Suggestion: “you can’t pick up this xxx as you have not the proper level in ..."

[MorKazim]

Suggestion.

Instead of “you can’t pick up this xxx as you have not the proper level in yyy” add a tiny chance of picking up the resource and a huge chance of ruin it.
With this way you remove the “why the “f#$@#$” can’t I just pick up this berry. It is right in front of me…” and replace it with “you ruined the berry, banana, ore, gem,…” it is much better.
Also if you have more skill level than required more items could be harvested.

Food for thought.

Thank you

[ShieldBreaker]

Oh, I like this idea. If they bring their sense of humor to bear on making the reasons make sense and funny, that would be awesome. Sometimes it is easy to RP the reason it didn't work, but sometimes it makes you frustrated that it doesn't make sense to your way of thinking. Or maybe it just how badly you want the item :)

For some reason I'm imaging a new player trying to pick up some maple wood, and they get a your not good enough message: you ended up hacking it to pieces, but hey you now got some nice maple flavored toothpicks. And some maple flavored toothpicks which are low value vendor trash get added to inventory.

[MorKazim]

Oh, I like this idea. If they bring their sense of humor to bear on making the reasons make sense and funny, that would be awesome. Sometimes it is easy to RP the reason it didn't work, but sometimes it makes you frustrated that it doesn't make sense to your way of thinking. Or maybe it just how badly you want the item :)

For some reason I'm imaging a new player trying to pick up some maple wood, and they get a your not good enough message: you ended up hacking it to pieces, but hey you now got some nice maple flavored toothpicks. And some maple flavored toothpicks which are low value vendor trash get added to inventory.


"maple flavored toothpicks" I want this :)

[Crissa]

"maple flavored toothpicks" I want this :)
I know! Or injuring yourself.

Gosh man iRL the number of times I hurt myself when I was trying to harvest something new to me. And really, people do get killed every year trying to harvest fallen logs. It's not funny iRL but it would work in PG and be able to be funny. 'Killed by a rolling log' 'Killed by a catapulting stump' 'killed by a falling apple' would be hilarious extra death xp.

[Ryker]

Love this idea! Very creative. Hopefully the devs consider this.

[Celler]

I like the sense of achievement of getting to the next gate as to put it.
I also feel that resources worth having would be scarce as everyone would at least try to get them.
As long as spawns could be replaced like for like I see little issue with change, as Is I just get feeling the best stuff on maps would be rare as everyone would try to grab it whether able or not.

[Aionlasting]

This is actually a simple but elegant solution to the problem and will make players less restricted by atleast allowing them the CHANCE to pick something up even if it is ruined in the process due to their lack of skill or inappropriate skill level. Great idea! +1

[Citan]

I do feel this is kinder to new players in newbie areas, and we already use this idea in some places where it won't hamper other people (for instance, you can autopsy anything you kill... you'll just screw it up if you aren't good enough). And I might use it for low-level resources, but it doesn't really scale to high level items.

Just as an example: suppose you completely ignore mining all through the game, and now you're in Rahu and you see a bunch of level 60 mining nodes. You've got lots of fighting skill, so you go killing monsters and using those mining nodes. But you get nothing from those nodes -- you just waste them, since you don't have any skill. You might get 1 or 2 points of Mining XP from it, but not enough XP to level you quickly. So in the mean time you are basically just unintentionally griefing people who DO have the necessary skill. And unless you want to pointlessly use a million level 60 nodes, you'll still have to go back to an earlier zone and raise the skill the right way. So it's just... pointless. And frustrating in its own way.

But for the low-level tiers of resources, those concerns aren't very important, so we might use the technique there in the future.

[Crissa]

Citan That makes it seem more like a skill-gap sort of thing instead. Which I'd like. It's super frustrating to harvest only a third of what's in a zone (like eltibule's gathering spread).

[Mikhaila]

Citan That makes it seem more like a skill-gap sort of thing instead. Which I'd like. It's super frustrating to harvest only a third of what's in a zone (like eltibule's gathering spread).

To play devil's advocate: I spent a lot of effort running around foraging in low level zones with apple/hay/strawberries until I could get to maple/cedar and higher level things. The incentive was I saw those higher level items going unused and I knew when i got my skill high enough I'd be able to harvest them. In this scenarior Eltibule would be devoid of cedar/maple/mushrooms as people with no skill clear them out and gain nothing.

So while some brand new players feel frustrated because they can't harvest something they haven't got skill for - higher level characters would be insanely frustrated to work up a skill and yet not be able to use it because of ruined resources.

In fact, it might be very hard to ever get the skill needed, since you now you aren't just competing with players of equal skill, but also with anyone who just wanders by.

Just a counter opinion.

[Crissa]

Mikhaila That's the thing, tho, if you're harvesting in an area, it's already ruined if the spawns recycle into stuff you don't want. This isn't like WoW where each herb has its own recycle pattern. Which is really, really frustrating. If I need Perch, I have to pick all the Clown Fish in the zone. And if I wanted Clown Fish, I wouldn't run around a zone that's more likely to kill me and respawn nodes into stuff I can't clear.

Yeah, it's frustrating when a skin gets ruined, but I also literally don't get enough xp if I don't try.

There's also the problem of the UI not telling you anything about your chances with any particular resource (for those that have chances now) and no way in party to assign resources to different party members.

[Mikhaila]

That would be a different problem to fix then, with spawn cycles. But at least you are getting exp and a resource even if it's not what you need. Having a zone cleared by people wasting resources would be very frustrating to people who could harvest them.

There are lots of different ways people get frustrated. Some could be fixed, many can be mitigated by players adapting to the game rather than asking the game to be adapted to them. I just wanted to point out that while a new player may feel frustrated i can't harvest something, just letting them try and 99% of the time waste the item will cause someone else to be frustrated.

I think the system, as is, is working. There's a path to not be frustrated, which is increasing your skill. As an example, i hit a new cave in Ghazluk last night, and couldn't harvest mushrooms. I'm at 50. Never bothered to seek out a trainer. Suddenly i can't do something, and i'm selling stuff and looking for the trainer so i can pay to increase my skill.

[Crissa]

The zone isn't 'wasted' - as people pick things, the spawns pop up elsewhere in the zone.

The concept of worrying about it being wasted is just not a good one. Is it 'wasted' if someone else got the whole thing and ran off anyhow? Does it matter?

[Mikhaila]

Yes, if resources spawn and are destroyed by someone with no skill in foraging trying to pick them up, i consider it wasted. And it would matter if that mean't people who had worked to get the skill to harvest those items didn't have them available.

We all have opinions. You don't think my worries are good. I don't think people who haven't gained the necessary skill should worry about not being able to forage something. YMMV.

[Crissa]

Mikhaila Does it feel wasted that they spawn and are wasted with no player interaction? That most players grabbing resources just sell them to the nearest vendor?

Sometimes it does no good to worry about some things. Whether or not a player got the resource node seems like one of them: They got it, we didn't, it doesn't really matter what they do with it, it's gone.

Anyhow, I just entered in because I thought it would be funny to have ramped difficulty with some resources. Not knowing the right way to gather wood literally is the most dangerous job in the US today! (It varies, but it's always in the top ten.) Maybe it's more interesting to me because that was literally an elective in my high school. I dunno.

[Madmatx]

It would be fine if they got that message instead of the "you need more kill points" one as long as it still sat there like it does now.

[Mikhaila]

Mikhaila Does it feel wasted that they spawn and are wasted with no player interaction? That most players grabbing resources just sell them to the nearest vendor?

Sometimes it does no good to worry about some things. Whether or not a player got the resource node seems like one of them: They got it, we didn't, it doesn't really matter what they do with it, it's gone.

Anyhow, I just entered in because I thought it would be funny to have ramped difficulty with some resources. Not knowing the right way to gather wood literally is the most dangerous job in the US today! (It varies, but it's always in the top ten.) Maybe it's more interesting to me because that was literally an elective in my high school. I dunno.

I approve of that high school! My family on my father's side back 6 generations were lumber jacks. My grandfather taught me to fall trees and we heard all his stories about widow makers, kickbacks, and twisters. He quit hauling logs at 78 ans sold his truck. It was a '58 Peterbuilt log truck, the company bought it from him and put it in their museum.

[Crissa]

Mikhaila That's cool ^-^ I love when history is cherished. Tho maybe because my family doesn't have one o-o