low level dunegons overcrowded by high level players

[PhoenixDown]

Hi,

I started playing project gorgon few days ago. It was quite a struggle at the beginning, but finally I figured out what actually works. I hit a level comfortable to go to dungeons and oh my. Why there are high level players 3 times my hp AoEing everything before I get a chance to hit anything? Is it really that profitable to farm low level dungeons? I went to 2 and it's the same story in both of them.

[Mikhaila]

It depends on which dungeon, and what it has to offer. But for instance, lets look at the goblin dungeon.

Transmutation is a high end skill. Using Trans and Augmentation you can reroll mods, move things around, and get the gear combos you want. Slow and expensive, but a very big deal. And you need to speak goblin to learn parts of it. To learn goblin you need to kill them and translate their business cards.

Next is art history. You need it to identify poetry books, and you want poetry for bard and the bonus levels. The best place to get lots of pictures the goblin dungoen.

Or maybe you just started augmentation/trans and need lots of level 1-30 gear to break down?

Or need to kill the aberattions for flesh for cold resist potions or ice fishing bait.

There are reasons high levels keep coming back to the low level dungeons.

[kazeandi]

There's not much left to kill during US prime time. I'm based in Japan, so my time is off a few hours, and it's still barely tolerable - certain places are always farmed (tower view cave, wolf cave).
That's not a highlevel player doing lowbie dungeon problem, but related: Not enough spots for the number of players.

[PhoenixDown]

So in short: there's plenty of reason to go back and farm lowbie dungeons pushing newer players out. It's not a good design if you ask me.

[INXS]

Since the AoE nerf I've seen places that used to be camped pretty much empty that is in higher lv zones, coincidence ?

[mcast]

I AoE farm lower dungeons purely for xp levelling alt skills. You get to the point after a few months when money is almost meaningless anyway. I guess this is what you're seeing.

[Arundel]

Hi,

I started playing project gorgon few days ago. It was quite a struggle at the beginning, but finally I figured out what actually works. I hit a level comfortable to go to dungeons and oh my. Why there are high level players 3 times my hp AoEing everything before I get a chance to hit anything? Is it really that profitable to farm low level dungeons? I went to 2 and it's the same story in both of them.

I believe the primary reasons are two. The first is a high level helping his buddy or guildmate through something.

The second reason is that this game requires high level players to gather materials (for crafting) from all types of enemies - and some of them can only be found in high quantity in lower level zones. I will give some examples of high density of items and the dungeons you see them in, but please don't take this as "nah there is a higher level zone for that" just a reason a high level might go there.

1. Spider legs = serbule crypt spider packs at start. one shot and loot quickly, hard to beat that rate if you really just need spider legs (for mushroom farming mainly)
2. Myconian cave = mushrooms, lots of them. and other random items that are nearly unique to the zone.
3. Kur tower (lower) = guano, I think its the only really good place to farm it in the game.

Tons of other examples of certain items that are in high quantity or only really available in a low level area. I mean sure you can go kill single pulls of that monster type in a higher level area but why do that when you can kill 8 or so of that thing at once and probably with a close to 100% drop rate.

This should be helped by creating more high level areas with these monsters, more zones, etc. Which they are doing, but its something for our developers to keep in mind as they add more zones and more monsters: don't forget to keep adding new places to get certain items if you want to avoid this issue especially as the game grows.

[kazeandi]

There's other skills you need to visit lower level places for, phrenology comes to mind. Only so many places to farm goblin or fae skulls.

[Roekai]

what this guy is complaining about is a major draw for me.

i'd be willing to bet my ballsack against a bag of peanuts that if this noob pm'ed whoever high level was in there like "hey im trying to level here - do you wanna switch to a different set and group with me or PL me through let me get a hit on the mobs as you collect your skulls or whatever" they'd be like "sure, and heres a bunch of advice and shit and a potential long lasting relationship with an guild or whatever"

[Celler]

I often farm in purple goblin and lower Kur tower, I try to be respectful and will leave if I feel I'm ruining it for others.

Have always felt the way game works would fall apart with larger player numbers. Too be honest am surprised it's worked as well as it has.
But then I imagine it's a little different from my viewpoint.

This often appears with folks rightly bitching about others burying stuff as there are not enough mobs for them.
Now on the face of it I agree it would be nice if folks buried there dead for other players.
I always do, not because I care greatly for others but because I always loot the corpses and burying is just one click.

But many are not so worried about the loot, they do not interact with the bodies at all. I honestly do not think it is right to expect a player to open the corpses to bury them when they don't even want to open them to loot them.
This is a floor in the game design, It's nice that we can choose to influence the respawn speed for ourselves, but should we really be expected to control the repawn speed for others too?
In tough dungeons I'd expect to be given shit if I started burying everything.

Perhaps an item for the racial slot that auto buries everything you kill after 15 seconds would allow those that do not wish to interact with the corpses to not get RSI.

Despite easier mobs in the lower lvl dungeons, soloing the bosses can still be good challenge for players that are a higher lvl than the dungeon.

Also as stuff is added it's often only added to lower lvl loot tables. All these staff,knife and flamestrike starter recipes drop from starter stuff.

When lower lvl dungeons are added obviously the higher end player still want the kudos for killing the bosses, so some will just blast through not giving a crap, though thankfully most I've met are more aware of others and will at least try to pass without causing havoc.

[PhoenixDown]

I played a bit more and it's not half as bad. I managed to get some farm, but still exploring early dungeons has been ruined for me. I actually got further into dungeon than I probably should have with a help from higher level players. Starting island dungeon was magnificent due to its size and limited number of players(I even partied with someone to get past plants). Dunno how can this be fixed without pushing out more early game content. Separate instances would be the easiest fix, but as far as I am aware it's not the game plan for gorgon.

[preechr]

Instanced Dungeons, in my experience, bring just as many if not more negatives, unfortunately

Right now, game content stops at level 70, so a lot of players that have maxed out their preferred combat skills are going back into the older areas and dungeons to raise up other skills and to gather materials for crafting, but when new higher level content is released, this will relieve some pressure on the low level dungeons

[Leycian]

Instanced Dungeons, in my experience, bring just as many if not more negatives, unfortunately

Right now, game content stops at level 70, so a lot of players that have maxed out their preferred combat skills are going back into the older areas and dungeons to raise up other skills and to gather materials for crafting, but when new higher level content is released, this will relieve some pressure on the low level dungeons

It doesn't have to be instanced per player, you can simply have a channel system. So as an example, you enter Serbule Crypt and it's utterly packed, you have an option in the top right that says 'channel 1', and there's another one listed 'channel 2', choose it and you're zoned in another open instance.

Any other decision I feel would have major drawbacks while this would be perfect. I'm not sure it's necessary to implement yet, but if the player pop really starts picking up then it'll eventually be necessary.

[Fhen]

I'm sure like many I have benefited from having high level players lurking around the low level dungeons when I was new. Not always good experiences but generally beneficial.

The issue I have found is the way high level players deal with moving past or around someone hunting level relevant mobs for them. Many times I have body pulled a mob and as the mob is approaching me someone will hit it and then run through the other ones close by, killing them all thus you get nowt. Then proceed to clear the area you were in before moving on and not bury the corpses.

Maybe this was the culture in Asheron's Call and the same here but coming from a game where respecting the area someone was fighting in was a big thing, this seemed bad form. Not the end of the world but personally I always try to avoid a group of mobs if someone is working through them. Old habits I guess.

[Kryshael]

Keep in mind that most of the games you guys are talking about had huge backing and a ton of developers. This game has 3? (I think). Them being able to do what they do is pretty dang good in my opinion and as soon as the store opens back up, I will be investing in their hard work.

[preechr]

It doesn't have to be instanced per player, you can simply have a channel system. So as an example, you enter Serbule Crypt and it's utterly packed, you have an option in the top right that says 'channel 1', and there's another one listed 'channel 2', choose it and you're zoned in another open instance.

Any other decision I feel would have major drawbacks while this would be perfect. I'm not sure it's necessary to implement yet, but if the player pop really starts picking up then it'll eventually be necessary.

Though most refer to P:G as having one "server" the game seems to be actually served up in instances now, so the real question is does selectable instances conflict with the developers' open world concept?

As long as we are not talking about party specific instances, which inevitably leads to speed runs and mass elitism imo, I could get on board with reasonable instances that effectively limited the amount of players in each dungeon at one time... I think going too far into true open eventually leads to camping and then camp rules and a whole lot of other types of issues

Would be interested to hear if any of the Alpha Old-Timers can recall this subject being addressed...

[Quanzhigao]

Though most refer to P:G as having one "server" the game seems to be actually served up in instances now, so the real question is does selectable instances conflict with the developers' open world concept?

As long as we are not talking about party specific instances, which inevitably leads to speed runs and mass elitism imo, I could get on board with reasonable instances that effectively limited the amount of players in each dungeon at one time... I think going too far into true open eventually leads to camping and then camp rules and a whole lot of other types of issues

Would be interested to hear if any of the Alpha Old-Timers can recall this subject being addressed...

I recall no instances being said, with the recent reddit AMA saying that guild/houses are the only planned instances.

If it is a severe problem I could see instances becoming a thing - Upping the amount of world spawns outside of dungeons would be a good temporary fix IMO.


Some other minor suggestions
Enable some kind of scaling FFA loot, like you can set it to fast so after 10 seconds other players may loot(and bury) corpses. Now a high level running through crypt doesn't have to stop to bury everything if they drop an AoE, others can bury it if they wish.
Make mobs ignore high level players(skeleton mage wont aggro on someone unless they're under 40 total level) - A lot of the time I kill everything is because I'm running to this one spot to kill this one thing and I drop an AoE so I'm not locked in combat for 30 seconds. This would also mean you don't get aggro'd by wolves while running through elt and stuff, which I see as nothing but annoying

[Niph]

As far as I know, the game engine (or code built on it) doesn't support combat in instances. So, you can have instanced houses or guild halls, but not dungeons.

This said, EQ didn't have instances for a long time and eventually support for them was added. But the philosophy of the game seems to preclude them, so if it happens it'll probably be only because success exceeded expectations by a long margin. Currently, in that case the plan would be to open more separate servers (again, as far as I know).

[Crissa]

Channeled instances would be a cool way to handle overflow of players in a zone, just as long as you were able to switch between them fairly easily (like if someone on the other side invited you).

The bigger problem is making sure higher level players don't treat them as just larger, faster spawning dungeons. So like maybe if you were in one, you can't get loot priority from the second for twenty minutes or something.

[Roekai]

why are we even talking instances with regard to population? instances, are, literally hitler (no /s).

if the population gets too big, then there should be more servers.

things SHOULDN'T be easy.

boo hoo, i have to compete with people for resources. boo hoo, theres not enough people.

challenges and idiosyncrasies are what make this game fun.

i love this game (can't play because i dont have a functioning computer, and cant afford to buy one because of impending legal troubles), but the MOMENT they even wavered on the firm stance of no instances, I am out.

[preechr]

Huh... Y'know I see this type of comment a lot among the blow hards in the line for Pantheon... Instead of throwing an iTantrum, would you care to explain why you feel so strongly about hitler instances?

Since you've taken such a strong stance on the issue, could you be more specific about the types of instances that would make you out? Like, I think we were leaning toward, as Crissa called them, channeled instances... Is that still hitler?

I doubt anyone would want you to be out

[Roekai]

instances ruin immersion for me (when you go to a crowded restuarant, is there another instance of the Ripe Tomato or do you have to wait?) and damages the community (I met most of my closer friends by competing for the same resources with them, which ended up sparking conversations after multiple encounters).

comparing instances to channeled instances, to me, is like comparing rape to statutory rape. yeah, one is clearly better, but i'd prefer no rape.

[preechr]

I definitely do not like dungeons instanced per party, and I'm not a huge fan of channels either, honestly, but when we talk about competing for loot I'm not sure we should be including level 40+ players in Serbule Crypts... On level players can't compete at that level

That's what the original post was about, but it also brings up the issue of what might happen when 50 on-level players hit a dungeon at the same time... There's competition and then there's reasonable competition

[Mikhaila]

So bear with me....

When a level 10 player says "Fire magic is too expensive!", we don't worry about it because we know that it's just a new player problem, and soon a couple hundred councils won't matter at all to him.

When someone says "i'm having trouble leveling, there need to be more pigs!" we don't worry about because in a couple of hours he'll move past pigs and it's not a problem.

Similar to those two examples, part of the current problem is due to 1) An influx of people from steam release 2) The game isn't finished and we don't have all the zones. Adding instances isn't a fix, it would take months to do in the current schedule with 3 developers. But in that same amount of time we'll see more new content, the player bump from steam will even out and people will be into more high end content, and this problem will mostly pass.

So yes, it may be an issue for some people right now, but they will be past it pretty quickly, and eventually the game will add more areas.

[preechr]

Its fine to have opinions, such as this isn't a problem and never will be, but bolstering your opinion with a presumption of how long implementing stuff would take is probably a step too far

I may have missed a blog post detailing how Eric's back end is setup, but unless you have some inside information none of us would know how difficult anything would be to add to the game

I know enough about Unity to be very impressed with what Eric's been able to accomplish so far, and based on what he has said in dev blogs he's charted a pretty clear path to finishing what will be a pretty awesome game that a lot of people with have fun playing for a long time... maybe we should talk about theory and leave the practical considerations to him?

High level players in low level areas can potentially create problems, and it interests me to think about solutions and compromises that players might accept, and there have been some suggestions here so far... Maybe you're right and it isn't really a problem, but maybe the discussion might be valuable some day too

[Mikhaila]

As you said, it's an opinion. I don't understand why you are upset that I posted an opinion, and further upset that I explained my reasoning?

But where do you get that I don't think it's a problem? I said "part of the current problem", then said "while some people have issues.." Both of those statements acknowledge that it is a problem

You start with "its fine to have opinons" , then tell me I shouldn't bolster my opinons, make presumptions, and should stick with talking theory.

[preechr]

Similar to those two examples, part of the current problem is due to 1) An influx of people from steam release 2) The game isn't finished and we don't have all the zones. Adding instances isn't a fix, it would take months to do in the current schedule with 3 developers. But in that same amount of time we'll see more new content, the player bump from steam will even out and people will be into more high end content, and this problem will mostly pass.

So yes, it may be an issue for some people right now, but they will be past it pretty quickly, and eventually the game will add more areas.

I'm not upset, and I apologize if my wording is confusing

I highlighted the part where it seemed like you were saying adding instances would take months to implement

We couldn't know that

I does seem like you were saying that the OP's issue wasn't really a problem, or at least a temporary issue due only to EA that wasn't worth fixing, which is, as I said, fine

[kazeandi]

Setting up a dungeon isn't a problem that would take months to solve. I built dungeons in Unity in a day. Let's assume it's more difficult here, for whatever reason (for example, no proper world building tools - I have no clue if that's a problem), we're still talking days, not months.

[Mikhaila]

Not that it wasn't worth fixing, and not that it's not a problem.

And I say months just because Citan seems to have a list of things he is doing now and wants to get done in the future. So yes, he could drop that current schedule and work on something and get it done in an earlier timeframe. But if he's keeping to his current schedule, then it would happen in a matter of months, even if he made the decision today to do so.

What I actually wrote was "it would take months to do in the current schedule with 3 developers.". The second half of the sentence is important. If he made an instant decision, and it's as easy as Kazeandi thinks it is, and it works correctly with minimal problems, then it might be done in days.

[PhoenixDown]

So bear with me....

When a level 10 player says "Fire magic is too expensive!", we don't worry about it because we know that it's just a new player problem, and soon a couple hundred councils won't matter at all to him.

When someone says "i'm having trouble leveling, there need to be more pigs!" we don't worry about because in a couple of hours he'll move past pigs and it's not a problem.

Similar to those two examples, part of the current problem is due to 1) An influx of people from steam release 2) The game isn't finished and we don't have all the zones. Adding instances isn't a fix, it would take months to do in the current schedule with 3 developers. But in that same amount of time we'll see more new content, the player bump from steam will even out and people will be into more high end content, and this problem will mostly pass.

So yes, it may be an issue for some people right now, but they will be past it pretty quickly, and eventually the game will add more areas.

I see your point however... I moved on to the next group mobs right now. Goblin dungeon. Still pretty crowded. When does that stop?
On the upside there's plenty overworld mobs to kill, but loot is really bad. Mostly rings, amulets and junk for crafting/gifts.

[snowe]

Hi,

I started playing project gorgon few days ago. It was quite a struggle at the beginning, but finally I figured out what actually works. I hit a level comfortable to go to dungeons and oh my. Why there are high level players 3 times my hp AoEing everything before I get a chance to hit anything? Is it really that profitable to farm low level dungeons? I went to 2 and it's the same story in both of them.

Reason 1: Self-Power Levelling A New Skill

The game, as designed, does not encourage someone to learn two new skills at the same time if they've already mastered another. If you're L(70)/L(70) Sword/Psych and you want to learn, say, shield... you learn shield and power level it with L(25+N)/L(N) Sword/Shield. To make matters worse, there's no reason to even care about shield-skill drops (and the entire economy that comes with that) because your sword skill is carrying you and that L70 sword/psych armor is going to be better than anything you see drop until L50 at least (and likely higher).

The Fix? The mods on armor should not affect your abilities if the abilities being used don't meet the requirements to equip the item. If I have a suit of L70/L70 Fire Magic / Shield armor, and I want to learn Psychology, the mods on that Fire Magic / Shield armor should not be active when Fire Magic / Psychology is active. This would encourage more gear sets, more use of lower level gear and nerf the comparative efficacy of self-power leveling one combat skill with another.

The problem? Self power-leveling alt skills is not only detrimental to the game... but unfortunately very, very fun. Many who embrace the game and all its eccentricities would be upset by such a nerf.

Reason 2: Farming

Whether spider bits for tailoring and alchemy, goblin bits for phrenology and the goblin tongue, or mushroom folk for their heartshrooms, farming low level dungeons is a thing made easier by being a high level character. There's nothing that kicks the excitement of an adventure in the teeth like a group of level appropriate newbies clearing through Serbule Crypt, only to have one higher level a-hole run past, pull the room and AE the adds and boss alike from under them.

The Fix? I think skill power levels should be dynamically capped in dungeons. If the dungeon is, say, a level 40 dungeon... and a L70 player runs in to AE farm it... have the skills on that L70 player's hotbar dynamically assume lower level variants no more than 15 levels higher than the intended level of the dungeon. I'm not married to 15 specifically, mind you, but the idea is that dungeons become less efficient farming places for higher level players.

The problem? High level character's stomping low-level characters by farming their dungeon crawl out from under them is not only detrimental to the game... but unfortunately very, very fun for those high level players. Many who embrace the game and all its eccentricities would be upset by such a nerf.

[Crissa]

Ugh, that would be horrible, snowe. It's so difficult to find the right mods already! To have to completely denude to change armor... Ugh.

How about sliding scale armor? That might work, but... We'd want to make sure that getting turned into a deer or a cow isn't a death sentence just because someone hasn't leveled their animal skill.

[Sheawanna]

The simple and best fix to alleviate said problem is to have higher level mobs drop whats needed for those who need to farm those items . ice magic needs 25 fire to even learn which means going back to lower areas for the components to learn said spells . Why ? because we are level 1 ice . so its a difficult thing to do . with so many skills , and having to go back to lower areas . even if said higher person with said higher gear going to lower they are in fact only level 1 although they might survive better in the lower level then those at starting level , they still only have spells at current level . its not like level 70 farming level 10 areas in level 70 gear with level 70 skills .

[Mikhaila]

I see your point however... I moved on to the next group mobs right now. Goblin dungeon. Still pretty crowded. When does that stop?
On the upside there's plenty overworld mobs to kill, but loot is really bad. Mostly rings, amulets and junk for crafting/gifts.

A good point about some overworld areas. If dungeons are the best place to get a broad range of loot, you'll want to go there, and not the large outside areas that drop mostly rings and necklaces. Some outdoor areas have compensations, in the form of foraging and no restrictions on movement. But for example, you need level 30 everything, you are better off in the goblin dungeon even crowded, than killing mobs outside for necklaces and rings.

[kazeandi]

Kur/Gaz are the opposite of that idea - hunting outside requires preparation, whereas the dungeons and caves there provide warmth.

[Raviollius]

How about sliding scale armor? That might work, but... We'd want to make sure that getting turned into a deer or a cow isn't a death sentence just because someone hasn't leveled their animal skill.

Why? Assuming you mean having the mods of the higher-level skill capped to X ranks higher than the lower level one, this sounds like an amazing idea. Either the person-turned-into-animal go after an undeer/pig/etc elixir, or they level the animal form.

[Leycian]

As far as I understand it, I believe the dev blog said everything is already setup on sub servers, which are all communicating with eachother, such as mobs are on their own sub server. So making instances as a sub server, like they already are, but simply adding a second and a little icon to choose between 2 sub servers / open instances for a dungeon should take at most a few days to code.

This is in reference to the people saying it'd take months. So I don't think this would take much effort at all if they do decide to do it.

[Silvonis]

We've talked about instances several times already, but outside of instanced housing and guild halls it's not going to happen. There are several reasons, but for one it's not in the game design and two it's not feasible based on the engine.

We see people say things like 'it would only take a day' or 'it should only take a few weeks' and it's extremely frustrating because 99% of the time it's just not true. It's particularly untrue in this case as instances (separate channels or otherwise) would be a large undertaking and would take far more time than just a couple days or weeks.

We appreciate the discussion, but after reading through the comments I thought that it was important to reemphasize our position.

[preechr]

Thank you!

[Crissa]

Why? Assuming you mean having the mods of the higher-level skill capped to X ranks higher than the lower level one, this sounds like an amazing idea. Either the person-turned-into-animal go after an undeer/pig/etc elixir, or they level the animal form.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

Maybe there could be some sliding scale so that say, armor and health didn't dial back quite as fast as the skill level of bonuses, so that players in poof situations can adapt.

PPS: Having done game design, it's surprising what will be an engine-breaking bug. I did a quick-build of a VR game with a friend and we had a puzzle which involved changing the player's size so they could fit through a door. Making the player shorter was hard-linked to several other variables, so it just exploded into horrible little bugs that we as not the engine coder, couldn't even attempt to work around. So much for quick build!

[p1881]

The fundamental question to be answerd: "Why are there no zones/dungeons designed for high level players to get the same materials/opportunity to level skills without having to go to low level dungeons"?

Is it a certain design philosophy of enabling every player to go where he pleases, thus pursuing "the path of least resistance" when farming materials/skills?

[Niph]

The game is in beta, and still under development. There will be more content, new items and new recipes. New zones to farm them. It's not like the current situation is designed on purpose, it's temporary.

[Raviollius]

The fundamental question to be answerd: "Why are there no zones/dungeons designed for high level players to get the same materials/opportunity to level skills without having to go to low level dungeons"?
The thing is, a higher-level player can kill 4-10 lower level mobs in the same timeframe he kills one mob of his level.

So to create the scenario you want from drops alone Citan would have to do one of these:

- Throw big amounts of loot/exp on your face at higher levels, so killing one enemy is as profitable(or more!) materials-wise as killing many lower-leveled ones. Issue: monsters become piñatas as we scale to level 125.
- Make the drop rate of materials/exp lower on lower-level mobs to make them less attractive. Issue: might still be more efficient to just farm them en masse, and it hurts newbies that can't do so.
- Multiply the number of ranked materials, so you have to constantly change farm spots because the loot quickly becomes useless. Issue: hurts the economy, creates material bloat.

Pick your poison.
______

By the way, I want to say I don't see this happening near as much - except during weekends. I believe it's more of a population problem.

[p1881]

The thing is, a higher-level player can kill 4-10 lower level mobs in the same timeframe he kills one mob of his level.

So to create the scenario you want from drops alone Citan would have to do one of these:

- Throw big amounts of loot/exp on your face at higher levels, so killing one enemy is as profitable(or more!) materials-wise as killing many lower-leveled ones. Issue: monsters become piñatas as we scale to level 125.
- Make the drop rate of materials/exp lower on lower-level mobs to make them less attractive. Issue: might still be more efficient to just farm them en masse, and it hurts newbies that can't do so.
- Multiply the number of ranked materials, so you have to constantly change farm spots because the loot quickly becomes useless. Issue: hurts the economy, creates material bloat.

Pick your poison.
______

By the way, I want to say I don't see this happening near as much - except during weekends. I believe it's more of a population problem.

The "path of least resistance" is the default stance most people converge to, especially if you're familiar with other MMOs/MMORPGs: you go to that one place with a decent droprate of a certain item you want, which ideally is inhabitet by masses of enemies that die to a single press of a button - and you stay in that place until you either 1. hate your life due to a prolonged grind or 2. you've looted the item you wanted to farm.

There's a reason similar games tie different tiers of materials to different level ranges and typs of enemies across different areas:
1. Killing starter area enemies that drop the whole range of different crafting tier materials is just plain illogical
2. The playerbase gets stretched out over different areas, thus not cluttering in a single area and freeing up the starter areas
3. An actual choice where to farm: if I want item X and Y I farm at spot A, you only need item X and for that spot B is better

That would be the poison I'd pick: spread the different tiers of crafting materials across different enemies, which inhabit more than one area.

LotRO or WoW do something like that: shared loot tables of certain typs of enemies in a fixed level/expansion range that drop a certan item, and those enemies are available at different areas across the word.

[Leodane]

I think we might also be seeing the side effects of a mixture of limited inventory space and unlimited crafting potential. Whenever a character wants to start a new crafting skill and is unable to generate the huge sums of money to just buy their way through it, they must essentially start the sequence of zones over again, putting L70 players to work gathering shoddy skins/strawberries/oak/basic slabs/uncommon L30 items. Because there is no limit on the number of crafting skills a person can have but there IS a limit on what someone can carry/store, it necessitates higher level players going to lower level areas every time they start a crafting skill.

I've been experiencing this a lot lately. I'm at a point where it's too expensive for me to just brute-force-purchase my way through a new skill, so I take my L65 Bard/Ment self back to the starting areas when I started ice conjuration, transmutation (goblin dungeon,) alchemy, fishing, and gardening. That's 5 different times my high level character was in the newbie zone, doing newbie things.

AND I LOVE IT. I like running around near other players, sharing space. It feels like the world is more alive. BUT I can see how it's a big problem, and it's going to be an even bigger problem when the game takes off. Right now, most times when I log in, I see 200-350 active players online. Imagine 1000?

Of course, as more players start, it might become easier just to pay for crafting goods, rather than compete for the limited oak nodes/strawberries/etc. There will be less competition for harvest nodes in high level areas (initially, anyway,) so it'll become a comparatively better investment to spend time there, get that stuff, make money vendoring it or merchanting it, then buy lower level stuff from 10 newbs who were all competing over the same nodes.

[Mikhaila]

I was playing last night and ended up running around the Goblin dungeon in Elt for a couple of hours. Why? Paintings and flesh. I need to appraise paintings so I can identify poetry books. Wish i had started long ago when i was leveling my character the first time. And I need cold resist potions for foraging in Gaz and Ice Fishing.

[VanHelsing]

I wish they kept the old loot system in place, when all you had to do was tag a mob to get your own individual set of loot. This problem wouldn't be occurring if that was still a thing, as it wouldn't encourage high level players to kill something before others get a chance to claim your loot. I understand that back then the developers didn't like that the high level players would take a group of 40 to high lvl zones and have them get geared, but may i suggest adding a rarity lock that makes it so that your individual loot is not guaranteed to be blue or higher unless you are the appropriate level for the area? this would encourage high level players to organize more dungeon clears for lowbies and would eliminate the need to kill steal.

*just what id prefer*

[ArkadyRandom]

I wish they kept the old loot system in place, when all you had to do was tag a mob to get your own individual set of loot. This problem wouldn't be occurring if that was still a thing, as it wouldn't encourage high level players to kill something before others get a chance to claim your loot. I understand that back then the developers didn't like that the high level players would take a group of 40 to high lvl zones and have them get geared, but may i suggest adding a rarity lock that makes it so that your individual loot is not guaranteed to be blue or higher unless you are the appropriate level for the area? this would encourage high level players to organize more dungeon clears for lowbies and would eliminate the need to kill steal.

*just what id prefer*

Has personal loot been removed? I wasn't aware of that. I thought all players got loot drops for contributing.

I think the problem here is that high level players mow through mobs before lowbies can even tag them. I went to meet a friend on Anagogue. He was new and I followed around healing and buffing him. I also needed dino scales and bones to add rep for that one NPC. The thing is at level 30ish I can casually one-shot stuff. So even though I'm there for legit reasons my presence upsets the balance of play in the zone and that's just in the 30s.

There's a reason why all the systems people here hate were put into place, because this kind of setup has issues too. There's no easy answers either.

[Sheawanna]

Agree Celler , I do bury for respawn and the main issue for others is the respawn and wanting the items from same mob . only way I foresee issue being resolved is for higher npc's dropping those items . most are aware as my myself am . if I'm in lower dungeon I always offer my help on bosses . I think best way to fix issue at hand is have those items drop at higher levels .