Surveying and NPC running out of cash.

[Malice00]

Surveying can be pretty expensive. Especially when selling loot to vendors who have limited funds. How do you overcome this.

Keep in mind, while not limited to, I do focus 99% of my time in South Serbule, Serbule and Eltibule. I have ventured into Kur Mountains, but it takes a lot of preparation I am not willing to do right now.

[Greyfyn]

If you are selling your surveying output to vendors, you are losing some of the value. In the past, heavy-duty surveyors have stood at the well and announced the sale of gems. Players readily buy for 200 councils and sometimes a bit more. Selling to Larsan only gives 100. Currently there are a lot more gems available because players are leveling skills and trying to make money, so there's no guarantee. As for metal bars--I can't imagine selling them to any one but a player.

I personally never focus on making money--it's a outcome of my other activities. Killing things and taking their shit is still my most reliable means of support.

[Spiritfingers]

Have you maxed favor with npcs in Serb and Elt? I barely go into South Serb so I don't even know how many npcs there will buy items from you. Getting the soul mates with npcs that will buy your stuff is just as important as leveling combat skills or endurance, etc. For example, when I first started playing I either farmed pigs for days or had money to buy pork shoulders from npcs. I made a ton of bacon and gave it to Joeh. He was the first npc I got to soul mates. He buys all types of gear.

[cr00cy]

Never, ever sell your gems to npc. Palyers will buy it for duble, or sometimes evn triple price. Right now, if i see someone sellign gems for around 200 i would probably buy them on the spot(if i had cash on me ofc). I personaly consider anything up to ~250 as afair price for any gems. More than that im willng to apy if i need gems to craft myeself gear. 300 and more is oberpricing imo.

As for limited cash on vendores - work on favor. The higher favor with vendor the bigger they money pool. Also they will pay more for your stuff.

But honestly speaking - for few month now i never evn tried to empty out vendors money pool, didnt needed it. All my cash come from work orders, and occasionaly selling some stuff. This changed now taht w ehave lv 70 skills,a nd tehy cost tons to unlock and train, but still i hardly feel need to farm for money.

[Spiritfingers]

Never, ever sell your gems to npc. Palyers will buy it for duble, or sometimes evn triple price. Right now, if i see someone sellign gems for around 200 i would probably buy them on the spot(if i had cash on me ofc). I personaly consider anything up to ~250 as afair price for any gems. More than that im willng to apy if i need gems to craft myeself gear. 300 and more is oberpricing imo.

As for limited cash on vendores - work on favor. The higher favor with vendor the bigger they money pool. Also they will pay more for your stuff.

But honestly speaking - for few month now i never evn tried to empty out vendors money pool, didnt needed it. All my cash come from work orders, and occasionaly selling some stuff. This changed now taht w ehave lv 70 skills,a nd tehy cost tons to unlock and train, but still i hardly feel need to farm for money.

You will not see Amethyst for 300. They are the main ingredient in teleportation so their importance is way beyond 300. I've seen them sell between 600-800.

[Malice00]

Agreed, Amethyst for 300 is unreal, but I am up to 12 mining them. So far I have never seen anyone selling gems at the well. I will be more observant to that and try selling myself. Between cooking, carpentry and surveying money and supplies have been tough to manage, but thanks for advice.

So my next issue then is scrolls for recipes.

[Crissa]

I have sometimes ended up selling out at the vendors...

...But there's alot of vendors and NPCs that'll buy or accept gems as gifts so... How the heck do you run them out of money? O-o

[cratoh]

Now that there is a larger playerbase and players have colonised the second and half the third room gem prices have stuttered around the 200 - 250 mark, but not selling. Amethyst you can get for +/-400 from player stalls. Redwalls for 100 as per usual.

Given the large number of gems you can make of just a few minutes doing surveys I would say you should probably make the most of it by selling for 175 or something in channel.

Some gems are worth more as they are more in demand. Quartz, Citrine, Garnet for example are for popular skills. Obsidian, Onyx are for favour and obviously Amethyst are for TP. Also with Gazluk arriving more people are using alternative teleport so i guess maybe green gems, and aquamarine may see prices rising.

However, soemthing to bear is mind is that things change. People farming gems and selling them now, as they are new and don' really understand how much they will need them later. Once this current large bunch of newcomers starts to get more endgame, and starts to craft, in the quest for better gear, those gem prices will more than likely creep up again - as by that point they will have better things to do than surveying.

[Spiritfingers]

Now that there is a larger playerbase and players have colonised the second and half the third room gem prices have stuttered around the 200 - 250 mark, but not selling. Amethyst you can get for +/-400 from player stalls. Redwalls for 100 as per usual.

Given the large number of gems you can make of just a few minutes doing surveys I would say you should probably make the most of it by selling for 175 or something in channel.

Some gems are worth more as they are more in demand. Quartz, Citrine, Garnet for example are for popular skills. Obsidian, Onyx are for favour and obviously Amethyst are for TP. Also with Gazluk arriving more people are using alternative teleport so i guess maybe green gems, and aquamarine may see prices rising.

However, soemthing to bear is mind is that things change. People farming gems and selling them now, as they are new and don' really understand how much they will need them later. Once this current large bunch of newcomers starts to get more endgame, and starts to craft, in the quest for better gear, those gem prices will more than likely creep up again - as by that point they will have better things to do than surveying.

I agree that prices have stalled because so many people have joined the game and many of them have surveyed a lot. Also, a lot of new players don't know the real value of certain gems. In short, this is probably a good time to stock up on gems you need because they are selling for cheap.

[Malice00]

As far as running out of money, as a sword swinger I am heavy into cooking and surveying. Surveying supplies are pretty expensive. The problem is not running out of money, it is NPC Vendors running out of money/buying goods from me. I must admit that my first month I had no understanding of the favor system. So now I am grind out pork for bacon and skins. Just not a lot of slots leftover for other NPC's favor items.

[Eachna]

Agreed, Amethyst for 300 is unreal, but I am up to 12 mining them. So far I have never seen anyone selling gems at the well. I will be more observant to that and try selling myself. Between cooking, carpentry and surveying money and supplies have been tough to manage, but thanks for advice.

So my next issue then is scrolls for recipes.
To start, use the crafts that you have to bootstrap yourself into favor with the various NPCs around Serbule and Eltibule.
Cooking is pretty good in Serbule. At least two NPCs who buy weapons will also accept foods for favor.
Carpentry is very useful for the longer term as you can eventually make staffs, which are easy weapons to craft and enchant and then you can meet requirements for "Likes 'x' equipment" favor.
Even though you don't mention it as as a craft, Skinning is an awesome money-maker. The skinner in Eltibule accepts hides as favor, which is a really easy way to be able to unlock soul mates with them.
Visit Sun Vale (you didn't mention it in your list of zones). There's two settlements there, plus another single vendor a lot of people like, plus a special area for special players. It's a lot easier to manage than Kur.

[Crissa]

I ran into someone on the trade channel unwilling to name a price, buying lapis x-x I've usually ended up vendoring lapis, but I had a dozen, so... But it wasn't worth the effort to argue with them.

What's with that?

[Wemedge]

I honestly don't recommend selling gems at all, to players included. Amethysts, maybe a case could be made. It's short term money. If you plan on being around and doing a lot in game, use the gems to raise craft skills. The items you can make will sell to a greater array of vendors, plus you can get in on work orders as well. And you can also transmute the items and use towards raising your aug skills.

I've never sold a single gem to either a player or vendor, and I've done pretty well money-wise. Your own preferences may lead you elsewhere, but just thought I would chime in with what worked for me.

[Tsugumori]

Surveying is considered base. Something easy to start off with. Entry-level trade skill.

While some may make the case for other trades, surveying is by and large one of the easiest. Why is this? New players don't really have the lay of the land, surveying helps with this. Its not only about tracking down gems or slabs, (which level three skills: Surveying / Geology / Mining), its also about making your way across the map. This teaches new players:
- About mobs in that area
- Using their map
- Using their crafting tab
- Its a motivation boost to have so many things level up, levelling makes the player feel good, not to mention your inventory gets filled with lots of new exciting things.

Surveying, being entry level, means that only so much of a profit can be made. Being objective, you're completely reliant on other players if you want to make money. This isn't a good thing. Much like a river, what people buy changes over the course of time. This isn't all bad though, the other MAJOR element of surveying is: FAVOR. Quite a lot of NPCs have favourite gems or like slabs. Surveying helps new players with favor! There are a lot of ways to make money, surveying is really just a start though, not the be all and end all.

That said, it doesn't hurt to have gems stashed away for when the need is there in the community.


TL;DR

+ Don't expect to make lots of money from surveying
+ It has far more applications than simply money

[Crissa]

Gee, I always made lots of money from surveying. And that was before players were paying hundreds for gems!

[Tagamogi]

I honestly don't recommend selling gems at all, to players included. Amethysts, maybe a case could be made. It's short term money. If you plan on being around and doing a lot in game, use the gems to raise craft skills. The items you can make will sell to a greater array of vendors, plus you can get in on work orders as well. And you can also transmute the items and use towards raising your aug skills.

I've never sold a single gem to either a player or vendor, and I've done pretty well money-wise. Your own preferences may lead you elsewhere, but just thought I would chime in with what worked for me.

How were you initially making money to learn the more profitable craft skills and their recipes? You are correct that gems make more money when used as part of other craft skills, but leveling those skills requires money from somewhere.

I always thought of selling gems as a pretty reasonable way to raise temporary cash when starting out. Sure, you'll want more gems later, but the odds are fairly good you'll be able to buy them from other players for a similar price then. Or you can just do some more surveys yourself and get gems. In my mind, they are not an ultra-rare must-hoard item like stomachs...

[Crissa]

Or you can just do some more surveys yourself and get gems. In my mind, they are not an ultra-rare must-hoard item like stomachs...Me too. I only kept Obsidian and a few of the basics so I could start another set of surveys.

[Wemedge]

How were you initially making money to learn the more profitable craft skills and their recipes? You are correct that gems make more money when used as part of other craft skills, but leveling those skills requires money from somewhere.

I always thought of selling gems as a pretty reasonable way to raise temporary cash when starting out. Sure, you'll want more gems later, but the odds are fairly good you'll be able to buy them from other players for a similar price then. Or you can just do some more surveys yourself and get gems. In my mind, they are not an ultra-rare must-hoard item like stomachs...

I was broke non-stop my first month or so. I was raising all of the trade skills at once, so every penny I made went into buying more skills, getting favor, etc.. But work orders came out a few weeks after I started, and I would sell tanned skins to a few vendors, along with cooking and alch stuff. Plus I sold gear from leveling up my combat skills, there are several vendors that buy gear in serb and elt. Then halfway through my second month I turned a corner and the gold started rolling in.

[Eachna]

How were you initially making money to learn the more profitable craft skills and their recipes? You are correct that gems make more money when used as part of other craft skills, but leveling those skills requires money from somewhere.

When you start the game there's no real way to make money without knowledge of the systems (without knowing "which" NPCs to focus on, without knowing which early crafts/recipes are the most profitable, without knowing hidden favor gifts, etc.)

A player going in blind just dumps stuff around the map at random until they hit a couple useful breakpoints and can put what they've learned together into a cohesive plan.

I knew I needed to unlock favor with NPCs from the loading screen, but because I was avoiding reading the wiki I didn't know which ones were the most useful. So I would return to town with full bags and walk to each NPC, passing the favorite loot in my bags to each one. At the end, I'd sell the few random items no one wanted. I burned a lot on raising favor with NPCs like Sir Corth, Rita, and Blanche before I figured out they didn't give a return on that investment.

Just like Wemedge, I eventually turned a corner and had high enough trade skills and enough NPC favor to be able to sell stuff profitably. But the trip there was a huge sink of what was likely 10,0000+ councils of favor materials and recipes with almost no way to generate cash.

[Tagamogi]

Vendoring leather rolls is actually a great idea. I've hoarded pretty much all the skins I got because I'm used to leather being hard to find in other games and I knew I wanted to level leatherworking as soon as I could actually afford any of the recipes. I'm at 66 leatherworking now and I still have a couple leftover stacks of crude and decent skins... And I ran out of gems long ago and started buying them from other players.

It's definitely rough starting out, and not knowing which of a million items filling up your bags are useful and which are better sold. When I started, I used most of my items on favor which at least meant that I wasn't close to hitting any NPC's money cap because I had nothing left to sell. ;) (And I don't think Sir Coth is a useless NPC to be friends with. He's 100% worth every favor item just for that unforgettable discussion about elves and snakes. In more practical terms, I still sell all my artwork and treasure-type items to him.)

[Eachna]

(And I don't think Sir Coth is a useless NPC to be friends with. He's 100% worth every favor item just for that unforgettable discussion about elves and snakes. In more practical terms, I still sell all my artwork and treasure-type items to him.)

Corth is *entertaining* as are Rita and Blanche. Rita and Blanche also have some quests as well as other entertaining dialogues. What Rita, Blanche and Sir Corth don't pay back on is the opportunity costs of giving them valuables very early in the game when a new player is desperate for vendors, storage, and trainers.

Here's another example that may make what I'm talking about clear.

There's two NPCs that buy weapons. NPC A also buys armor, and has storage. NPC B also teaches a combat skill and a trade skill. If you're not interested in that particular trade/combat skill pair, NPC B isn't as valuable to you as NPC A. Everyone will have both weapons and armor to sell, and everyone will want storage. Not everyone wants that trade skill or combat skill.

NPC B isn't "worthless" if you don't want his skills. But, rushing to buy favor with him is a bit of a waste early on, it slows down your favor gains with NPC B.

Invest in 10 NPCs like that (not useful to you for your first month) and you're broke, skill-less, recipe-less, and confused for a month :D. And then you turn a corner or you "catch up", and your character has relationships with all the NPCs in Serbule and things start looking good.

The game is about exploring and having fun. It shouldn't be an exercise in efficiency pathfinding (if you want that game it's not here). But experienced players asking how people could not have money (because they have everything in Serbule unlocked) are forgetting or overlooking how obfuscated the choices are when you first step into town.

To put the topic BACK ON SURVEYING and easy/hard starter skills ... surveying is a core skill for anyone who wants to craft. It's not complicated to use the skill (make a map, click the map, run to the dot, click the map again). But, stacks of paper and ink are expensive for a new player and it's a little complicated as far as figuring out how to budget for it and how to sell the metal and gems profitably.

Leatherworking is an easy skill :D. Kill the pig. Skin the pig. Rub the pig skin with extremely cheap tannin. Sell the leather roll to Therese. That's an "easy" skill for new players to get into.

[Tagamogi]

But experienced players asking how people could not have money (because they have everything in Serbule unlocked) are forgetting or overlooking how obfuscated the choices are when you first step into town.


Oh, I totally get not having money. I'm just confused at the concept of having enough to sell to an NPC to exhaust their money pool, when you could just be giving everything away for favor. ;)

But right, back to surveying. I had a pretty easy time with surveying as a new player, which I think was due both to some luck and limited playtime. The luck came in when I picked up a couple work orders for blue spinels and fluorites at the Docks that promised to pay me some pretty staggering sums. So, I started gem surveying to collect on that cash. It felt quite natural to progress from there to other gem work orders in Eltibule and Sun Vale - camping the Sun Vale board for a couple days to collect more gem orders was definitely worth it. Leftover gems I mostly gave away as favor which gave me rewards with Yetta and Kleave that I wasn't even trying for at the time. I also repeated the gem work orders on an alt because they were that easy to do.

The limited playtime helps with pretty much everything - NPC money pools and work orders reset quite fast for me relative to the time I spend playing.

There is advice on one of the login screens to focus on a single crafting skill initially, which I think is actually wrong - it seems much easier to me to slowly level multiple skills at once as you find a market for their products. So, I'd only do surveying while there are work orders to fill, and then move on to another skill for a while to do those work orders, etc. (And then storage becomes a problem, but that's another thread.)

[Eachna]

Oh, I totally get not having money. I'm just confused at the concept of having enough to sell to an NPC to exhaust their money pool, when you could just be giving everything away for favor. ;)

Heh. Oh, I see what you're saying now. Not all the vendors in Serbule start vending at no favor, right? So it's easy to exhaust the few who do while still giving away a lot of favor gifts.

[Crissa]

Heh. Oh, I see what you're saying now. Not all the vendors in Serbule start vending at no favor, right? So it's easy to exhaust the few who do while still giving away a lot of favor gifts.Yeah, but you give less than a single session in gifts and they're vendoring. If you're selling gems, well, sure maybe you'll run the jeweler out, but he accepts all of those as gifts, too. And multiple vendors buy the low-level stuff and the mushroom vendor just doesn't care and...

The only vendor I've ever pushed out of coin was Marna, but you can put her out with a single item even at high favor.

[Trapsin]

What I've started doing now is selling until they run out of cash and then giving them stuff for favor after that, or once they are low on funds, selling what no one around me will take as favor and then giving the items they will take for favor.

[alleryn]

What I've started doing now is selling until they run out of cash and then giving them stuff for favor after that, or once they are low on funds, selling what no one around me will take as favor and then giving the items they will take for favor.
I think this is a good strategy. I tended to give most everything away as gifts, which left me with very little cash and the vendors all with full unutilized pools.

[Malice00]

So, let's update. I was 45ish when I posted the original post. Now I am 53ish and have become soul mates with 4 NPC's and most of the rest I am friends or better. Money is no longer an issue, I have over 40K and two skills in the 51 to 60 range. Thank you to all commenters, you had great ideas and tricks to making game play easier and more fun. While I like playing team sports, I like the possibility of solving the puzzle without some guild member pushing me to max out and holding my hand to accomplish the task.