Event Ideas to promote interest in grouping

[Sacapuntas]

This thread is to posit some ideas about events that will promote grouping primarily in level 60 content for the purpose of helping level transmutation. The idea is that some players who have done the content so much that it is now stale or find the idea of doing the content not worth their time might be encouraged to do it with some incentivizing.

Event Idea #1 (https://forum.projectgorgon.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1)
Increased Rare Chance drop rate and Transmutation EXP bonus for all level 60 Content.

Event Idea #2 (https://forum.projectgorgon.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=2)
Increased Nice Phlogiston yield rate and Transmutation EXP Bonus from Level 60 Items

Event Idea #3 (https://forum.projectgorgon.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=3)
Temporary Special Event Merchant that will trade level 60 items for level 70 items and other assorted trade skill related items.

If anyone has some ideas that are constructive to this topic feel free to share them.

[Sheawanna]

All sound great great for our weekend special or bonus events :) . I do agree for some reason in last year Labs which btw is lvl 60 .. seldom does anyone do it . not sure why , perhaps everyone is at level 70-80 and has no desire to do labs . perhaps guilds are to focused on other things . I do agree its a issue . since the trans updates it is more difficult .
I also think seeing rahu is lvl 60 more things should drop . or perhaps having a cave (in rahu with lvl 60 ) for those who are not able or do not have enough people to even to do labs . Labs at the moment is only level 60 area for raids ( actually groups seeing as it 6 peeps per group ). .
I personally felt at Ri-shen regardless of what tree you decorated , your gift should be at level you are . Seems more useful for the time and effort otherwise why bother decorating any tree but one at your level ? I digress lol ..
all of your suggestions are great :)

[Oxlazr]

It's a problem in many games, really, not just Project Gorgon - a lot of the old dungeons get "left behind" once you've leveled past them. They should still be relevant at steam launch and whenever there's a resurgence of players, but at the moment, I wouldn't expect many mid-range dungeons to see a lot of visits.

Dark Chapel, the further parts of Wolf Cave, Yeti Cave to some extent, Death Trap Dungeon, Labs, eventually Kur Keep, as well as the back of the Goblin Dungeon are all places I expect to see very little traffic. (I suppose Winter Nexus as well, given the crystals there are largely irrelevant now).

However, in PG there's a bit of sting when you need something from a particular dungeon that isn't loot and you can't find groups for it. At the moment, there's one "effective" end-game dungeon, and everything else might as well not exist (hence the personal appeal for me to play alts, though that's another discussion).

I'd personally like to experiment with gear not leveling beyond 50 - even if our characters do, and having sets at various locations that may be useful in different situations. That way, all content beyond level 50 is both challenging and relevant. This is probably too drastic, though.

Either way, I personally don't like farming loot for phlog (I've given up on enchanting all together for now), I'd rather go to a dungeon with the possibility of finding an upgrade (or some sort of silly or otherwise very rare item).

[Daimes]

This might be a good idea later down the road, but at the moment, I would imagine the team is more interested in adding new content than fine-tuning stuff for player enjoyment and player retention.

I would think that even with a "buff" such as this to encourage returning to lesser-leveled dungeons, it wouldn't really draw many people back since it would still be more beneficial to go through the highest-leveled dungeons to get better loot and XP per monster kill. I would much rather prefer to see dungeon-specific rewards to draw people back every so often, such as cosmetics a la pets, etc. or dungeon-limited loot/enchantments to put on your gear that you can't get elsewhere. Bonus phlog retrieval rates sounds better as a weekend event, to be honest.

As for the grouping issue, I would personally chalk it up to grouping itself. Hunting groups are limited to 6 people and can't share loot with other groups, thereby creating a competitive scene of group v. group, or one group just outrunning a dungeon and taking all kills, leaving no loot for the other group. Labs used to be run with 30+ players to get everyone loot, but the change to grouping killed that, and a lot of dungeons will stay mildly empty until either grouping is changed again or dungeons are instanced on a per party basis.

[HardRock]

Would it be possible for a dungeon to have its own measure of str? The spawned mobs could become more difficult as more players entered an instance. I think that is how it was done in Diablo II. Loot drops also scaled with monster difficulty based on amount of players in an instance. I think this mechanic, if implemented, would negate dungeons being cleared when over camped by too many players. Since the loot drops would scale to be better with more people in the dungeon it would encourage multiple groups to camp dungeons. Respawn timers could also be decreased as more players entered. It would also prevent low level players from using "zerging" strats to overcome dungeons.

[Roekai]

I don't think we need events, but rather a slight re-tooling of the dungeons that are singular in purpose.

What I mean by singular in purpose is simply to level up or gain items for a certain level range; for example, there is no reason to go into the yeti caves unless you need to get level 40-50 gear/exp (besides maybe the Red Orb, but he's right @ the start of the dungeon).

Whereas, at level 75/75/70 I find myself going to the Serbule Crypts all the time, for things like Fire Dust, low level ability scrolls, and to buy Sigil Scripting Ink, among other things.

There needs to be a vendor that barters something significant, like heartshrooms for diamonds, on the 3rd level of the Yeti caves, so there is a reason to go, always. If you want to use Rez, you have to make the occasional trip down into the depths of Yeti Caves, rather than just to Sun Vale.

Same with Labs - there should be trainers and merchants and items that are only available deep into dungeons, so that people are forced to group if they want to accomplish all goals. Transmutation and Augmentation should be less tedious and more difficult. Move the guy from the front of the Wolf Cave to the Scion's captive and you have to kill the Scion to reach him, and then make leveling up augmenting much easier.

Idk my two cents, don't shit on me too hard folks.

I would go so far as to say there should be more of an emphasis on the trinity among skills. Each skill should fill one of the roles (healer, tank, dps) and then have a secondary ability like debuffing or crowd control.

[Crissa]

Roekai I think the way things are weighted that's reasonable. Someone who's of level in a dungeon can take one or two mobs, someone outleveled can take many, but not always all, especially if there's stuns or rage attacks. I still get clobbered in the mushroom caves if I get triple stunned. But add in a single at-level player, and things are a bit easier.

I've tagged along many a crafting folk who can 'mostly' or totally handle the dungeon, and learn it a bit better. For some, that can be the difference between skirting or engaging bosses, too.

[HardRock]

I don't think we need events, but rather a slight re-tooling of the dungeons that are singular in purpose.

What I mean by singular in purpose is simply to level up or gain items for a certain level range; for example, there is no reason to go into the yeti caves unless you need to get level 40-50 gear/exp (besides maybe the Red Orb, but he's right @ the start of the dungeon).

Whereas, at level 75/75/70 I find myself going to the Serbule Crypts all the time, for things like Fire Dust, low level ability scrolls, and to buy Sigil Scripting Ink, among other things.

There needs to be a vendor that barters something significant, like heartshrooms for diamonds, on the 3rd level of the Yeti caves, so there is a reason to go, always. If you want to use Rez, you have to make the occasional trip down into the depths of Yeti Caves, rather than just to Sun Vale.

Same with Labs - there should be trainers and merchants and items that are only available deep into dungeons, so that people are forced to group if they want to accomplish all goals. Transmutation and Augmentation should be less tedious and more difficult. Move the guy from the front of the Wolf Cave to the Scion's captive and you have to kill the Scion to reach him, and then make leveling up augmenting much easier.




I think there is merit here. Though I myself dont farm the lower level stuff, I use the work order boards for that mostly and subsidize my purchases with my own higher lvl farming.

[Tagamogi]

[...] there should be trainers and merchants and items that are only available deep into dungeons, so that people are forced to group if they want to accomplish all goals.

My general reaction to someone trying to force me to do anything is to do the opposite on principle. Personal quirks aside, I don't think you can force people to group in dungeons unless the dungeon is at max level, otherwise you just have higher level players facerolling the dungeon by themselves.So, I think having important NPCs deep inside a dungeon is actually a bad idea since that is going attract higher level players who could spoil the experience for someone trying to do the dungeon at level.

I've been thinking about my recent Winter Nexus experiences. My friend and I started duoing there a couple weeks ago around level 60. (Well, technically, we'd visited the Winter Nexus before that but I don't think getting repeatedly squashed by trolls at the entrance really counts, so we shall ignore that.) Our first time through, we explored the first floor and had a few ugly encounters with the Dementia Puck before finally scraping out a narrow victory to remove that nasty curse. The second time, we used our saved key to visit the second floor and dragged ourselves away a short time later with 20-30 broken bones each. Both times, there were one or two other people in the dungeon but we were working on different parts of the dungeon and didn't really run into each other much.

We spent quite a bit of time preparing for our third try by looking up possible rage reduction mods in Gorgon Explorer and trying to find a mix of mods and abilities that would allow us to deal with ogres better. Then we zoned into the Nexus and there were other people there. Lots of people. For both of us, our immediate reaction was to start wondering if we should go somewhere else. We eventually decided to give it a go, and followed a solid trail of corpses to the fairies. I think we encountered one living wolf on our way, and my friend somehow managed to pick up a couple trolls that were locked by some other group. On our way to the second floor, we encountered nothing else alive until we spawned the Puck. To our great relief, we didn't see anyone on the second floor and settled in to the serious business of ogre killing at last.

The lengthy point I'm trying to get at it is that I had great fun during all of the above, except when walking through that corridor of corpses left behind by the other group who appeared to quite outlevel the dungeon and who were probably only there for the fairies. Nothing wrong with the other group - they were nice and and left all their loot for us. But while I appreciate the free stomach and other goodies, I'd really rather kill my own wolves. I suspect the experience wasn't that fun for them either - if you are just killing everything in your way without even bothering to stop and loot, what's the point?

I'm also pretty unexcited to finally learn the recipe for maximized obsidian a good half year after getting my first set of combat skills to 70 and at least a year after first learning the recipes requiring maximized obsidian. I gave up on doing anything with my dozens of accumulated winterprizes a few months ago, and just crafted a bunch of hammer hats for Amutasa, eliminating the last purpose I can think of for the recipe. Well, alt gear I suppose...

I was aware the recipe was out there before but since I couldn't get to it on my own at level, it seemed easier to just ignore it and level up in other places and get higher level gear. Looking for a group to help me get a recipe and wait for me while I read the NPC dialog and take notes and then help me visit the fairies repeatedly while I get the required faction just seems like a huge imposition on other people to me. Now if there had been at-level groups regularly running the Winter Nexus, I might have tried one eventually... Which goes back to the initial problem of how to make a non-max level dungeon attractive. I don't really have a good answer to that since to me level and relative mob difficulty is an important aspect of the attraction. I like leveling stuff, so I actually do visit dungeons more than once as I level different combat skills. Beyond that, I don't know.

I think it actually is fun to have special event bosses spawn in certain underused dungeons for a limited time, similar to what was done for the Halloween event. That gives players opportunity to visit a dungeon again without turning it into a continuous grind.

An adjustment in spawn rates to the number of players around would also make things more exciting. (I know that's been mentioned before and I'm really looking forward to it.)

[Sacapuntas]

My general reaction to someone trying to force me to do anything is to do the opposite on principle. Personal quirks aside, I don't think you can force people to group in dungeons unless the dungeon is at max level, otherwise you just have higher level players facerolling the dungeon by themselves.So, I think having important NPCs deep inside a dungeon is actually a bad idea since that is going attract higher level players who could spoil the experience for someone trying to do the dungeon at level.


I'd just like to point out that, any one person is going to be hard-pressed to "Faceroll" most of the elite mobs in Labs. Elite mobs comprise probably 40% of the dungeon population. The beetles alone would make it very very hard to solo due to the reflect mechanics. Maybe less than 1% of the population could solo this dungeon if at all. Lab which is the level 60 dungeon is the second hardest dungeon in the game. And I actually think it might be easier to solo single mobs in Gaz Keep. When the mechanics of combat come into play.

[Niph]

Lab is easier than GK to solo for me. I'm just patient with beetles, don't nuke them hard.

[Roekai]

"I don't think you can force people to group in dungeons unless the dungeon is at max level, otherwise you just have higher level players facerolling the dungeon by themselves...who could spoil the experience for someone trying to do the dungeon at level"

You can't force people to group in a dungeon, but you can force them to go to the dungeon, and that's half the battle. When I go to a lower level dungeon, I switch to whatever skills are most level appropriate; I have three builds, one level 75/75, one level 50/50, the other level 25/25. It's just as likely a high level player switches to a level-appropriate build and joins a group as steamrolling the dungeon. And, for the record, If I wanted to steamroll a level 50 dungeon, like we have been discussing, I would prefer to do it in a group with level other 50 players rather than alone as a level 75; it would make it go much faster in a group, and the players may enjoy the power leveling.

"I've been thinking about my recent Winter Nexus experiences. My friend and I started duoing there...there were one or two other people in the dungeon but we were working on different parts of the dungeon and didn't really run into each other much."

You are lucky you have a friend to play with; if you didn't, maybe you would have approached the other people to group?

"... zoned into the Nexus and there were other people there. Lots of people. For both of us, our immediate reaction was to start wondering if we should go somewhere else. ..."

That to me, seems askew. Why not ask what they were doing, try to join up with them? I always like a full zone and playing with others. That seems weird to me to want to leave because the zone was populated.

"...while I appreciate the free stomach and other goodies, I'd really rather kill my own wolves. I suspect the experience wasn't that fun for them either - if you are just killing everything in your way without even bothering to stop and loot, what's the point?"

If you are worried about competition over mobs, well, you're going to hate the steam launch.

"...Now if there had been at-level groups regularly running the Winter Nexus, I might have tried one eventually... Which goes back to the initial problem of how to make a non-max level dungeon attractive. I don't really have a good answer... I don't know."

Right now, the problem is there isn't a big enough population for there to be regular at-level groups running any dungeons .

"An adjustment in spawn rates to the number of players around would also make things more exciting"

This, to me, is instancing and a reason I would quit playing, as much as that would suck.

[Tagamogi]

You can't force people to group in a dungeon, but you can force them to go to the dungeon, and that's half the battle. When I go to a lower level dungeon, I switch to whatever skills are most level appropriate; I have three builds, one level 75/75, one level 50/50, the other level 25/25. It's just as likely a high level player switches to a level-appropriate build and joins a group as steamrolling the dungeon. And, for the record, If I wanted to steamroll a level 50 dungeon, like we have been discussing, I would prefer to do it in a group with level other 50 players rather than alone as a level 75; it would make it go much faster in a group, and the players may enjoy the power leveling.

I'd cynically assume that most people would pick whatever takes the least time and effort, in particular if it involves something they perceive as a repetitive chore, e.g. if the only way to get more diamonds was to go the bottom of the yeti cave and they'd have to do it every couple weeks in order to do the content they actually want to do.

You are right that PG players generally seem rather social, so I'd expect a fair number of level 75 folks to be happy to let lower levels tag along, and I'd expect a lot of lower levels to be happy to do so. To me, following along and looting stuff someone else killed sounds super boring though.



You are lucky you have a friend to play with; if you didn't, maybe you would have approached the other people to group?

Unlikely. I played for over a year before my friend came back to the game, and the only time I recall grouping then was to rescue an enterprising newbie who had given Elmetaph the wrong coordinates and ended up in Rahu when trying to reach Serbule from Gazluk. There was stuff in the game I wanted and couldn't get by myself - ice magic and those Winter Nexus recipes come to mind - but I figured I'd eventually be able to get them through my own efforts and in the meantime I had plenty of other stuff I could do.

I think part of it was just that it never felt there were people my level. Most of the population seemed at max level when I started, and I never quite caught up, especially since my general playstyle involves switching combat skills whenever I get close to max in one set of skills.



That to me, seems askew. Why not ask what they were doing, try to join up with them? I always like a full zone and playing with others. That seems weird to me to want to leave because the zone was populated.

Well, in general I'm a highly antisocial person who possibly shouldn't play multi-player games. :) My friend is less antisocial, but in this particular case we'd spent a lot of time planning out our 2-person ogre strategy and we didn't want other people either making it too easy or dragging us down.

We've grouped up with other people on occasion when we were just in a dungeon to kill random stuff and while it's been ok, it's always felt slightly awkward to me. My friend and I communicate via Discord, so if someone else joins, we get to type and slow down. ( Technically, we could also spend some time trying to find a common Discord server, but that seems like a lot of effort for a random stranger who may only be grouped with us for 30 minutes.) We've also had some minor issues with needing to change our loot rules. It's nothing that can't be overcome, but if we already have a setup that works great, why fiddle with it? Which is of course where the idea of forcing people to group up comes in...

I realize my opposition to grouping is rather counterproductive. In WoW, I spent years playing with some very good friends whom I all met by saying "oh, why not" to a level 10 pickup group. The friend I am playing with now is from my EQ days when my husband found him in another random pickup group. So, objectively, grouping with random strangers can work out great but ... it still doesn't make me want to do it.

I'm rather on the far end of the anti-grouping spectrum, so I don't know if my feelings are generally applicable, but it may be worth noting that the reason I quit EQ for WoW was very much that I was loathing EQ for forcing me to group for every single thing I wanted to try.

Anyway, I think it does make sense to have incentives and rewards for grouping. I'm just objecting to the "forcing" idea. In my opinion, people should want to group because it's fun and rewarding, not because the alternative is not being able to do anything worthwhile in the game.



If you are worried about competition over mobs, well, you're going to hate the steam launch.

I know I will. :D It's ok, I know we need them to keep the game running.



"An adjustment in spawn rates to the number of players around would also make things more exciting"

This, to me, is instancing and a reason I would quit playing, as much as that would suck.
Even if it's just stuff like spawning mobs faster, so there is enough to keep 3 groups instead of 2 occupied in the same area?

I personally like the idea of being able to do something with 0-10 other people and still have the content be roughly equally challenging and rewarding. It may not be practically obtainable since the more people you add, the more level, gear and skill varies, but I really hate scenarios where a game tells me "oh, you can't do this content because you only have 5 people instead of 6" or "oh you can't do this because the friend you want to group with is a rogue instead of a cleric."

[Roekai]

Even if it's just stuff like spawning mobs faster, so there is enough to keep 3 groups instead of 2 occupied in the same area?

I personally like the idea of being able to do something with 0-10 other people and still have the content be roughly equally challenging and rewarding. It may not be practically obtainable since the more people you add, the more level, gear and skill varies, but I really hate scenarios where a game tells me "oh, you can't do this content because you only have 5 people instead of 6" or "oh you can't do this because the friend you want to group with is a rogue instead of a cleric."

any sort of adjustment, even in the slightest way would cause me to cease playing forever.

the world is static and the players are the variable; the world is not the variable, there are not two variables, there is one variable. otherwise, fuck it all to hell.

[Tagamogi]

Hm. You could argue that the world is already adjusting itself by spawning mobs faster if players bury them. Are you ok with that because that is based on actual player actions rather than just a certain number of players being in the area? What if respawn rates were based on how fast mobs in the area were getting killed?

Sorry if my questions sound dumb, I'm trying to wrap my mind properly around the concept. I think I get part of it since I don't like single player games that constantly scale either - there doesn't seem to me much point in leveling up if the mobs just get harder. So, in this case, there's not much point in bringing more people since the game would try to present the same experience to you regardless? Making the world seem less real? Eliminating the fun of getting the right people into your group?

[Crissa]

Grouping is kind of awkward right now, but you get less xp going on your own.

Not just spillover.

So there's no reason not to group, even if the newbie is just soloing adds on the side or stripping the corpses. It's all xp.