Leveling support lines is a chore

[p1881]

I've just unlocked Mentalism and wanted it to pair with Pig, but it just takes ages to kill even 1 enemy on my level.

Is it intended as part of "chose what skills you want" that you can't pair 2 support skill lines with each other without suffering from sub-par damage?

[alleryn]

Is it intended as part of "chose what skills you want" that you can't pair 2 support skill lines with each other without suffering from sub-par damage?

I'm not sure if it's intended, but it certainly seems reasonable to me that picking two support skills would require sacrificing some damage.

If it were me i'd either:
1. Level up in a party or
2. Equip a more damage-oriented skill along with the support skill while you level it.

[Taledar]

The problem with having a truly open, skill based system is that it allows for sub-optimal pairing, I'll leave it to others to verify/validate if that is the case in this instance.

As alleryn mentioned you might find a better experience grouping or find a combat skill for solo play and maybe alternate the other two support skills.

That said, my play style is a bit odd because of my hours and is still sporadic at best. I've played solo the majority on my time just because I don't want to have to randomly bail on a group. I've leveled some odd combinations, usually playing below my level and sometimes dying a lot.

[alleryn]

Another thing i forgot to mention is that when you say "your level" you should consider that this is really tied to the level of your skills. If you dropped a level 50 skill for a level 10 skill, you'll almost definitely want to fight some easier mobs.

Still, taking advantage of a second skill 25 levels (this is the cap for ability-level difference) higher makes it much faster to level up skills than when you are just starting out. Hope it helps!

[spider91301]

I've just unlocked Mentalism and wanted it to pair with Pig, but it just takes ages to kill even 1 enemy on my level.

Is it intended as part of "chose what skills you want" that you can't pair 2 support skill lines with each other without suffering from sub-par damage?

All about the grind skills dont really get good till 50-70 depending on the skill also as someone as mentioned if you are doing support and not pure dps of course you going to not do as much damage as you would like

[Daguin]

Project Choregon has no sympathy for early levels, especially support skills. Best option I have found is to use a higher level combat skill (with decent dmg + mods on main gear) and lower level spells to enable use with a new skill. You have an advantage using your normally equipped mods, especially if they have DOT/AOE effects, to grind your secondary skill.

edit: All of this is moot if you are a new player. In that case, enjoy the long road ahead, and happy hunting!

[Greyfyn]

Hiya!

I enjoy playing Pigment. It is probably best however for group play, not solo, as it really needs someone else providing damage. Although I have the skills at 70+, I haven't fully explored the possibilities, but they look so fun, especially when we get "charged pig" form. If you're beating your head on a wall trying to solo level support skills, well... it's your head. You can stop any time.

I used unarmed to level both pig and mentalism. So that's my suggestion--look into using unarmed with your pig skills. Unarmed/Pig is a great combo. Being able to switch damage/support skills will make it easier to get around in the end.

Remember, there is an easy way and there's your way. Good journeys!

[p1881]

Project Choregon has no sympathy for early levels, especially support skills. Best option I have found is to use a higher level combat skill (with decent dmg + mods on main gear) and lower level spells to enable use with a new skill. You have an advantage using your normally equipped mods, especially if they have DOT/AOE effects, to grind your secondary skill.

edit: All of this is moot if you are a new player. In that case, enjoy the long road ahead, and happy hunting!

Still weird that having 2 damage skill lines will grant you some sort of synergy to kill stuff even faster, while having 1 support line you almost automatically sacrifice that synergy, as now you need a strong damage line that can solo carry your support line.

Additionally leveling a Beast form limits that even further due to limited compatibility with other skill lines.

And if your advice is to use a high level damage line to carry my support line, that just speaks volumes about the pitfalls of even having a support line active, especially if your damage line is around the same level as your support one.

[Tagamogi]

I think the problem is more level rather than mentalism being a "support" skill. Mentalism's initial abilities may be geared towards healing, but it has several damage dealing abilities hidden away on a trainer, plus a crafting skill that will increase overall damage done. Add in some mods as you get more gear, and you should be doing just fine on dps. Leveling and getting gear takes time of course, so if you are feeling impatient, you can try leveling mentalism with a higher level combat skill as has been suggested above.

I don't have a great deal of experience with either pig or mentalism, but FWIW, my husband has been playing pig/mentalism and loving it. He's been 70 for a few weeks now and it's still his favorite skill combo. (And yes, he solos, too.)

[Daguin]

Still weird that having 2 damage skill lines will grant you some sort of synergy to kill stuff even faster, while having 1 support line you almost automatically sacrifice that synergy, as now you need a strong damage line that can solo carry your support line.

Additionally leveling a Beast form limits that even further due to limited compatibility with other skill lines.

And if your advice is to use a high level damage line to carry my support line, that just speaks volumes about the pitfalls of even having a support line active, especially if your damage line is around the same level as your support one.
It's not a pitfall if you are using the support skill to support yourself or others. You trade off damage for the ability to stay alive and fight longer. You don't need a high damage skill to carry, but you will level faster if you are killing more things more quickly. It sounds like you would benefit from group play for leveling purposes.

[preechr]

I think the problem is more level rather than mentalism being a "support" skill.
Seems like it’s becoming common to hear new players reporting intense frustration immediately after starting something

[poulter]

I often run with Mentalism /Psychology (both level 70) - considered by many as a low damage, support focus combo - which it can be.

However, it also can be set up as a damage spec. that rivals many 'damage' combos - it all depends on how you build it.

At level 70, i use 5 Ment damage spells + 1 heal and under Psychology, i use 3 damage + 3 heals.
Main Ment damage spells used are:
Pain Bubble, Agonise, Electrify, System Shock, Panic Charge

I am able to easily solo Gazluk mobs with this combo.

Although, it isn't as quick as archery, fire, hammer, etc. in clearing mobs, it is as good as, if not better at soloing, than many combos and survivability is excellent.

In summary, it is all about what spells you use and how you mod your gear.

'Odd' combos can work, you need a bit of patience, understanding and the gear with appropriate mods to enable it to do so.

PS: Although not essential to the viability of the build, when it crits, the 705% critical damage modifier, does make for quicker fights.

[p1881]

It's not a pitfall if you are using the support skill to support yourself or others. You trade off damage for the ability to stay alive and fight longer. You don't need a high damage skill to carry, but you will level faster if you are killing more things more quickly. It sounds like you would benefit from group play for leveling purposes.

It is a pitfall if you're soloing.

What is the more likely case: quickly killing 2+ enemies having 2 damage skill lines, or using all your power and CDs on healing yourself and suffering to kill those 2+ enemies with only 1 damage skill?

Group play sounds good on paper but so far didn't work for me: either only a small handful of people are online when I play, or most of them are doing high-level stuff and so far I found no one to do low-level dungeons.

It doesn't help that there is a LFG channel, but it's almost always a barren wasteland.

[p1881]

I often run with Mentalism /Psychology (both level 70) - considered by many as a low damage, support focus combo - which it can be.

However, it also can be set up as a damage spec. that rivals many 'damage' combos - it all depends on how you build it.

At level 70, i use 5 Ment damage spells + 1 heal and under Psychology, i use 3 damage + 3 heals.
Main Ment damage spells used are:
Pain Bubble, Agonise, Electrify, System Shock, Panic Charge

I am able to easily solo Gazluk mobs with this combo.

Although, it isn't as quick as archery, fire, hammer, etc. in clearing mobs, it is as good as, if not better at soloing, than many combos and survivability is excellent.

In summary, it is all about what spells you use and how you mod your gear.

'Odd' combos can work, you need a bit of patience, understanding and the gear with appropriate mods to enable it to do so.

PS: Although not essential to the viability of the build, when it crits, the 705% critical damage modifier, does make for quicker fights.

And how much of what you just said is understood and can be easily replicated by a new player like me?

All I understood is: "Have lvl 70 in your skills, have all the abilities unlocked and have strong mods on your items that offer damage boosts".

How realistic is that for one like me with 23 Pig/20 Mentalism?

[Sheawanna]

well first and foremost , gear and modding . at level 23/20 look for gear with damage then if your having issues . I did start out with bat and ment .. leveled with no issues .. never tried pig but I'm sure pig offers damage . at the start don't worry about gear with healing or utility get gear with most % damage .

[poulter]

Realistic?
Depends on the individual and how willing they are to level the required support /crafting skills and grind councils i.e. how much time they spend in game.

Gear can be crafted, modified and augmented from mid-level 20s, but most people don't bother due to cost and that the gear is soon out-levelled.
The number of mods and augments at that level are the same for level 70, so it is more about gear quality and mods fitted than skill levels.

Differentiator:
It is a lack of knowledge of the game mechanics that stops many people from making the best of the gear they have e.g. what skills work efficiently with each other, what spells /attacks to use (and in what sequence).
You can't emulate a veteran's experience overnight, but you can get access to it via the wiki, this forum, help channel in game, guild forums, etc.

e.g. Not many people can solo the newbie island boss with a newly created toon with level 6 to 8 skills , but a veteran (who understands the game mechanics), can.

In summary, PG won't hold your hand or wipe your nose for you. You have to earn knowledge by playing, or by leveraging other people's experience.
Fortunately, the community likes to share and assist those who ask for help.

Already, previous answers have addressed some of your points and if you have more questions, no doubt they will continue to do so.

Regarding soloing: I would choose a damage and a support /healing skill over 2 damage skills

Regarding animal forms: it is best to avoid them until your toon is established (c. level 40) before main-lining one. They are not really intended to be used as first-time skills - after all, originally they were curses.

Personal opinion: Drop the pig form until you have mentalism at level 40+ (perhaps using sword, archery, unarmed, etc.), then use Ment to more easily level pig

[cr00cy]

And how much of what you just said is understood and can be easily replicated by a new player like me?

All I understood is: "Have lvl 70 in your skills, have all the abilities unlocked and have strong mods on your items that offer damage boosts".

How realistic is that for one like me with 23 Pig/20 Mentalism?

Ok, first of all, if you pick 2 support skills, you should expect lower damage output.

That being said, Mentalism can be build to function as perfectly fine damage skills. You just need proper gear, and put some work to learn all needed skills.

One thing you should look out for are enemies dmage resistances. Mentalism in mainly electricy and physic, and from what I saw, Pig is mainly crushign damage.

At lv 20, there is not much dfference in damage output between support skills and damage ones. Damage comes from mods,a dn at that level they are simply too weak to make significant diference.

I don't have much experience with pig, but from what I saw it has quite few damge skills. Pick Frenzy, maybe one healing ability, and fill rest with damging ones(dont pick Pig Bite thou).

For mentalism, pick all dmage skills you can, add Adrenaline Wave, and fill rest with what you want (I would suggest picking power or armor wave). If you unlocked Myconian cave (need to gather a lot of mushrooms to level up your Myconic skills) there is NPC there named Mu who teach four Mentalism skills - Revitalize, Agonize, Electrify and Pain Buble. I would suggets learning all of them, but you can skip first two if you are short on cash.

Once you get this skills, you can fill your whole Mentalism skill bar with damaging skills (I would pick at least one healing skill from Pig at this point), though I would still keep Adrenaine wave (since it boost dmage of all your skills, it will be better than one more combat skill).

Definitly pick Electrificy, sine it deals godod amge,a nd can be moddd to stun. Between Agonize and Pain Bubble I would pick Bubble - it has lower cooldwon, power cost, and deal more damge. But since you have to burst the buble, this damage is not instant. One thing I noticed about this skill, is that it apperently keeps track of damge types you used to burst buble, and counts incoming damge, not recived. So if you cast it on Brain Bug, and use psyhic attacks only, it wont deal any damage, since bugs are inmune to psyhic.

As for Agonize, it has this advantage that it deals its dmage instantly, and its direct health dmage, so it's better panic button, when you need this mob to die right now, no questions asked. Hoever it is psyhic damage, so keep it in mind.

[spider91301]

It is a pitfall if you're soloing.

What is the more likely case: quickly killing 2+ enemies having 2 damage skill lines, or using all your power and CDs on healing yourself and suffering to kill those 2+ enemies with only 1 damage skill?

Group play sounds good on paper but so far didn't work for me: either only a small handful of people are online when I play, or most of them are doing high-level stuff and so far I found no one to do low-level dungeons.

It doesn't help that there is a LFG channel, but it's almost always a barren wasteland.


Im a high level player I didnt even know that channel existed feel like doing a facepalm lol not even joking

[Temjiu]

I think the problem is more level rather than mentalism being a "support" skill. Mentalism's initial abilities may be geared towards healing, but it has several damage dealing abilities hidden away on a trainer, plus a crafting skill that will increase overall damage done. Add in some mods as you get more gear, and you should be doing just fine on dps. Leveling and getting gear takes time of course, so if you are feeling impatient, you can try leveling mentalism with a higher level combat skill as has been suggested above.

I don't have a great deal of experience with either pig or mentalism, but FWIW, my husband has been playing pig/mentalism and loving it. He's been 70 for a few weeks now and it's still his favorite skill combo. (And yes, he solos, too.)

I agree with this. Many of the support skills feel weak early on, but once you unlock some of the skill behind NPC's, they can hold their own. I started mentalism with hammer (after I leveled psychology and sword to 30 while unlocking hammer). this was smooth...hammer did enough damage, and remember, you only need to tag a mob with one skill in the skillset (or have a skill running in the background, like Psy health wave), and you get full XP for that skillset from the kill. I usually level my support skills with hammer or sword.

Tag the mob with a ranged skill in the support line, then kill it with a skill or two from sword. leveling your passive skills goes MUCH faster this way then trying to level 2 at once. get one support up to 15, then swap to the other and get it up to 15, then swap back get the first up to 20, etc.

Once your support skills level up, with the right gear they can pack a punch. I currently have mentalism at 28, and with a few purchased skills (pain bubble, electrify) and some gear it does well on it's own...I currently use Mentalism to level my beast skills as it does plenty of damage to kill fast in the lower areas and get those beast skills up to par. Gear is big...right now my Agonize (purchased mentalist skill) does a truckoad of damage, twice as much in it's DoT, and also reduces damage from each hit I get. very potent with the right gear combos.

gearing can be the toughest part. I tend to cheat a bit...I run through serbule crypt with my higher level abilities till I get to the chests in the dungeon, then switch over to my passive skills to open the chests. It's a quick and easy way to get some gear going for the skillsets that lack it.

[Golliathe]

To make a long story short you get experience in a combat class by killing monsters (/full stop). Classes designed to essentially play a support role have less damage and therefore take longer to kill things.

It would be super cool in my opinion if support classes got extra XP for healing grouped characters - maybe even just a 10 or 20 xp bonus here and there. I could see an "amazing heal save" bonus be a thing.

Basically I suggest you find a guild and get a few walk throughs on some dungeons for gear (this will add xp over time) or you level one class to 50 (or 70) and use powerful mods on a combat class to drag a support class to a higher level. So many people underestimate a level 50 combat class paired with a level 25 support class; note that almost anyone can powerlevel you to 25 in a very short time with a new class in the crypt.

[Celler]

To be honest I tend to gear for 1 skill, for me that is currently battle chem , then what would be the other skill sets buffs I use generic buffs instead, though they offer little you can switch to whatever 2nd skill and they at least add a little extra.

Then use this gear with what ever you want to lvl whilst farming mats and materials or just goofing off here and there adding exp to various skills over time.

Then when various skills are at good lvls combine them and farm/craft gear with your chosen skill set combos.