. This would be in line with most of our skillsets. I know potions are an alternative but you honestly can't be expecting us to carry 20 different potions with no "potion bag" or something similar.

I know this is going to be unpopular but you need to get rid of the percentile based mitigation shields for unarmed and cow, it is impossible to balance damage when you have both forms of mitigation existing, my advice for unarmed would be to change it to some sort of evasion self-buff ( since that makes more sense thematically for a monk, and they'd still be tanky.. but it would be the sort of dodge dodge spiked for 40% of your health, tankyness) and change cow version to flat numbers or a temporary health buffer shield, like 200pts or so. Either that or give more skills access to percentile based mitigation... there is really no other option balance wise unless you do one or the other, because any changes to damage otherwise will make one type overpowered while making the other type underpowered at the same time. For example right now cows and unarmed builds can still pull 5-7 mobs at once in GK, no other skillset can ( possibly barring staff as long as all the mobs die within 10 seconds, which seems unlikely at this point). This is going to end up boring people that are using those skills, and frustrating anyone that isn't.

I would still like to see mitigation from armor not be tied to your remaining armor, it's unreliable and doesn't really do much since from even a single hit you no longer have the same mitigation you had a second ago, you could leave everything else the way it is armor bar wise, alternately you could tie it to weather you have armor at all instead of scaling down for every 25 damage your armor receives, as in.. you lose all armor mitigation when your armor hits zero, until then it stays as a flat amount ( 40 if you have 1000 max armor etc). This would give heavy armor a lot more reliability and make it a competitive choice vs cloth or leather.

I know you are aware of the taunt + root issue that can allow groups to cheese difficult mobs, and I believe you said changing their target priority while rooted would be problematic... so how about this : Make all direct damage attacks have a 10% chance per attack to break a root prematurely, hell do the same thing with snare if you really want to, snare feels balanced though already because kiting eats your power, it already has a downside.

Archery still needs a quiver, badly.

You should also "never" be considered in-combat unless you are actually hit by something or hit something, this is extremely frustrating for travel when you are slowed down because something saw you and doesn't like you, especially when you are flying and some tiger on the ground decides he hates you. It's also pretty frustrating when you land as a bird, see a mob coming..start transforming and your transformation fails even though you still haven't been struck, because the game considers you in combat anyways. Also even on the ground when you run past something 15m away it shouldn't suddenly slow you down unless it actually hits you, this just makes sense.

I know this might come off as criticism or overly negative, but it really isn't. We all just want to have fun and you need to know about these issues, it's up to you if you decide to act on them or not but they are certainly problematic. I'd be remiss if I didn't at least try to mention them to you in a clear format.

[Sasho]

The damage% boosts on some of the belts (e.g. sword/arch) is still a trivial bonus. Supposed to boost dmg at "8%" but the math really boils down to about a 1-2% increase.

Sir Johnson bucks are fun, but don't offer anything incentivizing for me being that I'm already on level 70 gear. I'd love to see some possible side items like desert rose seeds, chalices of life, or maybe some cool abilities (if it doesn't break the game) like a sidebar skill for knockback.

[Silkt]

I think it counts as part of the update: the new event tools seem to be working to create the event, the event wordings need to be improved though to include comments about what rewards are ONCE per account and what can be completed by alts.

The rewards also need to match the description of the selection you make, as a deer/druid I selected lvl 70 reward and got an orb that was lvl 50 necro/lvl 51 unarmed, a work order for an NPC that doesn't talk to animals and a leaky clay pot.

Apart from a lvl 50 reward being not lvl 70 as selected, it had no skill mods, just underwater breath +6 and chance to avoid knockback when unarmed is active. Why is this unarmed mod even possible on an orb?

It was an orb that is useless in the form I was in;

Is an off hand that doesn't work with one of the skills on it.

[Golliathe]

I know this is going to be unpopular but you need to get rid of the percentile based mitigation shields for unarmed and cow, it is impossible to balance damage when you have both forms of mitigation existing, my advice for unarmed would be to change it to some sort of evasion self-buff ( since that makes more sense thematically for a monk, and they'd still be tanky.. but it would be the sort of dodge dodge spiked for 40% of your health, tankyness) and change cow version to flat numbers or a temporary health buffer shield, like 200pts or so. Either that or give more skills access to percentile based mitigation... there is really no other option balance wise unless you do one or the other, because any changes to damage otherwise will make one type overpowered while making the other type underpowered at the same time. For example right now cows and unarmed builds can still pull 5-7 mobs at once in GK, no other skillset can ( possibly barring staff as long as all the mobs die within 10 seconds, which seems unlikely at this point). This is going to end up boring people that are using those skills, and frustrating anyone that isn't.

Unarmed gets a mods that makes it gain % mitigation. Psych and ice have innate abilities that gives mitigation. The difference between shield:unarmed for tanking is like the difference between necro and fire for aoe damage. Yaffy broke down the math on this (I think twice) and made videos showing how unarmed was better than shield for big hits before changes were made last patch. The only thing shield has is elemental ward which gives you 10 seconds of immunity with 20 seconds of cooldown. Unarmed doesn't have a situation where the % mitigation fails or is on cooldown.

Cow tanking is broken because unarmed is broken. The only thing silly about cow is that it runs really fast and has an incredible aoe taunt (I already suggested once before that players as a whole are overtaunting way too easily). Without being able to easily aoe taunt for huge amounts of health then 6-8 pulls wont be easy.

As long as there are % damage shields people will likely be able to solo content that is supposed to be for groups.



I know you are aware of the taunt + root issue that can allow groups to cheese difficult mobs, and I believe you said changing their target priority while rooted would be problematic... so how about this : Make all direct damage attacks have a 10% chance per attack to break a root prematurely, hell do the same thing with snare if you really want to, snare feels balanced though already because kiting eats your power, it already has a downside. That's a lazy solution that makes root nearly worthless. Everquest solved this problem ages ago : If the mob is rooted it hits things by proximity (you could have it 'clear' aggro by being rooted).




You should also "never" be considered in-combat unless you are actually hit by something or hit something, this is extremely frustrating for travel when you are slowed down because something saw you and doesn't like you, especially when you are flying and some tiger on the ground decides he hates you. It's also pretty frustrating when you land as a bird, see a mob coming..start transforming and your transformation fails even though you still haven't been struck, because the game considers you in combat anyways. Also even on the ground when you run past something 15m away it shouldn't suddenly slow you down unless it actually hits you, this just makes sense.


This one I have to disagree with. Combat needs to stay as it is because otherwise some movement speeds would be overpowered (fire magic/flying). Flying is borderline OP because you can just 100% ignore the content. The system like it is "keeps you honest" for doing things like gear swapping or in your case changing travel forms.

On that note can we nerf travel form swapping? Battlechemistry buffs drop the second you change classes. But you can change to shield press take the lead, elemental ward and then change to a different class and still have those buffs. Why?

[Daguin]

On that note can we nerf travel form swapping? Battlechemistry buffs drop the second you change classes. But you can change to shield press take the lead, elemental ward and then change to a different class and still have those buffs. Why?
Agree with this, or the opposite, and just make the BC buffs not tied to whether the caster has the skill active or not. I have seen players exploit the first case to speed run GK solo to Melandria without using back door.

[Golliathe]

Agree with this, or the opposite, and just make the BC buffs not tied to whether the caster has the skill active or not. I have seen players exploit the first case to speed run GK solo to Melandria without using back door.

What I see is a reward for having spent leveling 5+ classes and having the ability to setup a hardware/software macro. It feels very exploity when you see it or use it yourself.

1. There is a potential for people to stack insane sprint speeds or multiple normally not allowed combat buffs at the same time.
2. There is already a working protocol in place that more or less says: if you cast class buffs and change classes those buffs fade immediately.
3. This change would close a source of exploitation.
4. BC buffs would be stupidly broken if they didn't fade when you swapped; but there are other abilities that are still pretty broken with short durations.
5. It seems more simple to have everything work the same way: If you change classes you lose all active buffs from that class.

As an extreme example I could see someone parking a low level alt with tether outside a very difficult boss. That way when you are fighting the boss the priest can cast tether mid fight if someone dies. The current content isn't that hard yet and the playerbase overall isn't quite yet that bored.

How about a less extreme example: a group in voice chat says 1-2-3 go and 5/6 players all put on their mentalism or some other swap gear set. They all cast a buff then change back to their real classes and kill the boss. In some cases the buffs wont fade until the end of the fight or after the boss is dead.

In one sense this requires dedication and planning to pull off but it most definitely has the potential to make some content insanely easier than it should be.

Citan, If that is what you want then leave it in the game. If not then change it.

[Malechna]

These new war caches are the bee's knees!

[ErDrick]

I just wanna make a quick correction to something I said earlier.

Cows don't have a % based mitigation shield, they are just really strong tanks with decent self-healing. I'm not sure why I thought they did, but I double checked and they don't.( I talked to some cow players and I also went through their list of modifiers myself).

I stand by the rest of the issues I mentioned, but I still believe this was a really good patch. Definitely steps in the right direction and the war caches fill a niche that existed, plus most of them are fun.

[Mbaums]

I like the war caches and I do them for the safe cracking skill. The symbols around the zone are nice, but I've decided that its just easier to forget about them and solve the mino chests without it. The fact that they can spawn in small dead ends, nearly behind boxes against a wall, and there might be less than 6 if there are duplicates in the symbols makes finding it just a PITA.

If you do ever create 70 and higher versions of war caches, I do believe the gear from there should be that the gear is weaker --in white stats not in mod#s-- to that of whatever is dropping off the group level content. I just want to avoid 70s deciding they can get better gear solo vs struggling with a 3-man torture-fest.

Also, the spiders in GK... They stun now? I dislike it, but I welcome the difficulty! I should have been looking at other mobs abilities but this was the most noticeable.

Clopjaw's extreme regen is really nice. And he is actually the first pet ive had with the lure away clever trick. Tested it and I absolutely hate it :P It's just that the pets aggro is still wonky.

[Clip]

I like the war caches and I do them for the safe cracking skill. The symbols around the zone are nice, but I've decided that its just easier to forget about them and solve the mino chests without it. The fact that they can spawn in small dead ends, nearly behind boxes against a wall, and there might be less than 6 if there are duplicates in the symbols makes finding it just a PITA.
FYI, the Rune clues are always in the same location for a particular cache, and we've got most of them mapped on the wiki if you want the spoiler. Agreed, they can be tough to spot, so getting the wiki maps in place for easier repeat adventures was worth the effort.

War Cache S-1 has a bug where one rune clue is repeated, so you only get 5 clues any time you run the dungeon and there's a possibility the solution might have one of the other seven runes. All the other war cache runes work, though.



If you do ever create 70 and higher versions of war caches, I do believe the gear from there should be that the gear is weaker --in white stats not in mod#s-- to that of whatever is dropping off the group level content. I just want to avoid 70s deciding they can get better gear solo vs struggling with a 3-man torture-fest.

Absolutely opposite opinion here. I love the war caches and dream of having a L70 equivalent. The game would be so much more enjoyable if there was a reasonable solo option for L70 content.

Please do it! I've had a great time with the War Caches, and spent more time enjoying PG dungeons in the past couple weeks than the few months before they came out. I don't play video games to have a "torture-fest." I do it for fun, and stress isn't what I want from PG. It shouldn't take away the ability of players like Mbaums to have their adrenaline-rush group do-or-die experience and let players like me have a fun (and gear-rewarding) solo experience too.

It would be a wonderful improvement to the game to have a real solo option at 70 that actually gave some decent chances at some yellow drops. The war caches have proved that beyond a doubt by being such a fun area with level 60 rewards.

There's only so many hours you can spend on the edge of Onkara Plateau killing War Troopers, or in the little section of cave where the Skeleton Frostlords and Vigilants spawn, and come away with blue drops at best. PG gets pretty depressing when your only options are that or GK and you have real-life time (and stress) constraints that make big group GK runs a rare option.

+1 to something like War Caches at the level cap, please! It's okay if it's only 25%-50% as good as GK runs, but right now, the L70 alternatives feel more like 500:1 worse odds for gear, measured by drops relative to hours of play time invested.

(The numbers I claim above are based on raw emotional feelings, and are nearly baseless, and certainly not supported by even somewhat impartial anecdotal evidence, much less a process that involved things like counting or algebra.)

[Jarlaxle]

I'd say hold off on level 70 war cache until the level cap is raised to 80. Otherwise there would be no incentive to create groups for GK when you can just easily solo whenever you have 15 minutes of free time. Even if drop rates are 25% as good, but at 1000% easier, you know which options most of the players would choose.

[Niph]

Clopjaw's extreme regen is really nice. And he is actually the first pet ive had with the lure away clever trick. Tested it and I absolutely hate it :P It's just that the pets aggro is still wonky.

I did not notice the regen, but when does a pet take damage? They never have aggro. :)

Joke aside, I find Chopjaw's clever trick nice (but situational) because it's the second pet after Tundra Bear that has a chance to get aggro over you in the middle of the fight: this clever trick includes an aggro increase.

[Citan]

When you switch skills, your buffs from the old skills should stop working. This has to be coded and tagged manually, and as you might imagine, there is a ton of complex data to configure. So I sometimes don't bother if I think the buff is short and irrelevant. Other times I just overlook it. Anyway, if you have an exploitable scenario where you can swap skills to get lots of buff stacks, please report it so it can be fixed more quickly. It is definitely not intentional!

[Mbaums]

FYI, the Rune clues are always in the same location for a particular cache...



Absolutely opposite opinion here..[/SIZE]

I never even thought to look in the same spot for them! With the fog resetting I never noticed and I assumed it was dynamic per-person. And I see your point, it's essentially, people are still putting in work for their gear. I look at it like, if the white stats on something from a group dungeon is 168 armor, +42 health from combat refresh, the solo version could be 160 armor +38 refresh or something, to avoid a scenario where people argue, "why even DO lvl 70 dungeons?", but then again people flip the script and argue why even do the war caches.

The chlopjaw's is identical to the other Grimalkin outside, only he has extreme regen instead of thick armor. It really pays off if you use Unnatural Wrath.