Guild Management

[Quanzhigao]

Currently setting up guild stuff is a bit of a mess of going through menus, not knowing where everything is located etc. Editing all the guild ranks is a bit of a hassle and you can't cleanly see what ranks have what permissions without again going through menu hell.

Here are examples from another game I like, it uses checkboxes so you can quickly edit everything for every rank, much faster/easier and everyone in the guild can clearly see it all. Adding a tab for guild quests which shows the active quest and when you completed each one would also be great.
https://imgur.com/a/ysVAvwZ
https://imgur.com/a/H3VG7eU


One of these games also had guild advertisements which I thought was pretty neat, so to translate to project gorgon say you go to the guild notice board and clicked on it you'd see a list of guilds that have posted an advertisement and the name of guild leader/officers so you know who to message, how many people are in the guild and a briedf description they wrote. As a newbie on that game I found that system a lot better for finding a guild over spamming "any guild??? am newb" on global chat

[Quanzhigao]

Some more feedback on guilds:

# of member cap is locked behind having to do a LOT of guild quests. All of these quests are quite mundane(I can solo basically all of them) and you are limited to 3 a week, which basically means guild expansion is locked behind real world time more than anything. I feel like guild quests themselves should have a week cooldown and guilds that are able to complete more than 3 in a week should just be able to do so. Either that or add more difficult quests that give a lot more guild exp(and maybe credits, if credits are to be limited cap THOSE at 3 quests/week, but allow guilds to complete more for exp) - or alternatively just increase the member cap for new guilds, 150 seems low

If you've ever been invited to a guild and joined only to find it is DED you will know bigger guilds is a good thing. Casual players benefit greatly from being in an active guild but usually do not meet the requirements of joining an active guild.

[Niph]

150 seems low

Just to put things in perspective: that's a 1/10th of the expected entire server active population. Also, there must be an incentive for people to do these quests. And you can probably also expect more guild quests in the future (just my opinion).

[Quanzhigao]

Just to put things in perspective: that's a 1/10th of the expected entire server active population.

I'm not sure if this is meant to mean "150 isnt low" - Currently my guild with 150 members makes up 1/31 of the online count and this is probably the time we make up the highest %.

I joined on steam release and made my guild awhile after and ran into the cap pretty fast with 0 out of game guild recruitment. It would be an even bigger issue if a guild of players joined project gorgon together.


And you can probably also expect more guild quests in the future

I'm patient and am hopeful for some extra stuff along with the guild housing that is in the works, figured I'd get my feedback in then. Might as well give the feedback about Menu Hell before they go and add a bunch more options for you to sift through right?

[Mikhaila]

No out of game recruitment, but lots of ingame recruitment, during the time with a huge influx of new players all shouting "can i join a guild?" and all someone has to do is say "can i join". Most guilds are like that. Is there a reason a guild needs larger numbers of random people?

[Quanzhigao]

Is there a reason a guild needs larger numbers of random people?

Only me and 1 other person in my guild recruit, I have only on a few occasions publicly recruited in world chat with almost everyone being people who have asked to join after I've partied with them, at which point I would consider them friends and not random people. I have had people that are in the army and may leave for weeks, or people that simply don't play much ask to join - If you tell them no then those players are missing out on a great social aspect(guilds > friends list) and actual benefits like access to guild storage. If you let them in then you hit the cap very fast and now log in to 3 people online. I don't want such people to miss out on the greatness that is being in the same guild as me.

Currently the eventual guild cap is 350, I am sure that anyone that suggests lowering that number would be absolutely trashed on and called a dip. It currently takes months to raise the guild cap, and I am unsure how much harder leveling the guild gets but it currently takes 2 weeks to go from level 0 to level 2, I have heard it will take like 6-7 weeks(of mundane get me 500 apples and 600 pick me up juices) to go from level 12 to 13 where you get the final member cap increase.

If there was some form of guild versus guild or if the guild quests rewarded Actually Good Item then I could understand a lower cap but as is it seems to arbitrarily be 150.

[Mikhaila]

I can't see how anyone is missing out on anything if you don't invite them or have space. There are after all many other guilds than just yours :) They'll find another guild.

Raising the guild cap won't solve your problem. If you have 150 in guild and only 3 people online, then doubling it to 300 just means you'll have 6 online. A better fix would be to focus on recruiting people that play more, play in the same time zone, and have been online more consistantly. Drop people out that aren't playing.

[Justarius]

I don't see an issue with raising the guild cap at all, even with dropping inactive players it would be nice to be able to still recruit. As it stands there's just a waiting period based on finishing guild quests - which already "reward" you with guild credits, so I'm not sure they need be be tied to the additional requirement of guild size. Ideally a healthy MMO has huge guilds and smaller guilds, everyone is looking for their own play experience.

I have to agree with Quan here, I'd like to see the guild size increased perhaps so recruitment remains fun and dynamic and doesn't keep running into the wall of, "Oh well I guess we need to do more guild quests in order to be able to invite any more members." That's not fun, especially if you're inviting friends to play the game with you and can't absorb them into your preferred guild due to member limits.

[Mikhaila]

Increasing guild size doesn't make it "fun and dynamic" it just means there are no consequences to grabbing every single player who says "new, need guild".

And turn it around: Guild quests are a great way for everyone in a guild to feel they contribute and take part, and increase the guild's size. Like many other things in PG, guild size is locked behind something and you unlock it by getting out and playing the game.

[Quanzhigao]

Mikhaila, you are free to make another thread suggesting to lower the guild cap size from 350 to 150.

If you would like to present an argument for why we should wait 6 months before being able to invite many more people to the guild that would be nice as well, I also offered a different suggestion of allowing guilds to plow through as many quests as they are capable of - It quite literally takes ONE or maybe 2 members to collect the materials required. I do not think my guild giving me 200 strange dirt towards a guild quest is a great way for them to contribute and take part.

It is not fun. It is timely for the sake of being timely. You cannot put in more effort to work towards it faster, a guild of 150 people that play 12 hours a day will level as the same speed that a guild which consists of literally just my alt.

I do not want to only recruit the people that play 10 hours a day just so I can have a guild that has enough online to form parties and be active. I feel bad for those people that cannot join a great guild because if they do the guild will become less great.

[Mikhaila]

Your arguments are just smoke and mirrors.

I never said I wanted the guild cap lowered. I said I don't see why it should be arbitrarily raised because you recruited 150 people.

And if you just choose to do the easiest quest? That's on you. Maybe those hundred people would enjoy doing the other quests?

You want more people in your guild. You want the bar lowered. Don't feel bad for those people, they'll find other guilds. Not a bad thing to have lots of guilds.

[Ald]

Hi everyone,

I agree with Quan about guild logistics... It seems not complete.
They are not so many option even for a none rank like me, for exemple: Location of player.
He suggest many thing which will be really usefull.
About number, I really don't want to discuss that point because I think we all have different point of view.
Some like small guild and some like bigger. The thing is when guild need to grow up, I think we should allow them to do it.

I have already suggest (in game) a guild panel order which player can ask for materials inside the guild without "council".
If player don't like to help other member for free they are still able to do basic trade.
I think it could help every member especially new one.

Apologize me for my low lvl english, and I hope you could understand me.

Thank you for reading.

Ald

[Silvonis]

You can look at this a couple different ways. Guilds could simply have a hard cap of 150 and that's that, or they could have a cap of 150 that can be raised by the combined initative of the Guild.

If you're looking for increased capacity, it's possible in our current system.

We don't have any plans to remove caps or significantly increase them without some initative from the members of the Guild itself.

[Quanzhigao]

You can look at this a couple different ways. Guilds could simply have a hard cap of 150 and that's that, or they could have a cap of 150 that can be raised by the combined initative of the Guild.

If you're looking for increased capacity, it's possible in our current system.


I wasn't pushing for simply increasing the cap, the eventual 300-350 is a reasonable amount - just that having it locked behind months of real world time with no way to bypass that sucks. "I feel like guild quests themselves should have a week cooldown and guilds that are able to complete more than 3 in a week should just be able to do so. Either that or add more difficult quests that give a lot more guild exp" was the suggestion. I suggested, alternatively, increasing the cap for new guilds in case it was a suggestion you would be willing to go with but did not want to increase or have to alter the guild credits system.

Currently there is no initiative from the guild. The quests are super mundane and are either automatically completed via normal play(the kill quests) or collect 500 Item which I have repeatedly said takes 1 or 2 people to do, no 'guild initiative' involved.

I never said the current system is in any way bad, just that it could be more good. Currently the only reason for the starting 150 guild cap combined with the 3 quests weekly is "it is that way because that's the way it is" - Every other MMO I have played either has a restrictive guild cap because of guild versus guild, which gorgon doesn't have, has a flat starting guild cap or guild levels go off something such as an optional tax on members/some other form of gaining exp that is not bound by any reset timers.



We don't have any plans to remove caps or significantly increase them without some initative from the members of the Guild itself.


The issue isn't my guild is not taking initiative, we are absolutely going to get there eventually. That isn't the complain, the initiative we can take amounts to have like 5 people play the game and they can wait 6 months because that's the way it is.

[Tagamogi]

I'm not really fond of guild membership caps. If a guild is close to the cap, it means that alts can't get an invite or that someone will need to go through the guild roster and kick out perfectly nice guild members who just haven't played for a while and who may come back one day and find themselves guildless.

I'm curious what the reason for the cap is? If it's just to provide incentive for doing guild quests, it seems there should be other options that would work equally well.

On a slightly unrelated note, I really liked the checkbox guild privileges suggested in the first post of this thread. The current privilege settings can feel a bit confusing at times.

[Justarius]

I'm not really fond of guild membership caps. If a guild is close to the cap, it means that alts can't get an invite or that someone will need to go through the guild roster and kick out perfectly nice guild members who just haven't played for a while and who may come back one day and find themselves guildless.

I'm curious what the reason for the cap is? If it's just to provide incentive for doing guild quests, it seems there should be other options that would work equally well.

On a slightly unrelated note, I really liked the checkbox guild privileges suggested in the first post of this thread. The current privilege settings can feel a bit confusing at times.

This, entirely. Does an MMO with a player base as small as this MMO currently is at really *need* a guild cap? Is the guild cap in any way enhancing anyone's enjoyment of the game? It seems the best argument against raising the cap is, "Why would we need to?"

And several answers to that question have been provided in this thread. I know I'm holding off on inviting a few friends to play this game with me at the moment simply because I'd like to have them join my guild and at the moment that isn't possible.

I guess my question is, what would be the harm in raising the cap or as Quan has mentioned; remove the time-limit from the guild quests and just let us do them as quickly as we wish?

[Rick Sanchez]

I'd love to see some overlap in the Industry with Guilds if that is possible in the future. Maybe not in the Guild quest style but maybe for enabling a Guild store that would allow for players to have a set guild discount and allow all guild members to put into and take out of dependent on settings in role level maybe.

[INXS]

So basically start playing since steam and wanting instant gratification, who cares about the guilds that invested time, resources to get where they are today. EVENTUALLY you'll get there too, just keep on rolling on, cheers.

[Justarius]

Making people "suffer" through a process that can be improved upon isn't exactly a sound business model. The entire point of an alpha play-base is to find problems or areas that can use a little work.

This is a minor, minor thing Quan was asking for - the ability to do guild quests faster without a waiting period - and it was taken as an attack. That's ridiculous. It's just a simple suggestion, "Hey - guild caps might be part of your vision for the game but what about letting us complete those quests a little faster without a time limit?"

The fact that a very minor suggestion like this was met with such ferocity from the "veteran" players who apparently don't value us as much because we only "started playing since Steam" seems like a rather negative attitude to take towards a game that supposedly wants feedback, suggestions, and new members/purchases. If every suggestion offered is met with, "This is the way it is, deal with it, we suffered and so should you..." - well, it seems like a waste of resources and a waste for people to offer up suggestions at all. I would think in this early beta phase we'd want a lot of opinions and feedback from the people who did take a chance on the game.

Passive aggressive posts about how we want instant gratification and we'll "get there eventually" don't seem helpful. If we're just supposed to play the game and not offer suggestions or feedback that is fine, but I don't think that is the current goal.

So, yes. Cheers.

[Quanzhigao]

We don't have any plans to remove caps or significantly increase them without some initative from the members of the Guild itself.

To reply to this again the suggestion is not to increase the guild cap. It was to allow more initiative to be taken from the members of the guild itself.

[INXS]

Hypothetical speaking let's just say you got a nice system going are making very good money now you throwing all this money to achieve end game ASAP but you hit a road block with guild system. Can't p2w! Not being aggressive just stating facts.

[Daimes]

Until I personally experience trying to make a new guild, I'm afraid I can't comment on the lack of upward mobility for new guilds being stifled.

However, I can agree that the ranks/editing of ranks needs work (once again, haven't done it myself but I'm acquainted with people who have edited ranks and most agree it's frustrating due to unforeseen errors such as "off" meaning "on", etc.) and that perhaps a guild recruitment board can be placed -- even temporarily -- until an opportunity to flesh out guilds a bit more comes around. Perhaps as a temporary solution, the guild roster board can double as an advertisement board, or a chat can be added for "looking for group/looking for guild"?

All of this might take a while though, because making sure the game actually runs is probably more paramount than QoL changes. Either way, I like the suggestions given for the most part (for what I can actually comment on).

[BetaNotus]

and that perhaps a guild recruitment board can be placed -- even temporarily -- until an opportunity to flesh out guilds a bit more comes around. Perhaps as a temporary solution, the guild roster board can double as an advertisement board, or a chat can be added for "looking for group/looking for guild"?

I guess I'll jump off of this comment. I think a Guild recruitment board would be a nice idea. I'm wondering if it could be as simple (probably not simple) as a list brought up by a command that displays messages set by each guild. They shouldn't be too long, but enough to get the point across. Something similar to the messages players can set for /who. If a button on the Guild Sign could bring this window up, it might work really well.

[Quanzhigao]

I guess I'll jump off of this comment. I think a Guild recruitment board would be a nice idea. I'm wondering if it could be as simple (probably not simple) as a list brought up by a command that displays messages set by each guild. They shouldn't be too long, but enough to get the point across. Something similar to the messages players can set for /who. If a button on the Guild Sign could bring this window up, it might work really well.

This is how I found my first guild in one of the games I mentioned as having good guild management options.

All it really needs is to show guilds that opt in, a short message and preferably a list of members online with invite powers so you know who to contact. The /who is somewhat good at this but is less obvious/only shows nearby, so a newbie in Serbule isn't going to see that I am guild recruiting if I am in Rahu. I'd like to see it show up if you type /guild while not in a guild if at all possible but just on the guild notice board is fine.