Multiple Guilds

[jacksin125]

I saw someone else post their recent forum thread here, so I thought I should do it as well:

I have seen this idea in a few other games, and personally loved it, for a few reasons. The idea is simple: Allow the player to have multiple guilds. The player would then set one of those guilds as their main one. Their main guilds would be the one they could access the inventory of, and other stuff like that. However, the player would be able to change their main guild at will. I'll give you a few examples of when this idea would help:

1. Most of the time, By the time a player becomes a werewolf, they're already in a guild. This means that even if a guild for werewolves was created (I mean, Eric did say werewolves were supposed to work together), most werewolves would probably not be in it. Not only that, but with the ability to change your skills so easily, playing as a werewolf only all the time would probably get boring fast. With this system, when you wanted to play as a werewolf, you could set your main guild to the werewolf guild you're in, and play with a ton of other werewolves. When you are done playing as a werewolf, you can switch your main guild back to the guild you usually play with.

2. I have seen a few people interested in working on surveying as a group, in order to do it more efficiently. Someone at one point said on global that they were making a surveying guild in order to help with organizing stuff like that. I, personally, would love to join a guild to work together for surveying, but not if it means I cannot stay in a guild that also does dungeon runs. Yes, it is possible to just organize stuff like that in global, but there are already times when global chat runs a mile a minute, nevermind when the game goes on steam. It's a lot better to create a guild, so only the people who are interested have to get spammed with it.

3. Right now if you join a bad guild, you'll generally stick with it because a) you found a few friends, and/or b) you're afraid of not being able to find a better one, and then never being allowed back into your old guild, and/or c) You've never been in another guild, so you don't realize that yours is bad. If you were allowed to be in multiple guilds, you would be able to try out other guilds and find which one is best for you, without having to leave your current one.

4. Let's say you happen to be a part of a gaming group, but joined PG on your own. You found a good guild, made some new friends, and enjoy being a part of it. So you tell your gaming group about PG, and a bunch of them want to join. However, they want to create their own guild, and you don't want to leave your current one. If you're allowed to join multiple guilds, np. If you can only have one guild, gl.

5. Allowing people to have multiple guilds would actually seriously encourage the growth and creation of new guilds. Right now, joining a new guild means you're stuck with that guild's small inventory and limited ability to do guild quests. This means that most people will probably not want to create or join a new guild when they can join an already big and powerful one, which already has all the benefits unlocked, and a ton of other people to do the lion's share of the work in guild quests. If people could join multiple guilds, then there wouldn't be as much of a loss, so people would be more willing to do it.

Yes, for a lot of this stuff, you could use third party applications, but a) I find alt-tabbing every few minutes incredibly annoying and immersion-breaking, and b) If people are creating a Discord chat channel just for werewolves (which is basically like creating a guild, only not ingame), then wouldn't it be better to just allow them to create another ingame guild?

I would imagine the guilds would be account-wide. I would also imagine that people would be able to have probably 5 guilds (1 main guild, 1-2 side guilds (like a gaming group guild), 2-3 special guilds (like a werewolves or druids or animals only guild). However, those parts would probably depend upon the vision for the game (So far, it seems everything is character-specific, so the guilds might not be made account-wide). Even if my idea doesn't make it into the final game, I hope it is seriously considered!

[Warlock]

I do like this idea, but I think in terms of coding this may be a nightmare. I myself don't code, so I can't say for sure however. You mentioned that you've seen this system elsewhere. Out of curiosity, what other games have this system?

Also, branching from your ideas, maybe we keep the original guild system as it is, but make clans for specific professions or 'statuses', such as werewolves. So one would have their own original guild, but also have these mini profession or werewolf clans that they can use simultaneously just for the sake of a unified platform on which communication can take place, but not things like item sharing, which is reserved for guilds only.

[cr00cy]

@ Warlock - on top of my head - ESO. You can be part of up to 5 player-made guilds at teh same time. I dont recall every seeing this in any other mmo tho.

I like this idea - for exampel guild im in is mostly dead - beside me almost n one plays regulary atm (including guild leader) But i dont wnat to leave becasue i hope alll this peopel will come back one day.

[Greyfyn]

While I am not transferring my response to this forum, I will say again that guilds are not the only way to make friends and have group activities. The alpha population is small enough that we all work together to make things happen. With people coming and going, guilds will tend to be mostly full of players who haven't played in a while. So here's an example--if five guilds were already in place, it is likely that you would already have mostly deadish guilds and STILL need to change guilds. If active guilds are your need, then you will pretty much need to be on the move. That's an mmo standard--it was certainly true in ESO.

Having said that, the two things that make guilds work in the first place are leadership and friends. Leadership comes in all forms--just watch Global chat and you'll be able to identify leaders. There are many who will include people in groups! As for friends, being in a guild does not guarantee anything; even with five guilds, it is probable that the people you like to play with are in various guilds that you're not in. This is all normal.

When new players come to a game, they are looking for a nice place to be and people to talk to. Guilds fit that need. However, Project Gorgon itself fills that need. So if you focus on guilds, great! But it isn't necessary to enjoy playing this game.

[Warlock]

Greyfyn I do agree with you on your point of the global community of Project: Gorgon fitting the need of guilds, however I find that statement to be only fitting for the current state of the game, and its continued state until launch. Once the game launches on Steam and if all goes well, hopefully meaning more players and a successful launch, then we'll be seeing a lot more people than a couple of hundred players on the servers at any given time. I think since the chance of the community of Project: Gorgon in the future being too large to be managed personally, the idea of a system of 'multiple' guilds being implemented is a nice idea to consider.

[Easylivin]

For guild organization it would be nice to have "houses" or "branches" within a guild. Basically a mini guild that can manage itself with different rules.

That being said, guilds appear to be in their early stages of development and it would be nice to have a blog post discussing the vision for guilds.

[jacksin125]

If the devs would prefer not to have multiple guilds per player, then having groups like that would certainly be another option. And as for games that have multiple guilds - ESO, Guild Wars 2, Trove, GTA Online, all off the top of my head.

[Crissa]

Hmm, I do like the idea of temporary or secondary working groups. Or perhaps associate levels in guilds, rather than full members?

Being locked into one guild when your friends might be here on different days is tough.

[Spiritfingers]

My main issue is how would PG deal with guild credits? If you have 5 guilds to do guild quest, it potentially can speed up getting credits faster than what was intended.

[jacksin125]

I think you would probably only get guild credits if the guild completing the quest is set as your main when the quest is completed. However, that may not even be necessary, because people may not be willing to devote the resources to a "secondary guild" (like a werewolf guild). I think it would have to be tested first though.

EDIT: not only that, but there are suggestions to make how many guild credits you get dependent upon how much you do. So if you had multiple guilds, you could get more creds than right now if you helped with every quest from every guild, and less creds than right now if you didn't help with any of the quests. As of right now, the guild system is not finished enough to worry about things like that, as they will probably be changed later anyway.

[Hood]

Probably the first MMO with this functionality was Guild Wars 1. Your guild could join an Alliance with other guilds and you'd all have access to both Guild Chat and Alliance chat. It was designed for the purpose of both Guild vs. Guild and faction farming coordination.

[ANT3RA]

I apologise for the necro post.

For the love of all that is holy, DO NOT implement patronage to multiple guilds. If you do, do not call them guilds.

I will use Elder Scrolls Online as the main example why i feel this way. You can be part of 5 guilds in ESO. They should not be called guild, as this is a misconception in that game. read on an you will see why.

I was a guild master in Elder Scrolls Online prior to my addiction to PG. That guild died way before i hit PG. I have been a guild master in most mmos I have played, even in Asherons Call back when WoW was an itch in someones ball sack.

Our ESO guild was large and active, our guild was vibrant, we had many many many many guild events and a very lucrative lottery, our guild was happy and friendly. But was it???

As a result of the 5 guild mechanic. Over time, the idea of being in a "guild" in the traditional sense (think WoW, AC, FF14 - Insert one guild games here) was watered down to such a poor state that people no longer wished to claim a guild as their own, but rather a staging area for different things, a placeholder if you will. Their patronage and homage to the idea of a united front as being part of a single guild just disappeared. This has various serious ramifications as a result.

Patronage unto multiple guilds rather then a single guild means that patronage is fleeting at best as soon as something better comes along. People just leave, period. This is bad for many reasons.

Switching your main guild at will, will kill the concept of a traditional guild, if that becomes a thing.

If you dont like your guild, leave, do not shop around while staying in your current guild, or while looking for a better something else. As a guild leader in most games i play, to me that is worse then stealing from the guild chest. If i cant have your trust to stay in my guild and follow me while i serve you as your leader, what is the point in joining my guild in the first place. There is a /leaveguild or whatever function implemented for a reason.

Once you join a guild you have a personal responsibility to do whatever you can to make that guild grow and flourish. The guild does not exist for you, you exist for the guild, remember that. This is the case for all ranks, including the guild master. Without you (and others), the guild ceases to exist, both in function and ability.

You mentioned a number of things that can easily be organised through your friends list and a party invite.

What drives me to a single guild. Unity. Home. Family. Patronage. Honor. Notoriety. Infamy. Strong Bonds. Close Friends. Comfort. Serving my constituents.

What drives me away from a multiple guild structure. Fleeting patronage. Who cares attitude. Pfft I can come and go as a I please. Im running with such and such guild tonight. Sorry Im progressing somewhere else. I dont need you. Its all about me.

Do you get the drift? Multiple guilds in ESO have killed that game for me in a sense, as I could not find my feet, my home so to speak. Even as a guild leader it was tough to stay focused at the task ahead of me. I understand why they did the multiple guild thing. It was mainly due to guild traders. That is also a cluster fuck now, mainly controlled by one entity, in a huge monopoly.

In my opinion, they should stick to a one guild structure. They could though introduce a system whereby you are a member of a club/group/society/scene etc where you can share ideas, have your own specific chat channel etc.

But stick to one guild. If you dont like your guild and feel you can get a better deal somewhere else, simply leave. Whatever you do, do not string your guild members along by looking for other guilds while they think everything is fine on your end.

Guild unity and fealty in games is one of my bugbears. I am very passionate about it. I am a servant of my people.

Regards
Ant

[Tsugumori]

In terms of guild credits I think it should depend on how many guilds you're a part of. (In the hypothetical scenario where this idea is active..)

- Part of 2 guilds? Half credits upon completion.
- Part of 5 guilds? A fifth of the credits awarded.

[Crissa]

The whole idea of a guild as something to be proud of is bizarre.

[alleryn]

The whole idea of a guild as something to be proud of is bizarre.

Not saying i disagree, but... why, exactly? In "normal" culture it's umm... normal.... to have a greater sense of loyalty to your family/tribe/country than to other people, and to take pride in that, isn't it?

[rastaah]

Dark Age Of Camelot had an outstanding system as your guild could join a group of guilds and you all shared that chat. It was amazing. I really have missed that feature. Not sure what they were called but want to say Alliances.

[Hoxard]

I don't like the idea of being a member of multiple guilds due to guild quests, storage, etc.

I do however, love the idea of formal groups of players(let's call them clubs for example) that are independent of guilds and have no limit on members or how many you can join.
I think they would be an excellent way to solve the issues of being tied down to one guild without circumventing the limitations imposed by storage guilds, complicating guild quests or undermining guild loyalty.
As long as clubs have the following features, they would serve all the purposes of a guild without any of the aforementioned issues
- A permanent chat channel shared between all members
- A member roster
- A way to show off your membership to other players (Perhaps optional)
- Leadership positions (For recruitment, roster management and general organization)
- A means to post messages for all members to see and reference (For event organization and management)


With this system, there could be a lycan club to help organize groups for full moon quests, for new lycans to ask for help and advice, and for experienced lycans to discuss build options or what shadow feint is good for.
There could also be clubs for other purposes, like that surveying club mentioned, or a druid club, or a player run shop of sorts(I know I've seen multiple people who offer commissions for crafted items and gardening produce).
For a while, custom chat channels seemed to serves this purpose quite well, but the practice seems to have died out, perhaps because the only way to advertise custom channels is in global, which is ineffective and annoying. If there was a little club sign in Serbule where you could scroll through clubs and apply to the ones that interest you, then things like class clubs and player run shops could stick around without constantly annoying global.

[ANT3RA]

The whole idea of a guild as something to be proud of is bizarre.

So using that as an example, why would you join a guild?

If your answer is I dont or I wont, then this discussion does not concern you.

If your answer is something else, I am genuinely curious as to why you would choose to join a group of people that have similar interests and strive to make those interests flourish, by whatever means necessary, and then not be proud of your achievement as a group in doing so.

I can only assume you have not been part of many long term committed guilds who actually gave a shit about how you felt or how you progressed in a game. Guilds that helped you do that particular something that needed doing or gave you advice at the drop of a hat.

You are playing a game where you can be a pig or a duck. What part of bizarre is being proud of your guild fall into?

[Easylivin]

I don't like the idea of being a member of multiple guilds due to guild quests, storage, etc.

I do however, love the idea of formal groups of players(let's call them clubs for example) that are independent of guilds and have no limit on members or how many you can join.
I think they would be an excellent way to solve the issues of being tied down to one guild without circumventing the limitations imposed by storage guilds, complicating guild quests or undermining guild loyalty.
As long as clubs have the following features, they would serve all the purposes of a guild without any of the aforementioned issues
- A permanent chat channel shared between all members
- A member roster
- A way to show off your membership to other players (Perhaps optional)
- Leadership positions (For recruitment, roster management and general organization)
- A means to post messages for all members to see and reference (For event organization and management)


With this system, there could be a lycan club to help organize groups for full moon quests, for new lycans to ask for help and advice, and for experienced lycans to discuss build options or what shadow feint is good for.
There could also be clubs for other purposes, like that surveying club mentioned, or a druid club, or a player run shop of sorts(I know I've seen multiple people who offer commissions for crafted items and gardening produce).
For a while, custom chat channels seemed to serves this purpose quite well, but the practice seems to have died out, perhaps because the only way to advertise custom channels is in global, which is ineffective and annoying. If there was a little club sign in Serbule where you could scroll through clubs and apply to the ones that interest you, then things like class clubs and player run shops could stick around without constantly annoying global.

An ingame chat room meets some of these requirements.

I would start there and suggest additional features for things the chat room doesnt meet the needs of.

Chat room MOTD, mods, owner, are all reasonable suggestions.

[Crissa]

Not saying i disagree, but... why, exactly? In "normal" culture it's umm... normal.... to have a greater sense of loyalty to your family/tribe/country than to other people, and to take pride in that, isn't it?

There is? Why? It's stupid.

Guilds online are just private clubs. Outsiders don't see anything. What's there to be proud of?

[alleryn]

There is? Why? It's stupid.

Guilds online are just private clubs. Outsiders don't see anything. What's there to be proud of?
I haven't played a lot of MMOs but sometimes i'll get a sense just from people's guild tags or whatever of what guilds tend to be more friendly/helpful than others. Guilds tend to form group identities, some might be more fun or more principled or what have you, so that could be one reason to take pride i guess.

[Niph]

There is? Why? It's stupid.

Guilds online are just private clubs. Outsiders don't see anything. What's there to be proud of?

In PG, not much, but in other games guilds can win events and brag about it. In Everquest there is even a tool to compare guilds by their achievements, and sort them. I know, I was in the 4th for some time. :)

PG doesn't have (and probably won't have in the foreseeable future) massive, guild-wide events. But it has some guild flags (hardcore and animal), so you could brag about being in the animal-only guild, supposedly showing your "dedication" to sticking to an animal form. Something to be proud of? YMMV.

[Crissa]

If your answer is something else, I am genuinely curious as to why you would choose to join a group of people that have similar interests and...That's not what a guild is, though.

It's a game mechanic of some loose definition of accounts who share a vault.

[ANT3RA]

...That's not what a guild is, though.

It's a game mechanic of some loose definition of accounts who share a vault.

So what you are saying is that members of a guild do not share similar interests? Furthermore, people only join guilds for storage access?

This is very interesting. You may have single-handedly turned every major mmo guild mechanic and ideology, in the past 20 odd years, on its head with that comment.

I assume that guild raids are a myth? Guild events such as lotteries, trivia, dungeon runs, leveling parties, crafting days etc are a fallacy? I could have sworn these were all considered similar interests when members of the same guild participate. I must have been delusional for the past 25 years.

How wrong was I to assume that guilds were a formal gathering of people that shared common interests and ideas and used that as a basis for game activities.

Maybe you should stick to commenting on the social intricacies of candy crush, because you have no clue on mmo guild structures. Google is your friend.

/mindblown

Edit: By your definition and mindset you are saying that a family is a loose social definition of humans who share a fridge.

[Khaylara]

By your definition and mindset you are saying that a family is a loose social definition of humans who share a fridge.

You mean it's not?!:confused:

[Tagamogi]

I share my fridge only with my closest family.

[Crissa]

In my twenty years playing online, I've never seen a guild where the users involved shared anything like interests or ideology, or any game mechanics which encouraged it.

Guild raids aren't an interest. They're an event. One that doesn't require a guild in-game to happen. None of that has anything to do with the guild mechanic in game, and I've yet to se a game that truly the guild mechanic helped it happen.


Edit: By your definition and mindset you are saying that a family is a loose social definition of humans who share a fridge.
That's a serious straw-man you're sitting on. Careful you don't get burnt.

[Khaylara]

In my (also 20) years of online gaming I have never joined a guild I had no common interests with. Why else would a player join a guild?! Common interests are diverse you know, from a common interest in PvP, to topics that you chat about in guild channel, races/classes you are interested in playing and a particular guild is interested in recruiting etc. Even generic requirements like "be nice" denote a common interest-create a nice image/reputation for the guild members and for the guild as a whole.

In the previous games I've played I was guild master most of the time and built a guild from the ground up several times. I never ever recruited people who had nothing in common. If you only recruit chars (as opposed to people) that fit certain requirements and are ideal for "guild mechanics" (aka be able to win a GvG event, steal a boss etc) that guild won't last very long.
I'm opposed to the idea of multiple guilds because being in one requires a bit of loyalty and involvement from a player. Obviously this doesn't apply to "storage/alts" guilds.

[ANT3RA]

In my (also 20) years of online gaming I have never joined a guild I had no common interests with. Why else would a player join a guild?! Common interests are diverse you know, from a common interest in PvP, to topics that you chat about in guild channel, races/classes you are interested in playing and a particular guild is interested in recruiting etc. Even generic requirements like "be nice" denote a common interest-create a nice image/reputation for the guild members and for the guild as a whole.

In the previous games I've played I was guild master most of the time and built a guild from the ground up several times. I never ever recruited people who had nothing in common. If you only recruit chars (as opposed to people) that fit certain requirements and are ideal for "guild mechanics" (aka be able to win a GvG event, steal a boss etc) that guild won't last very long.
I'm opposed to the idea of multiple guilds because being in one requires a bit of loyalty and involvement from a player. Obviously this doesn't apply to "storage/alts" guilds.

Thank you. Something that make sense.

Edit: Content deleted to keep things civil.

[BetaNotus]

In my twenty years playing online, I've never seen a guild where the users involved shared anything like interests or ideology.

I guess I should chime in here, but Chosen of Norala is made of a group of players who share similar interests. We're wolves.

[Khaylara]

Both of you guys should keep it civil so we can have a conversation otherwise the topic gets locked.:) Crissa is maybe not wrong because some clans/guilds do recruit only OP chars and put up some tough requirements for the members. Like "be always present for 18126735 raids, be cap level within a month, contribute with X materials" etc. Although I never join any guild of that type it's possible Crissa had experience with that particular type only so he/she would naturally have that opinion.

From my (limited) guild experience in PG there's no pressure here, in part due to the said guild mechanics, we have no PvP, no raids etc so the association in a guild is a bit more relaxed and more social (at least in the guild I'm in). Still I don't like the multiple guilds thing:)

[ANT3RA]

Both of you guys should keep it civil so we can have a conversation otherwise the topic gets locked.:) Crissa is maybe not wrong because some clans/guilds do recruit only OP chars and put up some tough requirements for the members. Like "be always present for 18126735 raids, be cap level within a month, contribute with X materials" etc. Although I never join any guild of that type it's possible Crissa had experience with that particular type only so he/she would naturally have that opinion.

From my (limited) guild experience in PG there's no pressure here, in part due to the said guild mechanics, we have no PvP, no raids etc so the association in a guild is a bit more relaxed and more social (at least in the guild I'm in). Still I don't like the multiple guilds thing:)

Thanks for putting me in place to some extent. Ill refrain from making snide remarks. Previous post edited (deleted).

My opinion stands though.

Guilds are a social construct in mmorpg's consisting of members who share similar interests. This is my opinion based on widely accepted fact. Like it or not.

[Crissa]

Best raiding groups I've been in were outside of any guild - let alone in-game guild - structure.

I can admit I'm wrong. A wolf guild, that's definitely a common interest and a game mechanic. Albeit not really one that benefits from the guild currently? But it's a good example of what could be done here.

I'm in favor of having more than a monolithic guild system. Maybe the guys you can meet up with on Friday night aren't the guys from your regular guild. Or aren't from one at all. Even in the real world, people are often part of more than one long-term, re-occuring group at a time.

We don't want a system that discourages people from interacting and regrouping in the open world, either. Right?

[alleryn]

I don't like the idea of being a member of multiple guilds due to guild quests, storage, etc.

I do however, love the idea of formal groups of players(let's call them clubs for example) that are independent of guilds and have no limit on members or how many you can join.
I think they would be an excellent way to solve the issues of being tied down to one guild without circumventing the limitations imposed by storage guilds, complicating guild quests or undermining guild loyalty.
As long as clubs have the following features, they would serve all the purposes of a guild without any of the aforementioned issues
- A permanent chat channel shared between all members
- A member roster
- A way to show off your membership to other players (Perhaps optional)
- Leadership positions (For recruitment, roster management and general organization)
- A means to post messages for all members to see and reference (For event organization and management)


With this system, there could be a lycan club to help organize groups for full moon quests, for new lycans to ask for help and advice, and for experienced lycans to discuss build options or what shadow feint is good for.
There could also be clubs for other purposes, like that surveying club mentioned, or a druid club, or a player run shop of sorts(I know I've seen multiple people who offer commissions for crafted items and gardening produce).
For a while, custom chat channels seemed to serves this purpose quite well, but the practice seems to have died out, perhaps because the only way to advertise custom channels is in global, which is ineffective and annoying. If there was a little club sign in Serbule where you could scroll through clubs and apply to the ones that interest you, then things like class clubs and player run shops could stick around without constantly annoying global.

This seems like a reasonable compromise to me.

[ANT3RA]

I'm in favor of having more than a monolithic guild system. Maybe the guys you can meet up with on Friday night aren't the guys from your regular guild. Or aren't from one at all. Even in the real world, people are often part of more than one long-term, re-occuring group at a time.

We don't want a system that discourages people from interacting and regrouping in the open world, either. Right?

You are absolutely correct about meeting with multiple groups of people, people outside a guild structure etc. This is perfectly normal in games, hence the need for friends lists, group finders and separate chat channels etc. There are other ways to facilitate this section of the gaming community. Being part of multiple player generated guilds is not it.

That's not what we are discussing here though.

We are discussing being part of more then one "guild" and ways to avoid watering down, by introduced game mechanics, long term, widely accepted, in game social structures. A guild in the sense of a like minded community of gamers who march under a common banner.

[Crissa]

That's not what we are discussing here though.
I don't think you've read the OP.

[Khaylara]

If I'm not mistaken OP joined 2 guilds on 2 separate chars, Holy Order and Asheron's legacy (apologies if I'm wrong). Since we all do pretty much the same thing, dungeon runs and guild quests I don't really see the point. I happen to be in HO, we run dungeons very frequently with either the AC guild or the aussie guild. Especially before the AC players joined, more often than not during server off peak times we'd always do runs with the aussie guild (timezones that pushed us together but they're also cool people). I don't see any need to join Andelas's guild though, it would be a bit overwhelming for me to do 50 people guild quests on 2 characters so obviously one of the guild quests will have to be put on the back burner (and it's not really fair for the guildmates imo).

If people want to be able to communicate with other guilds without whispering their friends my suggestion would be to go back to creating dungeons channels or, even better, use discord more:)

[Tagamogi]

Crissa is maybe not wrong because some clans/guilds do recruit only OP chars and put up some tough requirements for the members. Like "be always present for 18126735 raids, be cap level within a month, contribute with X materials" etc. Although I never join any guild of that type it's possible Crissa had experience with that particular type only so he/she would naturally have that opinion.

I'd argue that hardcore raiding is still a shared interest, so you still have a guild based on common interests. :p I consider preparing for raids and repeatedly wiping together to be an excellent community builder, too. I've been in steady raid groups and I've been in guilds, and I've usually felt far more attached to the raid group than the guild.

There is one slightly off-topic reason I like the idea of multiple guilds in PG: Storage. I occasionally play a couple alts, and I've been thinking about setting up a guild just so I can put all my common junk into a single spot that can be easily accessed by everyone from multiple locations. Of course, if I do that, I then lose the opportunity to join a guild just to be social. And storage should be a silly reason for joining a guild!

So, storage aside, I think I like the idea of clubs at least, or maybe even multiple guilds. I'm not a huge fan of guilds in general - I've seen too much drama of the form "you are a part of our guild so you can't play with those other people" or "I'm a member of your guild so you are obligated to entertain me." I guess the root problem there is really more human nature than the guilds themselves, but being able to belong to multiple organizations may make it more clear that it's ok for people to have friends and interests outside the guild. I've tried getting all the people I like to play and hang out with into the same guild before, and it just never worked that way. There was always a reason why some of my friends were in one guild and some in the other, and then I had to choose between guilds and ... eek.



I'm in favor of having more than a monolithic guild system. Maybe the guys you can meet up with on Friday night aren't the guys from your regular guild. Or aren't from one at all. Even in the real world, people are often part of more than one long-term, re-occuring group at a time.

We don't want a system that discourages people from interacting and regrouping in the open world, either. Right?

Yes, that exactly.

[Khaylara]

I wasn't referring to storage guilds (i forgot to mention that probably). I have one of those myself (I inherited one actually so if it's there i'm using it). It's not a real guild with people in it though.

In general I don't like the idea because it's exploitable in any game in a way or another. From "spying" when you have the GvG type of PvP in certain games to the credits system in PG. Join a char or two in every larger guild, pop up once in a while to get the credits and spend the credits. Hence "exploitable". I'm not saying everyone does it but it is a door that gets open when a player joins multiple guilds.

Clarifying what I said "some clans/guilds do recruit only OP chars and put up some tough requirements for the members" I didn't mean raiding etc. I meant putting pressure on the members to perform regardless of their possible real life schedule or gaming style. I personally dislike to be forced to drop what I'm doing to attend "mandatory guild stuff" and in general I don't want a "game job". Tell me "You have to be maxed by the end of the week or else" and I'm not gonna join your guild lol.

PS I have friends in P:G in pretty much all the guilds.

PPS Discord, Rita's room is waiting for you!

[Tagamogi]

Sorry, I think I wandered off-track a bit. This whole thread had me start wondering what a guild is anyway (if you get rid of the fridge ;) ), and what I want out of a guild, and then I thought of past guild experiences, and well, in short I'm confused.

If I go with the idea that a guild is supposed to promote social interaction among players, then it seems to me that being able to belong to multiple guilds should promote more social interaction. In theory. I've never played a game with multiple guilds though; I'm sure there are pitfalls.

I agree that people could abuse belonging to multiple guilds in order to soak up benefits. Some people seem to do that with a single guild membership anyway, so I'm not sure if multiple guilds would worsen that situation. Maybe.

I do like the club idea - it seems less drastic to have multiple loose clubs than multiple guilds. But then, if you can belong to many social clubs, what additional benefits does a guild bring? So, I'm stuck again. :)

( My primary experience with strict guild requirements has been with raiding, so I tend to think of that automatically. I haven't really encountered mandatory guild anything outside of a raiding context - that idea seems pretty odd to me. "Join our mandatory naked level 1 character run to Rahu or be kicked out of the guild?" It seems people who enjoy that can have fun doing it whether 60% or 100% of the guild participates...)

[Tsugumori]

PS I have friends in P:G in pretty much all the guilds.

We can't all be as pretty and popular as you!! ;-;

[Dibbuk]

Entirely my own opinion, and at the risk of flying in the face of the dev's recent nerfing of groups, the issue of multiple guilds could become moot if group size were INCREASED. A dungeon run with a group of 10-15 would allow higher skilled players to show lower skilled players how to handle the game.